Long Arm Lifts vs. Short Arm Lifts

Single mounting point at the frame, spits into separation at the axle. No separate upper arms. Ford and Dodge trucks are like this. Fords have done this for a LONG time. But they are very flat and quite long.

They act as a very good sway bar on road, good road manners. But there is no counter acting force keeping from traction from pushing the front end up on climbs. Think full extension when you don't want it to. RE came up with it for easy install, and tons of flex. But they forgot the whole "proper geometry" thing, and the MC is no different from what I'm seeing.

And

Okay, that makes perfect sense.

Sometimes I feel like I need one of those little scale RC crawlers to play around with different suspension setups on. I'd instantly understand it if I could physically hold a smaller model and play with it.

But in this case I get it 100%. I could see why going up steep climbs it might be scary.
 
Okay, that makes perfect sense.

Sometimes I feel like I need one of those little scale RC crawlers to play around with different suspension setups on. I'd instantly understand it if I could physically hold a smaller model and play with it.

But in this case I get it 100%. I could see why going up steep climbs it might be scary.
Yea that would be cool to have and play with. I wish 9th degree long arm kits were still available to play around with, they were designed by a former TJ engineer and tucked up very nicely. So I guess a picure is worth a thousand words, not all long arms are created equal. Apparently his mindset was to design suspension for the TJ to make it more capable offroad yet provide an nice on road ride. He did things that the factory couldnt or wouldnt do for various reasons.
129_0603_30_z+2005_jeep_rubicon_unlimited+clearance.jpg
 
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Yea that would be cool to have and play with. I wish 9th degree long arm kits were still available to play around with, they were designed by a former TJ engineer and tucked up very nicely. So I guess a picure is worth a thousand words, not all long arms are created equal. Apparently his mindset was to design suspension for the TJ to make it more capable offroad yet provide an nice on road ride. He did things that the factory couldnt or wouldnt do for various reasons.
View attachment 69218
Not to be confused with a bolt-on long arm suspension.
 
Yea that would be cool to have and play with. I wish 9th degree long arm kits were still available to play around with, they were designed by a former TJ engineer and tucked up very nicely. So I guess a picure is worth a thousand words, not all long arms are created equal. Apparently his mindset was to design suspension for the TJ to make it more capable offroad yet provide an nice on road ride. He did things that the factory couldnt or wouldnt do for various reasons.
View attachment 69218

Yes, Jim Frens.

He’s a smart guy. But like Jerry said, that can’t be confused with a bolt-on long arm.
 
Yes, Jim Frens.

He’s a smart guy. But like Jerry said, that can’t be confused with a bolt-on long arm.
Not to be confused with a bolt-on long arm suspension.
I was unaware that his 6.5 long arm kit required welding...it is bolt on. I can provide an article of an install that never mentions anything different...So I'm not confused.
 
I was unaware that his 6.5 long arm kit required welding...it is bolt on. I can provide an article of an install that never mentions anything different...So I'm not confused.

Is it bolt-on? It's long been out of production. I always assumed it involved some welding. I'm sure you're right, it sounds like you've researched it way more than I ever have!
 
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I've always understood Nth as a bolt on system. Either way it was a very different approach to longer arms than anything else out there.
 
What happened to them?

My understanding is that Jim Frens sold the company to AEV, and then AEV off-loaded it to someone else (at some point). The people who bought it did a horrible, horrible job of running it (@Rob5589 had a thread about it on the forum somewhere, how he had been waiting on a part from them forever and they wouldn't even respond to him), and now I think they closed their doors for good.

It's a shame, because at their peak, they made some really nice stuff that seemed to be well thought out.

Could be the angle of the picture, but those long arms are so tightly tucked, its insane.

Yes, I'd love to see how it's mounted up inside the frame (i.e., what the brackets look like).
 
The Nth front was a radius arm. Notice the absence of a LnL doohickey. The rear was a "3 link" in that it used a torque arm single upper.
1502d5970436e03a33f43addae46e037.jpg

From my reading, I think the most significant flaw was the Gyro Joints. They didn't last long. Imagine a single shear Johnny Joint turned 90deg. You can see the races in the image above. I can see the ball wanting to pull through the race.
 
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I've always understood Nth as a bolt on system. Either way it was a very different approach to longer arms than anything else out there.
Definitely not bolt-on. It required cutting and welding. This is right out of the Nth Degree instructions for their long-arm kit...

Installation Instructions: GyroJoint™ LongArms – Jeep Wranglers

Nth30100 v2.3 page 1 of 16 download @ http://www.nthdegreemobility.com

Kit Part Numbers & Applications

Nth14002: Jeep TJ Wrangler (93.4” WB)
Nth14003: Jeep TJ Unlimited (103.4” WB)

(stuff deleted)
Step 10: Remove Stock Frame brackets. This is the ‘no turning back’ part: All four of the original lower control arm (LCA) brackets must be removed from the frame, as well as the rear upper control arm (RUCA) brackets.
 
Definitely not bolt-on. It requires cutting and welding.

This is right out of the Nth Degree instructions for their long-arm kit...

Installation Instructions: GyroJoint[emoji769] LongArms – Jeep Wranglers

Nth30100 v2.3 page 1 of 16 download @ http://www.nthdegreemobility.com

Kit Part Numbers & Applications

Nth14002: Jeep TJ Wrangler (93.4” WB)
Nth14003: Jeep TJ Unlimited (103.4” WB)

(stuff deleted)
Step 10: Remove Stock Frame brackets. This is the ‘no turning back’ part: All four of the original lower control arm (LCA) brackets must be removed from the frame, as well as the rear upper control arm (RUCA) brackets.

What parts are welded? Not saying there aren't any.

As a broad statement, I would consider cutting to still be part of a bolt on system.
 
What parts are welded? Not saying there aren't any.

As a broad statement, I would consider cutting to still be part of a bolt on system.
http://quadratec.com/Assets/Installation/85180.pdf says in the tools required section "MIG Welder (required for both weld-on and bolt-on options – see Step 4) "

Once you read through the directions you'll see it's definitely not a simple bolt-on kit. Many attempted the job only to need a shop to finish the installation like mentioned in the Rubicon Owner's forum at https://www.rubiconownersforum.com/...-wheels/39072-nth-degree-longarm-install.html
 
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http://quadratec.com/Assets/Installation/85180.pdf says in the tools required section "MIG Welder (required for both weld-on and bolt-on options – see Step 4) "

Once you read through the directions you'll see it's definitely not a simple bolt-on kit. Many attempted the job only to need a shop to finish the installation like mentioned in the Rubicon Owner's forum at https://www.rubiconownersforum.com/...-wheels/39072-nth-degree-longarm-install.html
Interesting. Even the bolt on method requires welding! :)
 
So, do the bent arms keep the rear axle centered? I don't see a tb.
The Stinger/torque arm captures the center section at the front and rear. The diff skid is part of the bracketry. This is how Nth is able to eliminate the rear track bar.
cdc2185535b429b2d5500ac07fe7a610.jpg
 
Interesting. I wonder what the advantages and shortcomings are of that Nth long arm. I wonder for instance how it would compare to the Savvy mid-arm.

@mrblaine, do you have any first hand experience with that Nth Degree long arm? It seems like if it truly were such a great idea, others would have copied it.
 
How did a celebratory "I just won $5K in parts from Metalcloak" turn into just another knee jerk "Metalcloak is sh*t" thread?

I don't own any Metalcloak products, but I have encountered many jeepers who do on the trails in NorCal. The comments I have heard from them are positive. None have castigated their Metalcloak products or lamented that they should have listened to Jerry Bransford. Most would probably respond, "Who is Jerry Bransford?"

I'm going to keep an open mind until (1) someone who actually owns a Metalcloak suspension articulates reasons for making a different choice, or (2) both forum members who design and/or build TJ/LJ suspensions as a profession have weighed in on the subject.
 
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