Rear Spring Relocation Without Adding Height?

freedom_in_4low said:
The compressed length of the KYB is right in line with an 11" rancho, but with about 1-1/4" less on the extended side. I would (and did) go with the rancho but if he's wanting to use the KYB specifically I doubt he'll miss the downtravel.
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Part of my motivation for KYB is to 'take one for the team' by trying them out. Seems favorites have gone Bilstein/Rancho/Black Max.. and someone has a negative on each of them. Not a lot of feedback on the KYB. I'm no connoisseur on the comfort of a Jeep and expect the ride to improve over the Bilstein it came with.
Edit: and even I have noticed that 'what's your favorite shock' is not a question that needs asking.
 
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freedom_in_4low said:
And to think, I once installed a lift on a TJ, out of the box, and the only thing I measured in the entire process was for where to drill a new hole in the front track bar bracket 🤣
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Remember the freedom? 🤣
1803113-1558772613022-02fd57ae2ddeb.jpg
 
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freedom_in_4low said:
The compressed length of the KYB is right in line with an 11" rancho, but with about 1-1/4" less on the extended side. I would (and did) go with the rancho but if he's wanting to use the KYB specifically I doubt he'll miss the downtravel.
Click to expand...
I’m specifically just commenting on how his bilstein currently fits at his ride height.
 
NOTNSUV said:
Part of my motivation for KYB is to 'take one for the team' by trying them out. Seems favorites have gone Bilstein/Rancho/Black Max.. and someone has a negative on each of them. Not a lot of feedback on the KYB. I'm no connoisseur on the comfort of a Jeep and expect the ride to improve over the Bilstein it came with.
Edit: and even I have noticed that 'what's your favorite shock' is not a question that needs asking.
Click to expand...

I get it. My ranchos leave something to be desired, specifically in the rear, but they're the only decent option that has the right lengths for me, front and rear. Blackmax has a good option for the rear but would put me at like 70/30 in front, and KYB has a good option for the front but not the rear. I haven't quite talked myself into running completely different shocks on each axle.
 
freedom_in_4low said:
I get it. My ranchos leave something to be desired, specifically in the rear, but they're the only decent option that has the right lengths for me, front and rear. Blackmax has a good option for the rear but would put me at like 70/30 in front, and KYB has a good option for the front but not the rear. I haven't quite talked myself into running completely different shocks on each axle.
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Makes your 2010 methodology sound appealing.:ROFLMAO: Bolt it on and GO!
I forget your lift specs.
Back to the shock threads..

@MikeH
  • KYB monomax:. Better than the ranchos, in that they controlled the Jeep and the rear started reacting predicably again. Very stiff though. High pressure charge, enough so that when I was checking my bumps without the springs, the Jeep would lift up, then settle back down on every stroke of the jack. Bouncy ride."
 
NOTNSUV said:
Part of my motivation for KYB is to 'take one for the team' by trying them out. Seems favorites have gone Bilstein/Rancho/Black Max.. and someone has a negative on each of them. Not a lot of feedback on the KYB. I'm no connoisseur on the comfort of a Jeep and expect the ride to improve over the Bilstein it came with.
Edit: and even I have noticed that 'what's your favorite shock' is not a question that needs asking.
Click to expand...
I tried the KYB monomax and thought they were stiff. If you didn't mind the Bilsteins you'll probably be ok.

My favorite shocks, so far, have been blown out Bilsteins. I didn't realize they were blown out, but when I pulled them off, the "rebound" was dramatically reduced and they had started to weep oil. Obviously, they had to go, but they rode really well! The black max is as close as I've come to that.
 
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NOTNSUV said:
Makes your 2010 methodology sound appealing.:ROFLMAO: Bolt it on and GO!
I forget your lift specs.
Back to the shock threads..

@MikeH
  • KYB monomax:. Better than the ranchos, in that they controlled the Jeep and the rear started reacting predicably again. Very stiff though. High pressure charge, enough so that when I was checking my bumps without the springs, the Jeep would lift up, then settle back down on every stroke of the jack. Bouncy ride."
Click to expand...

Back then it was a zone 3" lift kit, but that rig is long gone. I was wheeling at highway pressure and didn't have sway disconnects.

Now it's a home brew 4" I've pieced together over 4 years with lots and lots of cycling and measuring with every step it's evolved through, and I can wheel this one all day without my back letting me know about it for the next week!

I saw that comment about the KYBs. It pushed my interest toward the blackmax, but it would be good to have more than one data point on the KYB. The rs5000x used to be described as Cadillac soft and now they're too stiff to some, which just goes to show that shocks may very well be the most subjective mod we do in the TJ game. I think you found my thread about this, but I was 100% satisfied with the Ranchos on my TJ; when I moved them over to the LJ is when the honeymoon ended.
 
Mike_H said:
I tried the KYB monomax and thought they were stiff. If you didn't mind the Bilsteins you'll probably be ok.
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Bilsteins came on it, never off pavement before I tore into it. Didn't care for the feel. 7" of lift. Now down to 5".
Mike_H said:
My favorite shocks, so far, have been blown out Bilsteins. I didn't realize they were blown out, but when I pulled them off, the "rebound" was dramatically reduced and they had started to weep oil. Obviously, they had to go, but they rode really well! The black max is as close as I've come.
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Unanimous verdict that my 5100s are blown after pulling off the front.
Gotta re-find the Black Max chart I guess.
I do carry a loaded LJ on the trail or hunting.
 
freedom_in_4low said:
Back then it was a zone 3" lift kit, but that rig is long gone. I was wheeling at highway pressure and didn't have sway disconnects.

Now it's a home brew 4" I've pieced together over 4 years with lots and lots of cycling and measuring with every step it's evolved through, and I can wheel this one all day without my back letting me know about it for the next week!

I saw that comment about the KYBs. It pushed my interest toward the blackmax, but it would be good to have more than one data point on the KYB. The rs5000x used to be described as Cadillac soft and now they're too stiff to some, which just goes to show that shocks may very well be the most subjective mod we do in the TJ game. I think you found my thread about this, but I was 100% satisfied with the Ranchos on my TJ; when I moved them over to the LJ is when the honeymoon ended.
Click to expand...
Yup, trying to remember..
Which mixed combo were you considering? KYB Front/Blackmax Rear? And would you do it if you were in my spot - needing 4 shocks?
I'll check your build again and see how close we are on the LJs.
 
Finally got shock measurements front & rear. Finding several 'close' offerings in the most often mentioned around here.
How persnickety do I need to be to match new shock lengths with those I'm replacing?

Also, reading through build threads and most recently that of @Mike_H and it's becoming apparent that shock measurements are only the beginning of a proper setup. As in, measuring while at full stuff, lock-lock steering, etc. and looking for interference, etc. What config do I need to do these? What needs to be connected and what needs to be removed or disconnected?
 
NOTNSUV said:
Finally got shock measurements front & rear. Finding several 'close' offerings in the most often mentioned around here.
How persnickety do I need to be to match new shock lengths with those I'm replacing?

Also, reading through build threads and most recently that of @Mike_H and it's becoming apparent that shock measurements are only the beginning of a proper setup. As in, measuring while at full stuff, lock-lock steering, etc. and looking for interference, etc. What config do I need to do these? What needs to be connected and what needs to be removed or disconnected?
Click to expand...
You'll want close, then bump for interference and/or shock travel. If you bump for other hard parts, that's when you start getting crazy ideas about moving the shock mounts around so you can use the travel you're paying for.

The ideal is to have hard part interference happen at the same time the shocks bottom out.

As far as how you cycle the axles, I leave everything connected except the sway bars. Be careful though...moving the axles up and down with the trackbar connected will make them move side to side as well.
 
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@jjvw
Showing what was under the rear relo brackets. I reinstalled in OEM position and they measure right for the shocks. You'd mentioned splitting bumps between top and bottom. Should I be doing that with these or the body lift pieces, or leave as is? There's nothing on the bottom perch.

PXL_20211206_201027443.jpg


PXL_20211206_201023303.jpg
 
NOTNSUV said:
@jjvw
Showing what was under the rear relo brackets. I reinstalled in OEM position and they measure right for the shocks. You'd mentioned splitting bumps between top and bottom. Should I be doing that with these or the body lift pieces, or leave as is? There's nothing on the bottom perch.

View attachment 294850

View attachment 294851
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Those big discs on the axle side are early-TJ spring isolators. Mine didn't have them and still doesn't. I have no thoughts either way.

If I were to extend stock bumps again, I would copy what Currie/RockJock does. I would bolt a 3" diameter body lift puck to the lower bump and extend the upper cup down with a 2" diameter body lift puck. I would cut each side to be about half the height of the total mount of extension needed.
 
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jjvw said:
Those big discs on the axle side are early-TJ spring isolators. Mine didn't have them and still doesn't. I have no thoughts either way.
Click to expand...
The plastic discs were in the package with the new rubber upper discs. Got stuff from OEM Mopar website so followed their diagram.
jjvw said:
If I were to extend stock bumps again, I would copy what Currie/RockJock does. I would bolt a 3" diameter body lift puck to the lower bump and extend the upper cup down with a 2" diameter body lift puck. I would cut each side to be about half the height of the total mount of extension needed.
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Thank you sir. I hunted for that detail in your earlier post but unsuccessful search. I got the lift pucks so will measure and do it.
 
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@jjvw , @freedom_in_4low, @Mike_H

I tagged you fellas since you're the ones who've been patient enough to guide me through this process.

KYB MonoMax Front
56509625.3115.869.45
Replacing Bilstein 5100 24.00 14.52 9.48

KYB MonoMax Rear
56509723.7415.278.47
Replacing Bilstein 5100 25.00 16.00 9.5" (measured)

Am I in the ballpark? Just want to be sure I'm not outside the usable parameters. Bump stops set up with Bilsteins I'm replacing but I figure minor length differences can be made up with bump 'tuning'. Found these in stock so thought I'd give them a whirl. I'm not 'stuck on' KYB but considered Fox at $150+ per and thought why 'try' a shock at that price. These are pretty low budget for a monotube shock and if I hate them it's not a bank breaker. Considering the heavy load I often carry I'm thinking a little on the firm side might be a good thing.

@Ovaltine suggested earlier in this thread:
"It seems strange to me that you have 5” of lift and are sitting even travel with a 10” shock. You should be able to fit a longer shock based on my experience".
I still need to measure again since I think I might have included the isolator in the 5" measurement and have yet to final measure the rear at its new ride height.
 
NOTNSUV said:
@jjvw , @freedom_in_4low, @Mike_H

I tagged you fellas since you're the ones who've been patient enough to guide me through this process.

KYB MonoMax Front
56509625.3115.869.45
Replacing Bilstein 5100 24.00 14.52 9.48

KYB MonoMax Rear
56509723.7415.278.47
Replacing Bilstein 5100 25.00 16.00 9.5" (measured)

Am I in the ballpark? Just want to be sure I'm not outside the usable parameters. Bump stops set up with Bilsteins I'm replacing but I figure minor length differences can be made up with bump 'tuning'. Found these in stock so thought I'd give them a whirl. I'm not 'stuck on' KYB but considered Fox at $150+ per and thought why 'try' a shock at that price. These are pretty low budget for a monotube shock and if I hate them it's not a bank breaker. Considering the heavy load I often carry I'm thinking a little on the firm side might be a good thing.

@Ovaltine suggested earlier in this thread:
"It seems strange to me that you have 5” of lift and are sitting even travel with a 10” shock. You should be able to fit a longer shock based on my experience".
I still need to measure again since I think I might have included the isolator in the 5" measurement and have yet to final measure the rear at its new ride height.
Click to expand...

What's your shock length for each axle at ride height? Apologies if you've posted it, I'm just not in a position to go looking at the moment.
 
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