Shooting at Westgate in Glendale, AZ

Fixed it for you.
I’m beginning to sense some bias in your choice of word 😉

Mental health is the problem , not guns . stop medicating your kids just because there weird .
This. My parents decided to homeschool me because I was hyperactive and showed signs of “ADD.” They knew I was just smart and a quick learner, which caused me to be bored a lot. They also knew if I went through a public school system, they would want to put me on all sorts of meds. After a few years of maturing, I calmed down. Here I am at 27 years old and I turned out fine. Relatively 😉

That has been the been a talking point for years. Has there been any progress in combating mental health issues?
Unfortunately there never will be. Big pharma owns our government and will forever. The longer they can keep “medicating” people the worse mental health becomes. I ageee with Ronnie in that it absolutely starts with our children.

Depression meds are a good example. You start to ween off of them and you begin to feel the urge to harm and kill yourself, so you go back to the meds. But if you go through a detox program to truly get off of them under supervision, you end up just fine. I have a close friend that’s been battling this for the last year.

Depression is linked to poor quality of life. You aren’t born with it. I think acknowledging that would be a great first step, but we all know that will never happen.
 
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I’m beginning to sense some bias in your choice of word 😉


This. My parents decided to homeschool me because I was hyperactive and showed signs of “ADD.” They knew I was just smart and a quick learner, which caused me to be bored a lot. They also knew if I went through a public school system, they would want to put me on all sorts of meds. After a few years of maturing, I calmed down. Here I am at 27 years old and I turned out fine. Relatively 😉


Unfortunately there never will be. Big pharma owns our government and will forever. The longer they can keep “medicating” people the worse mental health becomes. I ageee with Ronnie in that it absolutely starts with our children.

Depression meds are a good example. You start to ween off of them and you begin to feel the urge to harm and kill yourself, so you go back to the meds. But if you go through a detox program to truly get off of them under supervision, you end up just fine. I have a close friend that’s been battling this for the last year.

Depression is linked to poor quality of life. You aren’t born with it. I think acknowledging that would be a great first step, but we all know that will never happen.
Yes, you own a TJ . so yes relatively . :D
 
How many automatic weapons are there in the US? How often are they used in a crime?


Are you asking about registered full auto NFA weapons that are fully automatic or semi auto, common rifles?

The answer to both is zero for NFA full auto guns, and semi auto rifles are VERY low on the list. Handguns far out weigh them, we can put the FBI stats if you want hard numbers.
 
Are you asking about registered full auto NFA weapons that are fully automatic or semi auto, common rifles?

The answer to both is zero for NFA full auto guns, and semi auto rifles are VERY low on the list. Handguns far out weigh them, we can put the FBI stats if you want hard numbers.

Dont you bring facts into this firearm hate fest.
 
Not trying to turn this into any type of debate guys. There are billions of firearms in this country that no ban is going to “make go away.” Anyone with a strong enough motive will get their hands on one. So stay diligent and stay aware.

“Speak softly, and carry a big stick.”

Well said Jamison C. When I was working, and responded to, or involved in a shooting, we would always have people come up and tell us what a whack job the suspect was. We would hear about all of the crazy gun stuff he/she did for the past month or so, yet nobody called to report it. It will be interesting to see how many come forward and reveal what this guy had said or done in the past, that would raise flags.

Considering the weapon used, thank God there weren't more wounded.
Ray

Also, shouldn't that be: "Speak softly, and carry a 45" ? 🇺🇸
 
I am talking about full auto. Why are there are no crimes committed by the owners of these guns?



Who hates firearms?


Maybe because responsible gun owners don’t commit crimes? 😳

Criminals commit crimes.

And if you have ever shot anything full automatic, they are not ideal for doing wet work. Hard to control, fairly inaccurate and wastes a lot of ammo with poor results.

The doctrine of the use of full auto is for suppressing the enemy in place to allow movement and gain a superior position.

Aimed, accurate fire is much more useful not only in terms of ammo preservation but effectively hitting and stopping the target.

I’m speaking of small arms in this context.



The reality of it is, explosives are easier to come by, do more damage and are far more effective. OKC bombing is a good example.

The whole topic of semi auto rifles or rifles period being used in crimes is just ludicrous. The facts are right in FBI stats and my own personal involvement with criminals. If you find one with a gun, 99.98% of the time it’s a pistol. I’ve found a few shotguns as well, but rifles? Nope. Too large to conceal, they are intimidated by them as well.
 
but rifles? Nope. Too large to conceal, they are intimidated by them as well.

In my experience, pointing a 223 at a criminal had the same level of intimidation as in the old days, when I'd rack a round in the Remington 870...….made them stop in their tracks.

Good memories, thanks. Well most of the time anyway
🇺🇸 Ray
 
I am talking about full auto. Why are there are no crimes committed by the owners of these guns?
To obtain an automatic weapon takes special licensing and thousands of dollars. Then the firearm itself is thousands more. They are very hard for the average joe to obtain.

But, as @Rubi04 said, responsible gun owners don’t commit crimes. There are millions upon millions of semi auto rifles out there that are used for leisure, mine included. So while shootings do happen with the AR15, those numbers are almost insignificant (regarding rifles, not lives) to the number of rifles that aren’t used. What is significant is how many more deaths are related to handguns than semi auto rifles.

The loss of any life is tragic, but I think for a population of 328 million people and about 3 billion firearms, we do ok.
 
People often quote Occam's razor as "the simples solution is often the best," but while a lot of the time that's true, that's actually not correct. The quote actually translates to "entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity," and I think we crossed that bridge a long time ago with guns. I have a bolt-action .308 for hunting, a pump 12ga for birds, a lever action .22 for my nephew, and a handgun for carry. I used to have an H&K .40, but I cut it in half with a grinder in 2018 on principle and bought a revolver. I've inherited guns that I've also destroyed to keep them out of circulation. I can remember in the 90s my Dad turned a bunch of his guns in to the cops to be destroyed and got a load of McDonald's gift cards that we used all year.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, I hate feeling like I'm being sold something, whether its jeep gear, vinyl siding, a new phone, or the latest and greatest space-age ball hugging underwear, and I often feel bad when I see people who fall for marketing wank. And that's what I see with a lot of other gun owners who buy guns basically, as far as I can tell, just to have them. I just don't get why people can't be practical.
 
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I don't think you can own a full-auto weapon manufactured after 1984(?), so the cost drives it out of the range of most. And as stated above, going rock-n-roll with an M-16 or AK platform will result in most rounds being off target, and then you have an empty mag. Since WW2 we've focused on individual marksmanship. As a benny you don't have to carry as much ammo.

Edit: 1986 unless you are a dealer, military or police.
 
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Yes, 1986 is the last date manufacture allowed by the NFA. It’s a one time fee of $200, to get the tax stamp for the class three weapon (full auto). Cheapest one on the market is a Mac 10/11 and they are around $8-9k last I looked. M16 lower will cost you over $20k. Belt feds run in the 60-120k range.


Just to clarify, it also takes anywhere from a few months to 16 months for the stamp to be approved after they do their background check. It also opens your door/safe to the ATF to check on that weapon as well pretty much when they want.

You can’t take it across state lines without ATF permission. You must carry paperwork with you when in use. You can’t loan it out.


TONS of restrictions. So you can understand a little better what it takes to own something full auto.
 
People often quote Occam's razor as "the simples solution is often the best," but while a lot of the time that's true, that's actually not correct. The quote actually translates to "entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity," and I think we crossed that bridge a long time ago with guns. I have a bolt-action .308 for hunting, a pump 12ga for birds, a lever action .22 for my nephew, and a handgun for carry. I used to have an H&K .40, but I cut it in half with a grinder in 2018 on principle and bought a revolver. I've inherited guns that I've also destroyed to keep them out of circulation. I can remember in the 90s my Dad turned a bunch of his guns in to the cops to be destroyed and got a load of McDonald's gift cards that we used all year.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, I hate feeling like I'm being sold something, whether its jeep gear, vinyl siding, a new phone, or the latest and greatest space-age ball hugging underwear, and I often feel bad when I see people who fall for marketing wank. And that's what I see with a lot of other gun owners who buy guns basically, as far as I can tell, just to have them. I just don't get why people can't be practical.


The second amendment has zero to do with hunting. It is in place to allow the PEOPLE to maintain arms against a tyrannical government. Period. Full stop.


Now I support your right to hunt, not like the same things I do and no see the sense of an armed populace. That’s fine, many of us have bled for your right to have that opinion and many others.

But please understand that your perception of why many of us own firearms is not a byproduct of marketing or any other nonsense.

It is a GOD given right and I shall exercise it anyway I see fit. I also hunt, fish and shoot competitions. None of those activities are part of what the second amendment is about.
 
The second amendment has zero to do with hunting. It is in place to allow the PEOPLE to maintain arms against a tyrannical government. Period. Full stop.


Now I support your right to hunt, not like the same things I do and no see the sense of an armed populace. That’s fine, many of us have bled for your right to have that opinion and many others.

But please understand that your perception of why many of us own firearms is not a byproduct of marketing or any other nonsense.

It is a GOD given right and I shall exercise it anyway I see fit. I also hunt, fish and shoot competitions. None of those activities are part of what the second amendment is about.
Spot on, and well said!
 
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Maybe because responsible gun owners don’t commit crimes? 😳

Criminals commit crimes.

The problem is we don't differentiate between the two except for NFA guns.

Well said Jamison C. When I was working, and responded to, or involved in a shooting, we would always have people come up and tell us what a whack job the suspect was. We would hear about all of the crazy gun stuff he/she did for the past month or so, yet nobody called to report it. It will be interesting to see how many come forward and reveal what this guy had said or done in the past, that would raise flags.

Considering the weapon used, thank God there weren't more wounded.
Ray

Also, shouldn't that be: "Speak softly, and carry a 45" ? 🇺🇸

The sad part is that the gun lobby and many of the posters in this thread are making sure red flag laws will not pass in most states. I also thought it strange that people on the no fly list were allowed to buy guns. From https://va.org/guns-and-the-no-fly-list/

Back in 2010, the Government Accountability Office (GAO), noticed that there is no prohibition for the people on the ‘no-fly list’ to buy guns and ammunition, and they can easily be given licenses and ammunition through the standard procedure just as an ordinary citizen of the country. From 2004-2010, around 1400 individuals applied for the guns and 1321 succeeded in purchasing the required ammunition which means more than 90% of the people who are barred from taking flights from or in or over the US and are suspected to be a terrorist can buy guns. No law was resisting the members of a terrorist organization to purchase firearms.

To obtain an automatic weapon takes special licensing and thousands of dollars. Then the firearm itself is thousands more. They are very hard for the average joe to obtain.

But, as @Rubi04 said, responsible gun owners don’t commit crimes. There are millions upon millions of semi auto rifles out there that are used for leisure, mine included. So while shootings do happen with the AR15, those numbers are almost insignificant (regarding rifles, not lives) to the number of rifles that aren’t used. What is significant is how many more deaths are related to handguns than semi auto rifles.

The loss of any life is tragic, but I think for a population of 328 million people and about 3 billion firearms, we do ok.

Really? Our homicide rate is ok? I work with a guy that has full auto Tommy gun, and a friend with a license to have one. He does have a suppressor for his USP tactical. It is a joy to shoot with little recoil no need for ear protection.

I wonder how many mass shooters would have the balls to go on a shooting spree with out the