Short Arm vs Mid Arm vs Long Arm

YonderNorthwest

YonderNorthwest

TJ Enthusiast
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Joined
Dec 29, 2020
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167
Location
Portland Oregon
1999 Sahara on 31s with no lift. DD / hunting rig / overlander. "Overlander" meaning 5-6 day trips once or twice a year that generally consist of logging roads with mild rocks (never personally needed by passenger to get out and spot). Also done some powerline roads in Lolo Pass near Mount Hood that were a bit more technical.

My question to all of you knowledgeable people is: Would it be substantially beneficial for someone with my rig (no lift) and my use (see above) to install a mid arm or long arm on my ride to improve handling and comfort? Poorly paved roads in my area make for a pretty bumpy ride, and I'm considering options to amend that. Also, would either of these options make a difference in how my Jeep rides on wash board roads? Those generally kick my butt (literally) as well. I'm also concerned that the loss of under carriage clearance as a result of either of these options could be a big no no since I'm already on the low side with my stock height springs.

Have not put much thought into this yet, so any and all advice or wisdom you can provide is appreciated.
 
IMO, longer arms are a solution to a problem that you don't have. Longer arms could improve the ride quality when lifted since it reduces the angle of the arm. Because you're stock, the arms are already in the "ideal" position.

The going wisdom is shocks determine ride quality. I'd start with a new set of shocks before going for anything more extreme. That in all likelihood is all you need.
 
I would get better shocks and a antirock… for the type of wheeling you are doing. Mid arms are not needed. I would just stay away from long arms for many reasons
 
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PRNDL said:
IMO, longer arms are a solution to a problem that you don't have. Longer arms could improve the ride quality when lifted since it reduces the angle of the arm.
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In theory and if the arm angles are steep enough but not in reality since the arm angles don't get so steep that they actually make the ride any stiffer.

For your needs @YonderNorthwest a standard length arm suspension lift is all you'd want at the most, no need for the significant expense of a Savvy midarm or the uselessness of a long-arm when compared to a short arm. I installed a 4.5" long arm suspension onto my previous TJ and it helped nothing, it was only good at getting its long arms hung up on trail obstacles. My current Currie short-arm 4" suspension lift does everything better and its arms don't get hung up on the rocks either.
 
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Superjay5 said:
I would get better shocks and a antirock… for the type of wheeling you are doing. Mid arms are not needed. I would just stay away from long arms for many reasons
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Got the anti rock already. Little background. Finally replaced the factory shocks and springs after they had about 200K on them, and the ride feels odd. I installed the anti rock, shocks and springs all at the same time. Ride was pretty terrible, but I had been driving it for 15ish years so I just assumed it was a "jeep thing". Now the car feels like it sways and rolls more than it did before. I'm guessing that's a symptom of the anti rock. At the same time it clunks and bumps pretty hard on pot holes and such. I think you're right that it's probably the Bilstein shocks I went with.
 
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Jerry Bransford said:
In theory and if the arm angles are steep enough but not in reality since the arm angles don't get so steep that they actually make the ride any stiffer.

For your needs @YonderNorthwest a standard length arm suspension lift is all you'd want at the most, no need for the significant expense of a Savvy midarm or the uselessness of a long-arm when compared to a short arm. I installed a 4.5" long arm suspension onto my previous TJ and it helped nothing, it was only good at getting its long arms hung up on trail obstacles. My current Currie short-arm 4" suspension lift does everything better and its arms don't get hung up on the rocks either.
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Thanks, Jerry. It seems the remedy for my tipsy ride is replacing the shocks I installed 3,000 miles ago. Was just hoping my next expense wouldn't be replacing something I should not have installed in the first place.
 
YonderNorthwest said:
Got the anti rock already. Little background. Finally replaced the factory shocks and springs after they had about 200K on them, and the ride feels odd. I installed the anti rock, shocks and springs all at the same time. Ride was pretty terrible, but I had been driving it for 15ish years so I just assumed it was a "jeep thing". Now the car feels like it sways and rolls more than it did before. I'm guessing that's a symptom of the anti rock. At the same time it clunks and bumps pretty hard on pot holes and such. I think you're right that it's probably the Bilstein shocks I went with.
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Try different shocks, Bilstein 5100 shocks don't have a good reputation for much of anything except for providing a jittery ride on a TJ. I also doubt your handling issues are related to the Antirock. My Antirock(s) I've been running for 18+ years have always been set on their loosest setting and my TJ's handling is fine. A moderately priced shock I used to run is the Rancho RS5000x. It has a great ride and it was equally great offroad too. You might try a set of those. Make sure too not to confuse that with the older RS5000 that has a terrible ride.

Check your toe-in too, maybe it's jacked up. There's an alignment thread at https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/how-to-align-your-jeep-wrangler-tj.85/ that will illustrate how to easily check and adjust your toe-in to the factory spec.
 
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Jerry Bransford said:
In theory and if the arm angles are steep enough but not in reality since the arm angles don't get so steep that they actually make the ride any stiffer.

For your needs @YonderNorthwest a standard length arm suspension lift is all you'd want at the most, no need for the significant expense of a Savvy midarm or the uselessness of a long-arm when compared to a short arm. I installed a 4.5" long arm suspension onto my previous TJ and it helped nothing, it was only good at getting its long arms hung up on trail obstacles. My current Currie short-arm 4" suspension lift does everything better and its arms don't get hung up on the rocks either.
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Thanks Jerry. I always appreciate your experience. (y)
 
PRNDL said:
IMO, longer arms are a solution to a problem that you don't have. Longer arms could improve the ride quality when lifted since it reduces the angle of the arm.
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You could be more wrong but not by much.
PRNDL said:
The going wisdom is shocks determine ride quality.
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No, the truth is shocks have more effect on ride quality than anything else.
PRNDL said:
I'd start with a new set of shocks before going for anything more extreme. That in all likelihood is all you need.
Click to expand...
Which shocks?
 
Jerry Bransford said:
Try different shocks, Bilstein 5100 shocks don't have a good reputation for much of anything except for providing a jittery ride on a TJ. I also doubt your handling issues are related to the Antirock. My Antirock(s) I've been running for 18+ years have always been set on their loosest setting and my TJ's handling is fine. A moderately priced shock I used to run is the Rancho RS5000x. It has a great ride and it was equally great offroad too. You might try a set of those. Make sure too not to confuse that with the older RS5000 that has a terrible ride.

Check your toe-in too, maybe it's jacked up. There's an alignment thread at https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/how-to-align-your-jeep-wrangler-tj.85/ that will illustrate how to easily check and adjust your toe-in to the factory spec.
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I went with Bilstein 4600s instead of the 5100s. I was concerned about the fitment of the 0-2" lift note on the smallest size they had, and their website described the 4600s as being a softer ride. Now I am considering going with those H&R springs Irun put on his new build. My hesitation is the potential cascading effect of needing to replace every suspension component because I decided to replace one or two.

Do you think it could be that my springs have too light of a rate, and that is what is causing my floaty ride? Because it sounds like you haven't had the same issue as me with your anti rock. Seems counter intuitive to me that the same shocks could be making the jeep sway back and forth like I'm at sea, but also not adequately absorbing the sharper impacts.

Thanks
 
YonderNorthwest said:
Thanks, Jerry. It seems the remedy for my tipsy ride is replacing the shocks I installed 3,000 miles ago. Was just hoping my next expense wouldn't be replacing something I should not have installed in the first place.
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No, the "remedy" to your tipsy ride is a stiffer sway bar, which you traded for the antirock. Do you know what the purpose of the antirock is? And did you install it as a solution to a specific problem?
YonderNorthwest said:
Now the car feels like it sways and rolls more than it did before. I'm guessing that's a symptom trait of the anti rock.
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bingo

If you don't like it and cannot get acclimated to it, consider either reinstalling your factory sway bar, replacing your antirock with a dual rate sway bar such as the swayloc, or adjusting your antirock to the stiffest holes.
 
Definitely check your toe-in as suggested above since a whacked-out toe-in can cause handing problems. I doubt your springs are causing any problem, I'm not sure that anyone here really likes Bilstein shocks.

And despite the above advice to get rid of the Antirock, it's not your problem. Again, 18 years with mine and it does fine even on twisty/tight/curvy mountain roads even when I'm towing my tent trailer.
 
Jerry Bransford said:
I'm not claiming anything and I'm not going to argue with you about my 18 years of good Antirock experience. If it caused handling problems I'd notice it on my twisty mountain roads.
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I don't intend to argue either. I am not bashing the antirock as a bad product. The change in handling is an objective thing, but whether that change is good or bad is subjective and better suited to another thread. I am simply matching A to B

A
YonderNorthwest said:
I installed the anti rock
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B
YonderNorthwest said:
Now the car feels like it sways and rolls more than it did before.
Click to expand...

I'm not calling B a bad thing - I am pointing out the correlation between A and B to OP.
 
Jerry Bransford said:
it was only good at getting its long arms hung up on trail obstacles.
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Jerry, this thread is not complete without the picture ;)
longarms.jpg
 
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