Anyone added a coolant filter?

[hear]

after reading through this thread the primary takeaway is that nobody has offered any evidence of why running one is bad. I get that the OEM cooling system was flawlessly engineered & implemented, that point has been made clear in a great many threads. But what is the science behind not needing one? We are supposed to flush our systems periodically, why is that? Is it to remove crap from the system? Wouldn't a filter also do that? Or is there some other reason for the flush that doesn't involve crap that a filter would catch? Do filters create a flow problem? These are the questions we should be asking if we want a good answer to the coolant filter question.

I have no idea if they are good/bad/necessary/unnecessary, but It does seem like a scientific approach would be helpful here. Just saying "most people don't have them so it must be fine" is certainly a useful data point but its more of a correlation and less of a causation, and doesn't give anybody a solid reason for using or not using one.

I'm just saying.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

after reading through this thread the primary takeaway is that nobody has offered any evidence of why running one is bad. I get that the OEM cooling system was flawlessly engineered & implemented, that point has been made clear in a great many threads. But what is the science behind not needing one? We are supposed to flush our systems periodically, why is that? Is it to remove crap from the system? Wouldn't a filter also do that? Or is there some other reason for the flush that doesn't involve crap that a filter would catch? Do filters create a flow problem? These are the questions we should be asking if we want a good answer to the coolant filter question.

I have no idea if they are good/bad/necessary/unnecessary, but It does seem like a scientific approach would be helpful here. Just saying "most people don't have them so it must be fine" is certainly a useful data point but its more of a correlation and less of a causation, and doesn't give anybody a solid reason for using or not using one.

I'm just saying.

We're just saying a coolant filter is not needed which is why you don't see them in cars and trucks... some diesels excluded. But if you want to install one it's your $$$.

 

[mrblaine]

after reading through this thread the primary takeaway is that nobody has offered any evidence of why running one is bad. I get that the OEM cooling system was flawlessly engineered & implemented, that point has been made clear in a great many threads. But what is the science behind not needing one? We are supposed to flush our systems periodically, why is that? Is it to remove crap from the system? Wouldn't a filter also do that? Or is there some other reason for the flush that doesn't involve crap that a filter would catch? Do filters create a flow problem? These are the questions we should be asking if we want a good answer to the coolant filter question.

I have no idea if they are good/bad/necessary/unnecessary, but It does seem like a scientific approach would be helpful here. Just saying "most people don't have them so it must be fine" is certainly a useful data point but its more of a correlation and less of a causation, and doesn't give anybody a solid reason for using or not using one.

I'm just saying.

It is really as simple as solving a problem and if you don't have the problem then you don't need the solution. Diesels in tow rigs for some are very picky about coolant and letting it get out of spec is a good way to ruin a high dollar motor.

We don't see the same cautions in the FSM about checking the coolant with test strips to make sure it is within spec to maintain the life expectancy of the motor.

We don't see or hear about large areas of cavitated or eroded away sections of the block, coolant passages, water pumps, thermostat housings or radiators. If there was any electrolysis, cavitation or corrosion happening in a well maintained system, it would certainly be well documented with as many cooling system overhauls that are done and dissected with info on here and myriad other forums.

In point of fact in all of my years on the forums, this is the single time I've seen reference to a coolant filter and the ensuing bullshit justifications. I put this in the same piece of shit category with the folks who added remote filters to their auto transmissions.

I may have never thought that way until I saw the filter on an AW-4. Once you see one of them and understand that the AW-4 is a reliable fairly bullet proof 200,000 mile trans, then the rest starts to make some sense.

Yep, that little piece of screen is the filter.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DHXQMQ8/?tag=wranglerorg-20

 

[hear]

Fair enough, but I guess then I don't understand why we all recommend flushing the coolant system periodically. What are we looking to solve/prevent by doing that?

 

[machoheadgames]

The fact that the video is by nickintime tells me everything I need to know. That moron years ago took a super 35 locker, pressed on some carrier bearings and slapped it into his Dana 35 with no gear setup whatsoever. Then when shit hit the fan on that one, he got rid of the "piece of shit Dana 35" and got a Dana 44 or 8.8 (I don't remember). The comments following the Dana 35 video were hilariously ignorant, shit talking the 35 about how terrible it is. Well no shit sherlock, your precious Dana 44/8.8 would do exactly the same thing if you just slap in a carrier with no setup whatsoever. Just pure fucking ignorance and his XJ audience ate it right up.

That was years ago like this coolant filter video, so maybe by now he's better, or at least I'd hope so. But considering this video came from the same time frame he did the Dana 35 bullshit, I take no interest in his coolant filter idea.

That, and a coolant filter is not needed at all. Scale/rust builds up on the surfaces of a motor, it's not floating around in the coolant and needing to be filtered out. The purpose of a periodic drain and fill is to keep the fluid in good shape for cooling duties before it gets old and breaks down. Usually flushing needs to be done on cooling systems that have been neglected. If they're drained and filled every few years, usually you don't really need to do anything but that and replace parts when the time comes, like a bad water pump or whatever.

 

[mrblaine]

Fair enough, but I guess then I don't understand why we all recommend flushing the coolant system periodically. What are we looking to solve/prevent by doing that?

All coolant has additives in it for specific duties. Lubrication of seals, anti-corrosion, etc. along with increasing boiling point and lowering freeze points. Over time, those get depleted and need to be replenished. As stated, the rust and scale around floating around in the coolant and need to be filtered out, they are happening on the walls of the coolant passages.

Lest we forget, the walls of the tubes in the radiators are very thin. If we had an electrolysis issue that a sacrificial anode would prevent, they would not last very long at all. Not specifically what we were talking about but just another point that the system pretty much has all of the problems solved very well.

 

[Chris]

We arent all rich like you some of us buy un mixed because I dont like paying that much for water

As long as you're not using tap water

Also, I'm not even close to being "rich". Not even close...

 

[tworley]

I haven't been keeping up with the price of distilled water but my last 4-5 gallons were $0.88/gallon

 

[rancholago]

I don't run a coolant filter on my TJ but do run one on my 6 liter PSD (that is a whole other can of worms) It does seem to me, if you wanted to run a filter on the coolant, why not, I can't see where It would really hurt any thing. If you find it obstructs/plugs up or any other problems you could remove it. I would watch it closely and go from there.
I find that personally I tend to over do on these kinds of things.

 

[jeepguy03]

I don't run a coolant filter on my TJ but do run one on my 6 liter PSD (that is a whole other can or worms) It does seem to me, if you wanted to run a filter on the coolant, why not, I can't see where It would really hurt any thing. If you find it obstructs/plugs up or any other problems you could remove it. I would watch it closely and go from there.
I find that personally I tend to over do on these kinds of things.

Installing one won't hurt anything, especially if put in-line with the heater hoses it won't restrict flow. I agree with Jerry that for the most part they aren't needed. I never had one on any of my other Jeeps, but I also had a better base to start with cooling system wise. I changed/flushed the coolant in my previous XJ every 30k or 3 years and never had a problem.

With this Jeep, I've done so many flushes only to see rust a few hundred miles later. My guess is that someone used tap water, the coolant degraded and rusted the inside of the block, or any number of things. For me the small cost was worth it because it keeps my cooling system clean, and changing the filter and draining the coolant is much less of a pain in the ass then flushing it who knows how many more times until it is somewhat clean.

For the people commenting on nickintime's video, he does do a lot of stuff on the cheap, but the reason he installed a filter was a PO put stop leak in his Jeep, and that is probably the only way to keep it clean after that, since that crap gets everywhere.

 

[jeepguy03]

Here is the filter setup I have on mine. After a few flushes, Installed one of those mesh screen filters inline with the heater hose. It plugged up after about 10 miles of driving.

Here is my coolant filter, mounted to a bracket I made that attaches to the battery tray:

After ~1500 miles I cut open the filter, every one of the filter pleats was full of junk:

For shits and giggles I put the screen back in place of the filter (just put it in place of the heater core circuit for a day) and the coolant stayed clean for a 25 mile drive:

 

[mrblaine]

Installing one won't hurt anything, especially if put in-line with the heater hoses it won't restrict flow. I agree with Jerry that for the most part they aren't needed. I never had one on any of my other Jeeps, but I also had a better base to start with cooling system wise. I changed/flushed the coolant in my previous XJ every 30k or 3 years and never had a problem.

With this Jeep, I've done so many flushes only to see rust a few hundred miles later. My guess is that someone used tap water, the coolant degraded and rusted the inside of the block, or any number of things. For me the small cost was worth it because it keeps my cooling system clean, and changing the filter and draining the coolant is much less of a pain in the ass then flushing it who knows how many more times until it is somewhat clean.

For the people commenting on nickintime's video, he does do a lot of stuff on the cheap, but the reason he installed a filter was a PO put stop leak in his Jeep, and that is probably the only way to keep it clean after that, since that crap gets everywhere.

If you actually do a proper flush, you don't have any rust left in the system for the filter to catch.

 

[jeepguy03]

If you actually do a proper flush, you don't have any rust left in the system for the filter to catch.

Do you have a recommendation for a chemical to use? I flushed using the Prestone kit, as well as the tool that hooks to the garden hose/air compressor to pulse air through the block with the block drain under the exhaust manifold open.

 

[mrblaine]

Do you have a recommendation for a chemical to use? I flushed using the Prestone kit, as well as the tool that hooks to the garden hose/air compressor to pulse air through the block with the block drain under the exhaust manifold open.

Use the Prestone drive around for 3 days and then do it with Thermocure.

 

[jeepguy03]

Use the Prestone drive around for 3 days and then do it with Thermocure.

Thanks, never heard of the Thermocure I'll try that.

 

[pc1p]

Fair enough, but I guess then I don't understand why we all recommend flushing the coolant system periodically. What are we looking to solve/prevent by doing that?

Blaine already touched on this but I'll touch on it some more...

The first reason to drain and flush antifreeze is about chelators, which are chemical compounds with lots of "fingers". These fingers can reach out and grab (molecularly) to dissolved metal ions. Chelators keep metal ions from forming other metallic compounds, (such as reacting with oxygen and forming rust). Once all the "fingers" have a captured metal ions and there are no more free fingers, the capacity to chelate any free ions is stopped and then you begin to get into issues.

Second reason, though not a primary reason, is pH. Iron will have passivity when pH is <7 (at 0mV potential) - see the pourbaix diagram below. As coolant is used and time passes on, pH will naturally drop (become more acidic) due to diffusion of CO2 through rubber gaskets, hoses, etc. as well as from exhaust gas diffusion (around head gaskets for example). A 50/50 mix will buffer nicely around pH 8.3 (I'll have to check pKa charts to confirm but this seems accurate off the top of my head) but if it goes on for too long, you can get pH <7, which brings the mixture into the Fe++ corrosion range. These Fe ions will be chelated but available chelants will quickly be consumed.

The final reason is the surfactants. Surfactants reduce surface tension and allow water to flow smoothly across the surfaces of the engine, radiator, etc. (this increases thermal transfer). So as these surfactants break down, they turn into other compounds that don't have the same effect, which reduces thermal transfer.

The main reason that I see why antifreeze filters are of little to no value is because filters don't do anything but capture particulates. Unless you're having so many precipitates form that they're clogging the radiator (or heater core), they do nothing but add a restriction and do nothing to restore chelants, buffer pH, add surfactants, etc.

 

[custommuffler]

Our Wranglers need a coolant filter as much as they do a throttle body spacer, 20" wheels, red-painted tow hooks, hood mounted Hi-Lift jacks, chrome grill overlays, and angry bird grills. Some people love and need things like that, I certainly don't.

Never got the angry dork grill. I like the factory look. My Jeep also did not come stock with an 800 dollar Griffen rad either. Wonder why the engineers and bean counters did not install one. Wonder since those engineers know so much, just why in the PHUC did they install a Dana 35 and think that would be ok on any level to include just rolling in a straight line?

 

[machoheadgames]

Never got the angry dork grill. I like the factory look. My Jeep also did not come stock with an 800 dollar Griffen rad either. Wonder why the engineers and bean counters did not install one. Wonder since those engineers know so much, just why in the PHUC did they install a Dana 35 and think that would be ok on any level to include just rolling in a straight line?

That makes a lot of sense. Install a Dana 44 for every single TJ even though the vast majority live on the street on stock 29-30” tires and never break the 35.

Seriously, how many D35s do you know of that broke in bone stock form? Me personally, 0.

 

[custommuffler]

"Tell me you don't know shit about chemistry, without telling me you don't know shit about chemistry"

I know obviously more than you. In fact, my personal first hand experience dictates such.

 

[custommuffler]

That makes a lot of sense. Install a Dana 44 for every single TJ even though the vast majority live on the street on stock 29-30” tires and never break the 35.

Seriously, how many D35s do you know of that broke in bone stock form? Me personally, 0.

For me personally in my `99? 3, to be exact thats when I upped to a 44. And to be clear, this Jeep has never sen a dirt road much less a mud hole or a rock.
And yes, a rear Dana 44 should have come stock. PERIOD!