Dudes, this JK thing...

[RINC]

I’m the worst for fun at the expense of others -

As a proper southerner you can never lift yourself up- you put others down, then say “bless their heart.” Like “@John Cooper is a duck toting pervert, bless his heart.” The word bless gets you a pass into heaven later is what we are counting on.

Truthfully, there are several dynamics going on-

With me, I like to poke fun of percieved or cultural differences- but more importantly I’m pointing at marketing strategy- in truth the success of the JK is totally because Jeep saw a new market - just like Harley Davidson did . And boy did that throw some people a curve. Amidst the heresy of change, we have to remember companies that don’t do that are often destined to fail. The landscape is littered with solid companies that failed or nearly did because they failed to adapt or adapted too slow - Schwinn, Buck knives nearly did , Wilson sporting goods, K-Mart, Sears, Big K, Hardees, JC Penny, and countless others.

To sell more of anything to the public you have to cater to the norm-and invariably the new is evil, soft and likely to lead you down a path of shame and disgrace, maybe you will end up doing things in the shadows you wouldn’t want your friends and family to know. The end is always heroin and homelessness.

The first jeep guys in big numbers were likely the CJ era guys- they smoked camels, hunted, fished, had a wife and 2 girlfriends and wore English Leather- they were men among men. There are remnants of that era still around. They would scoff at our fluffy coil spring, air conditioned, automatic transmission and reclining seat TJ world.

And here we are , with most of our posts geared around keeping them alive or fixing what someone did trying to “improve” them and staunchly defending the “last real jeep” as the 4 door crowds the highways and eclipses every civilian jeep sold to date combined in sales.

Also, to be really honest, there are many, many seriously built Jks and Jls, done by seriously capable owners.

The old eventually has to give way to the new, it is often just the ego, the pride and money invested in the old that has to be defended or people would then have to admit maybe something is better, maybe someone is smarter or just maybe they have more money or make better decisions. This is all said knowing there are strong arguments for views on all models. And I know for a fact many guys here can afford either- some of us have enough in Tjs to want to hide it from the government and some guys have both Tjs and the Jk/Jl/JT. My case is it would be fun to have one, but I have so much invested in what I have I really just don’t want to try to convince my wife to go along with it as she stands there and says “ok, sell those others then meathead”.



The sheer numbers of Jks sold make some weaknesses a little more evident, the power to weight ratio is less than stellar like the TJ, the track bar/coil spring suspension is sensitive to change just like ours, and anything made after 2006 inherently has more technology-
All that said it is one of the greatest automotive successes of our lifetimes, seats four comfortably plus cargo and drives great.

And the TJ is a fun, simpler platform that endears itself to owners as well.

As a whole the TJ does attract a crowd that is quicker to wrench, liable to get junior out of school to help install a lift, is likely predominantly male, would likely out drink and out cuss the competition and doesn’t want to get involved with any of their goofiness like angry bird grills and ducking each other . Bless their hearts.

I can tell you, I found a rubber ducky on the ground when I stopped to close a gate. Imagine to my surprise apon finding this here rubber ducky, who I think would most need to get rubber duckied.

 

[AndyG]

Did you just quote yoself?!!

I’ve tried to report myself several times.

 

[FJQue]

As a proper southerner you can never lift yourself up- you put others down, then say “bless their heart.” Yep, originally from Louisiana. I can surely say, "Awe, that BAMA guy doesn't know if he likes elephants or ocean waves, bless his heart" - haha, jkjk

With me, I like to poke fun of percieved or cultural differences- but more importantly I’m pointing at marketing strategy- in truth the success of the JK is totally because Jeep saw a new market - just like Harley Davidson did - Yeah, and I really think it'll be fun to drive if i can ever get it back on the road..

The end is always heroin and homelessness. - You must be from the 80s as well, this is exactly what failure looks like in my head

And here we are , with most of our posts geared around keeping them alive or fixing what someone did trying to “improve” them and staunchly defending the “last real jeep” as the 4 door crowds the highways and eclipses every civilian jeep sold to date combined in sales. - True.

And I know for a fact many guys here can afford either- I'm in a discovery phase..

And the TJ is a fun, simpler platform that endears itself to owners as well - Will never disagree here, though i kind wanna try to build a FJ-40, bu that's
irrelevant

As a whole the TJ does attract a crowd that is quicker to wrench - And I hear ya! I guess I just presumed that by me waiting 15 years before purchasing my first JK that some of those guys would be wrenching by now. In all seriousness, I know there are quality players on both forums, it just kind of took me by surprise at how different the 2 were at first glances.

 

[72afr]

I had to laugh at this, as we also have a JK.
Yes, that forum is quite different than this one, but to be fair, there's far less that needs to be upgraded/repaired on the JK, simply since it is so much newer.
In our case, we have an '03 TJ SE & a '15 JKU Rubicon.

When things start failing on the JK's owners will adjust.

This is so very true. We just became a 2 Jeep household again this summer with the purchase of a 2019 JLUR for Mrs. 72afr. There just isn't anything wrong with it that I need to fix, aside from connectivity or cosmetic additions. The biggest issues seem to be electronics and batteries. Most of the stuff I'm searching on this site is for repairs or upgrades to my '04 TJR that I just don't need to do on the JLUR because it already has it or doesn't need it. Trying to justify all of the lift components and gearing to fit 33's on mine, while I just look at the stock JLUR and try to figure out which 35's would be best to order.

I’m the worst for fun at the expense of others -

As a proper southerner you can never lift yourself up- you put others down, then say “bless their heart.” Like “@John Cooper is a duck toting pervert, bless his heart.” The word bless gets you a pass into heaven later is what we are counting on.

Truthfully, there are several dynamics going on-

With me, I like to poke fun of percieved or cultural differences- but more importantly I’m pointing at marketing strategy- in truth the success of the JK is totally because Jeep saw a new market - just like Harley Davidson did . And boy did that throw some people a curve. Amidst the heresy of change, we have to remember companies that don’t do that are often destined to fail. The landscape is littered with solid companies that failed or nearly did because they failed to adapt or adapted too slow - Schwinn, Buck knives nearly did , Wilson sporting goods, K-Mart, Sears, Big K, Hardees, JC Penny, and countless others.

To sell more of anything to the public you have to cater to the norm-and invariably the new is evil, soft and likely to lead you down a path of shame and disgrace, maybe you will end up doing things in the shadows you wouldn’t want your friends and family to know. The end is always heroin and homelessness.

The first jeep guys in big numbers were likely the CJ era guys- they smoked camels, hunted, fished, had a wife and 2 girlfriends and wore English Leather- they were men among men. There are remnants of that era still around. They would scoff at our fluffy coil spring, air conditioned, automatic transmission and reclining seat TJ world.

And here we are , with most of our posts geared around keeping them alive or fixing what someone did trying to “improve” them and staunchly defending the “last real jeep” as the 4 door crowds the highways and eclipses every civilian jeep sold to date combined in sales.

Also, to be really honest, there are many, many seriously built Jks and Jls, done by seriously capable owners.

The old eventually has to give way to the new, it is often just the ego, the pride and money invested in the old that has to be defended or people would then have to admit maybe something is better, maybe someone is smarter or just maybe they have more money or make better decisions. This is all said knowing there are strong arguments for views on all models. And I know for a fact many guys here can afford either- some of us have enough in Tjs to want to hide it from the government and some guys have both Tjs and the Jk/Jl/JT. My case is it would be fun to have one, but I have so much invested in what I have I really just don’t want to try to convince my wife to go along with it as she stands there and says “ok, sell those others then meathead”.



The sheer numbers of Jks sold make some weaknesses a little more evident, the power to weight ratio is less than stellar like the TJ, the track bar/coil spring suspension is sensitive to change just like ours, and anything made after 2006 inherently has more technology-
All that said it is one of the greatest automotive successes of our lifetimes, seats four comfortably plus cargo and drives great.

And the TJ is a fun, simpler platform that endears itself to owners as well.

As a whole the TJ does attract a crowd that is quicker to wrench, liable to get junior out of school to help install a lift, is likely predominantly male, would likely out drink and out cuss the competition and doesn’t want to get involved with any of their goofiness like angry bird grills and ducking each other . Bless their hearts.

I think you hit the nail on the head here too. I grew up in my parent's CJ7, as it was my mom's daily until I was in high school. It's what I learned to drive a manual in and just helped Dad take to the hardtop off earlier this summer. It's been in my family longer than I have and is what I knew as a Jeep. Many a night we'd be cruising around when I was little and scoff at the YJ's and TJ's as they came out. They weren't "real" Jeeps. I about lost my 17 year old mind when the LJ came out. What the hell are they doing?!? Then the JKU came out and my jaw hit the floor. Here is the end of the iconic Jeep. Nice knowing ya.

Fast forward a half dozen years and I'm bringing our second son home in the back of our TJ. Now, I don't have the numbers, but even though the exterior dimensions are roughly the same, the interior of the CJ7 has more space than the TJ. Call it government overreach or whatever, but it's damn difficult and uncomfortable with a toddler seat and infant seat in the back of a TJ, never mind where you put all of their tagalongs. Anyone who says otherwise should be eyed carefully. This doesn't play out well for those looking for TJ Wrangler as a daily (which I'd argue would've been the main reason to buy one new) and haul a family. Looking back now, it's easy to see why Jeep introduced the LJ and then the 4door to access the rear space. It's a natural progression to stay alive and sell units against the rise of the SUV. Even still, I swore to everyone I know that I'd never own a 4 door Wrangler. They weren't real Jeeps. Damn oversized minivans. Bastardization of the brand. I'm too "old school" for that.

And now I own one. There's no denying the appeal the 4 door has when you're hauling a family, or anything for that matter. The 33.5" in gained overall from the TJ length gives the second row more leg room than the wife's old Yukon and easily triple the cargo room of my TJ. The ride is better. The convenience is better. The comfort is better. It's far more capable than my TJ is when comparing both to stock configurations. And better gas mileage to top it all off. While the 4 doors help highlight this better, I'm sure most of it can still be said for the 2 door JL as well. They're all made for a different time and as much as we want to claim our TJ's as the last great Jeep, the JK's and JL's are all products of their predecessors shortcomings in today's world. As noted above, they just don't need as much help or attention and so the people looking to actually do stuff to their Jeep wind up down the cosmetic paths.

That said, I won't be selling off my TJ anytime soon, and I'm still making plans to acquire the CJ7. Eventually the kids won't be around and all of the above benefits won't matter as much anymore. But until then, I'll keep scouring this forum to keep the TJ alive and laughing at the superficial posts on the JL forum as they don't know the struggle yet.

 

[AndyG]

This is so very true. We just became a 2 Jeep household again this summer with the purchase of a 2019 JLUR for Mrs. 72afr. There just isn't anything wrong with it that I need to fix, aside from connectivity or cosmetic additions. The biggest issues seem to be electronics and batteries. Most of the stuff I'm searching on this site is for repairs or upgrades to my '04 TJR that I just don't need to do on the JLUR because it already has it or doesn't need it. Trying to justify all of the lift components and gearing to fit 33's on mine, while I just look at the stock JLUR and try to figure out which 35's would be best to order.

I think you hit the nail on the head here too. I grew up in my parent's CJ7, as it was my mom's daily until I was in high school. It's what I learned to drive a manual in and just helped Dad take to the hardtop off earlier this summer. It's been in my family longer than I have and is what I knew as a Jeep. Many a night we'd be cruising around when I was little and scoff at the YJ's and TJ's as they came out. They weren't "real" Jeeps. I about lost my 17 year old mind when the LJ came out. What the hell are they doing?!? Then the JKU came out and my jaw hit the floor. Here is the end of the iconic Jeep. Nice knowing ya.

Fast forward a half dozen years and I'm bringing our second son home in the back of our TJ. Now, I don't have the numbers, but even though the exterior dimensions are roughly the same, the interior of the CJ7 has more space than the TJ. Call it government overreach or whatever, but it's damn difficult and uncomfortable with a toddler seat and infant seat in the back of a TJ, never mind where you put all of their tagalongs. Anyone who says otherwise should be eyed carefully. This doesn't play out well for those looking for TJ Wrangler as a daily (which I'd argue would've been the main reason to buy one new) and haul a family. Looking back now, it's easy to see why Jeep introduced the LJ and then the 4door to access the rear space. It's a natural progression to stay alive and sell units against the rise of the SUV. Even still, I swore to everyone I know that I'd never own a 4 door Wrangler. They weren't real Jeeps. Damn oversized minivans. Bastardization of the brand. I'm too "old school" for that.

And now I own one. There's no denying the appeal the 4 door has when you're hauling a family, or anything for that matter. The 33.5" in gained overall from the TJ length gives the second row more leg room than the wife's old Yukon and easily triple the cargo room of my TJ. The ride is better. The convenience is better. The comfort is better. It's far more capable than my TJ is when comparing both to stock configurations. And better gas mileage to top it all off. While the 4 doors help highlight this better, I'm sure most of it can still be said for the 2 door JL as well. They're all made for a different time and as much as we want to claim our TJ's as the last great Jeep, the JK's and JL's are all products of their predecessors shortcomings in today's world. As noted above, they just don't need as much help or attention and so the people looking to actually do stuff to their Jeep wind up down the cosmetic paths.

That said, I won't be selling off my TJ anytime soon, and I'm still making plans to acquire the CJ7. Eventually the kids won't be around and all of the above benefits won't matter as much anymore. But until then, I'll keep scouring this forum to keep the TJ alive and laughing at the superficial posts on the JL forum as they don't know the struggle yet.
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For those that remember it is remarkable how much roomier the CJ interior was- It just didn’t have anything but seats, belts and mat, I think the console was about seat level -

I can tell you I was pretty much in love with the entire CJ package - In music terms it was just a guitar plugged into the amplifier, As basic as you could get.

I thought that I was going to get another one when I started thinking about Jeeps and realized pretty quick the challenges of even finding a nice one- The TJ gave me the look and I had no complaints about the rest of the package- Given the options.

 

[TRE3TOP]

For those that remember it is remarkable how much roomier the CJ interior was- It just didn’t have anything but seats, belts and mat, I think the console was about seat level -

I can tell you I was pretty much in love with the entire CJ package - In music terms it was just a guitar plugged into the amplifier, As basic as you could get.

I thought that I was going to get another one when I started thinking about Jeeps and realized pretty quick the challenges of even finding a nice one- The TJ gave me the look and I had no complaints about the rest of the package- Given the options.

The final piece of the puzzle for me will be some sort of flat dash getting rid of the stock plastic.

 

[AndyG]

The final piece of the puzzle for me will be some sort of flat dash getting rid of the stock plastic.

If you’re referring to the TJ Dash- I honestly try not to look at it too close- And the reason I say that is it really doesn’t even fit into the concept that great and pretty much looks like a small truck dash in a jeep-

I just try to live with it but it really doesn’t do anything for the vehicle in terms of space or attractiveness- And basically white Jeep owners like is a dash that looks interesting and looks either military like or something in a jet cockpit- It needs to look like you’re at the wheel of something unique and special- Of course it’s really easy for me to have all the answers 26 plus years post design

 

[InOmaha]

All I know is the TJ has too many options for my tastes.

I bought an LJ after looking for months for a Scrambler and missing out on several.

 

[Zorba]

If you’re referring to the TJ Dash- I honestly try not to look at it too close- And the reason I say that is it really doesn’t even fit into the concept that great and pretty much looks like a small truck dash in a jeep-

I just try to live with it but it really doesn’t do anything for the vehicle in terms of space or attractiveness- And basically white Jeep owners like is a dash that looks interesting and looks either military like or something in a jet cockpit- It needs to look like you’re at the wheel of something unique and special- Of course it’s really easy for me to have all the answers 26 plus years post design

Its VERY hard to customize the thing - if it were the old flat style, you could put switches and gauges any/everywhere. This plastic-fantastic, not so much. Thank Goddess for this forum!

 

[FJQue]

All I know is the TJ has too many options for my tastes.

I bought an LJ after looking for months for a Scrambler and missing out on several.

CJs are the only ones I haven’t driven. They look fun for other reasons though the axle lengths look sketchy, that can be changed though..

 

[Mike_H]

I think its weird that people refer to my 04 as an "older jeep" now. Just a couple weeks ago, my wife had a few girlfriends over and I was doing waxing it or some fool excuse to spend time on it. One of them came in and said, oh, my husband has an older jeep like that. His is a 78 (or something...it was a CJ7 I later found out).

Its not even 20 years old, but it LOOKS like an original, vs the JK and especially the JL. Not that they are bad looking (well, the JL anyway) but they don't have the classic "jeep" look like the TJ does.

 

[72afr]

I think its weird that people refer to my 04 as an "older jeep" now. Just a couple weeks ago, my wife had a few girlfriends over and I was doing waxing it or some fool excuse to spend time on it. One of them came in and said, oh, my husband has an older jeep like that. His is a 78 (or something...it was a CJ7 I later found out).

Its not even 20 years old, but it LOOKS like an original, vs the JK and especially the JL. Not that they are bad looking (well, the JL anyway) but they don't have the classic "jeep" look like the TJ does.

I think the overall size has a lot to do with it. Our TJs have mostly carried over the same dimensions and styles from the CJ7. The new ones are huge in comparison. Plus the new creature comforts and electronics available today makes our TJs look dated.

I'm glad you mentioned the JL doesn't look bad. I wanted to say it above, but I'm long winded enough. No matter how much I try, I cannot bring myself to like the JK. I can't pinpoint the reason either. It's just... All of it.

 

[AndyG]

I think the overall size has a lot to do with it. Our TJs have mostly carried over the same dimensions and styles from the CJ7. The new ones are huge in comparison. Plus the new creature comforts and electronics available today makes our TJs look dated.

I'm glad you mentioned the JL doesn't look bad. I wanted to say it above, but I'm long winded enough. No matter how much I try, I cannot bring myself to like the JK. I can't pinpoint the reason either. It's just... All of it.

A TJ really looks small going down the road , especially on stock wheels/tires- the JK wheelbase is 4” wider -

Side by side you can really tell the difference- a TJ is just not a big vehicle- At the same time you get it off road and you can absolutely thread the needle, especially if you have lockers to help hold your line-a jk is a bus off road.

 

[Rick Flair]

I think the overall size has a lot to do with it. Our TJs have mostly carried over the same dimensions and styles from the CJ7. The new ones are huge in comparison. Plus the new creature comforts and electronics available today makes our TJs look dated.

I'm glad you mentioned the JL doesn't look bad. I wanted to say it above, but I'm long winded enough. No matter how much I try, I cannot bring myself to like the JK. I can't pinpoint the reason either. It's just... All of it.

It’s funny cause I was looking for a LJR. Have had CJ’s, YJ’s and TJ’s!

Long story short, I said I’d never own a four door wrangler. It was dumb.

Well now I just bought one. The JL’s are awesome! I really like what they did. Hell if my wife said sell the 4Runner and buy me a JL, I would. Today. Esprit they had a 5.7 hemi.


But I bought a JK. I hated them too. It didn’t scream Jeep to me. It still sorta doesn’t. BUT….I found the perfect family rig. And MOTECH offers a complete LS motor swap that makes it perfect to drive in to a GM dealer for issues. I like that. Even though I won’t go there, I like the knowledge.

 

[RINC]

It’s funny cause I was looking for a LJR. Have had CJ’s, YJ’s and TJ’s!

Long story short, I said I’d never own a four door wrangler. It was dumb.

Well now I just bought one. The JL’s are awesome! I really like what they did. Hell if my wife said sell the 4Runner and buy me a JL, I would. Today. Esprit they had a 5.7 hemi.


But I bought a JK. I hated them too. It didn’t scream Jeep to me. It still sorta doesn’t. BUT….I found the perfect family rig. And MOTECH offers a complete LS motor swap that makes it perfect to drive in to a GM dealer for issues. I like that. Even though I won’t go there, I like the knowledge.

I wonder if the Holley EFI can completely cure the whole GM to Jeep compatibility issue.

 

[FJQue]

It’s funny cause I was looking for a LJR. Have had CJ’s, YJ’s and TJ’s!

Long story short, I said I’d never own a four door wrangler. It was dumb.

Well now I just bought one. The JL’s are awesome! I really like what they did. Hell if my wife said sell the 4Runner and buy me a JL, I would. Today. Esprit they had a 5.7 hemi.


But I bought a JK. I hated them too. It didn’t scream Jeep to me. It still sorta doesn’t. BUT….I found the perfect family rig. And MOTECH offers a complete LS motor swap that makes it perfect to drive in to a GM dealer for issues. I like that. Even though I won’t go there, I like the knowledge.

I was shopping for an LJ as well, Rubicon would of been a plus but I really wanted the room and auto trans so my wife could drive it. I ended up with a 4 door JK with 3.6. I really liked the way it runs and brakes. I also really enjoyed the 22-23 mpg I averaged on my 800 mile trip home in it. That's the best gas mileage in my stall currently! Getting that thing was like getting a fun Prius, haha.

 

[Rick Flair]

I wonder if the Holley EFI can completely cure the whole GM to Jeep compatibility issue.

It would be interesting if they could! Motech isn’t cheap by any means!

 

[JeepZilla380]

Our Forum has so much testosterone, it has caused several young members to go through early puberty.

@Chris , I am worried about the effect this forum might have on our female members?!?

 

[Chris]

@Chris , I am worried about the effect this forum might have on our female members?!?

What female members?

 

[machoheadgames]

On the local FB group every single post about any issue is met with a knee-jerk set of responses about taking it to one of the 3 main 4x4 shops. Then maybe me and one other guy (who probably also owns a TJ) will chime in about offering to help fix or at least properly diagnose. It's kinda sad.

Let me guess, NTJC?? I despise that group. And you are absolutely right, everybody’s answer to anything is just where to take it. The average IQ level of that group is “Moron”.