RV Towing Rant

Nightmare9

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So when I purchased my 2006 Chevy 2500 HD Duramax, I thought I knew what it would tow. But the information given by Chevy is nearly useless.
My Truck had a 5th Wheel towing capacity of like 15,000 lbs.
But what they don't tell you is:
The truck weighs 7000 lbs
The truck's GVWR is 9200 lbs
That leaves 2200 lbs for the passengers, cargo and pin. So if you count 4 passengers x 154 (the standard American Adult size :ROFLMAO: ) you have 1584 max pin weight.
A 15k 5th Wheel has more like 2500 lbs on the pin, so thanks Chevy.

They have fixed MANY of these problems in the last 15 years by just increasing ALL the ratings for Ford, Chevy and Dodge.

Now that we are looking for a motorhome, I'm running into the same bullshit.

2020 Jayco Alante 26X
GVWR - 16000
GCWR - 23000
UVW - 14453 - This is the vehicle with full fuel and propane
Water Capacity - 53 gal (442 lbs)

GVWR - UVW - Water = 1105 lbs

This 28' 5" RV sleeps up to 8, but with just 4 PEOPLE (x 154lbs each) you have 489 lbs leftover for EVERYTHING ELSE including hitch weight.

There is 7000lbs leftover for the towing, but if you put 500 lbs on the hitch you literally can't put ANYTHING else in the entire coach.

WTF?

The 2020 Jayco Alante 27A
GVWR of 18,000 lbs
GCWR - 23000
UVW - 15263 - This is the vehicle with full fuel and propane
Water Capacity - 72 gal (600 lbs)

GVWR - UVW - Water = 2137 lbs
Minus 4 passengers (616 lbs) = 1521 lbs

600 lbs of pin weight with a 5921 lb Box trailer (including the 4500 lb Jeep)

1521 - 600 = 921 lbs leftover on the trailer and this can be added to the difference between the GVWR and the GCWR.

I can either haul food, pots, pans, bedding, etc OR water.

Am I correct or am I missing something?

Link for the specs (Post #7) : https://www.irv2.com/forums/f278/entegra-vision-27a-question-564613.html
 
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Yep! Ran into the same problem.

My friend just bought a Power-Boost F150 (twin turbo V6 plus hybrid). They advertise a 12,400 lb. tow rating. The truck weighs 6000 lbs. with a GVWR of 7300 lbs. That only leaves 1300 lbs. for tongue weight, occupants and cargo. If you have 10% tongue weight of 1240 lbs. that only leaves 60 lbs. for the driver only. Looks like it's time to find an ex Jockey for a driver. Complete bullshit.

Yes, most of the Class C motorhomes running the Ford F450 chassis have very little room left for tongue weight. Especially the longer 30 footers. Better to only flat tow a vehicle. You might even bend the frame on one of those longer Class C's towing a Jeep on a trailer.

Your best bet is to go with a Class A gas or diesel. But, look at the chassis. Some of the gas coaches are on lighter duty chassis.
 
So when I purchased my 2006 Chevy 2500 HD Duramax, I thought I knew what it would tow. But the information given by Chevy is nearly useless.
My Truck had a 5th Wheel towing capacity of like 15,000 lbs.
But what they don't tell you is:
The truck weighs 7000 lbs
The truck's GVWR is 9200 lbs
That leaves 2200 lbs for the passengers, cargo and pin. So if you count 4 passengers x 154 (the standard American Adult size :ROFLMAO: ) you have 1584 max pin weight.
A 15k 5th Wheel has more like 2500 lbs on the pin, so thanks Chevy.

They have fixed MANY of these problems in the last 15 years by just increasing ALL the ratings for Ford, Chevy and Dodge.

Now that we are looking for a motorhome, I'm running into the same bullshit.

2020 Jayco Alante 26X
GVWR - 16000
GCWR - 23000
UVW - 14453 - This is the vehicle with full fuel and propane
Water Capacity - 53 gal (442 lbs)

GVWR - UVW - Water = 1105 lbs

This 28' 5" RV sleeps up to 8, but with just 4 PEOPLE (x 154lbs each) you have 489 lbs leftover for EVERYTHING ELSE including hitch weight.

There is 7000lbs leftover for the towing, but if you put 500 lbs on the hitch you literally can't put ANYTHING else in the entire coach.

WTF?

The 2020 Jayco Alante 27A
GVWR of 18,000 lbs
GCWR - 23000
UVW - 15263 - This is the vehicle with full fuel and propane
Water Capacity - 72 gal (600 lbs)

GVWR - UVW - Water = 2137 lbs
Minus 4 passengers (616 lbs) = 1521 lbs

600 lbs of pin weight with a 5921 lb Box trailer (including the 4500 lb Jeep)

1521 - 600 = 921 lbs leftover on the trailer and this can be added to the difference between the GVWR and the GCWR.

I can either haul food, pots, pans, bedding, etc OR water.

Am I correct or am I missing something?

Link for the specs (Post #7) : https://www.irv2.com/forums/f278/entegra-vision-27a-question-564613.html
You aren't missing a thing. You've done the math, which is more than most RV owners can say. Most just see the hitch rating and run with that, not giving a damn about GVWR, let alone GCWR.
 
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Geeze, you guys ought to travel lighter.

0787DA3E-F4B5-494D-8284-F2ADE9E06A68.jpeg
 
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you can mitigate some of these issues if you went with a larger RV, Last year I bought a Thor Magnitude XG32, 4x4 on a F550 chassis with a 6.7L Powerstroke. We are full time RV'rs. we are currently in AZ, awaiting the "solar guy" to install 1500 watts of solar with 600Ah of battery. The queen bed is plenty large enough, and if you have kids, they will love sleeping over the cab.
The Rig weighs 19,500, the GVWR is 40,000 ~~~ thats 20K pounds gross weight I can put in/behind the "Escape Pod" ( yes we named it that because we 'escaped' from NY) and we bought the 2000 Tj specifically to tow behind the Escape Pod, because the thing only weighs under 4500 pounds ( or so) The Escape Pod has a 10,000 pound tow capacity. we just bought a Ready Brute elite tow system for the Jeep, That should be here Friday ( I hope)
Now, a small Super-C is not for everyone. but we prefer it to a class-A, as my wife said "I don't want to be the first to the crash scene" ;)
Now I say that because in 2020, a nice lady crossed a double yellow center line and hit my pickup truck head on at, about, 60mph and rolled our P/U truck three times. everyone survived, but the P/U was destroyed. so my wife is little paranoid of having nothing in front of her while sailing down the road. :D

anyway, going to a larger rig would help, although your financial situation may prevent you from going to larger, or to a different style rig, but good luck. If you have any questions about the Thor Magnitude, give me a shout, Im happy to help
 
My wife wants a smaller unit that she is comfortable driving. Coming from a 40’ 5th wheel just about anything will be smaller 🤪
But she also wants to be smaller for the National Parks. So right now we are looking at under 30.
These JAYCO Class A units really only need 1-2k additional GVWR and GCWR to make it a non-issue.
 
if you're looking at going to any kind of campground save yourself some weight by traveling empty and getting water when you get there, also empty your gray and black tanks before you leave. I know that's not much but at least the rig you're looking at has something. Were looking at the Class C on a Merc chassis and the towing capacity is 4500. do the math on those and you can't even put two adults in them.
 
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Also keep in mind that the typical 5th wheel pin weight is around 20%. My 15,500 lb (actual weight) 5th wheel is right at 3200 lbs pin weight (CAT Scaled). The OP's pin weight of a 15k 5th wheel at 2500 lbs is light for pin weight.
 
The 5th wheel I had was sold as a 38, but from the hitch to the rear bumper was about 3” short of 40’.

I put mine on the CAT scale with all the water and the fuel, but never made it back with the RZR and quads on board. The actual pin weight probably did exceed 2500, but I’m not sure by how much. That was one of about 5 reasons we sold it. The new owner has a 2022 Ford 250 Superduty and I think it’s cargo capacity was almost double my 2006 Dmax.

I did put 10 ply tires on the truck. I think they are rated 3015 lbs each
 
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I don't think anybody is trying to trick anyone, the numbers make sense to me. 15k is the maximum, meaning with the lightest pin weight acceptable and the lightest driver possible and with the truck totally empty towing 15k is possible. That's what maximum means. If you are towing a 5th wheel with a fully loaded cab and 25% pin weight that wouldn't be maximum towing capacity at all.

If it could tow that 15k fifth wheel fully loaded with four people and baggage then the maximum towing capacity would be like 20k and we'd be having the same discussion about 20k being wrong.
 
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My wife wants a smaller unit that she is comfortable driving. Coming from a 40’ 5th wheel just about anything will be smaller 🤪
But she also wants to be smaller for the National Parks. So right now we are looking at under 30.
These JAYCO Class A units really only need 1-2k additional GVWR and GCWR to make it a non-issue.
Look at the Newmar Bay Star and Bay Star Sport models. Their 30' models are on a 20.5K chassis instead of an 18K chassis like most other manufacturer's 30 footers. I've got a 2017 BSS 2903. On a GVWR 20.5K chassis. approximate unloaded weight is 16.4K, so that leaves 4.1 payload. GCWR is 26K, however, even though it looks like there's 5.5K left to tow, it's only rated at 500# tongue, 5000# towing. Might be the hitch rating limiting that. I've got several thousand miles flat towing my LJ, with no issues.
 
Most people towing with modern trucks totally disregard GVWR. The amount of trucks I see every day on the highway pulling large campers, construction equipment, or multi car trailers is insane.

They're capable of doing it. As long as you're not totally reckless, and you're not running commercials plates you should be fine.
 
Most people towing with trucks totally disregard GVWR. The amount of trucks I see every day on the highway pulling large campers, construction equipment, or multi car trailers is insane.

They're capable of doing it. As long as you're not totally reckless, and you're not running commercials plates you should be fine.
FIFY. Its been going on for a century or more...
 
If the chassis has the capacity, I’m willing to swap out for a higher rated hitch.

My problem with Chevy is that they don’t print materials in a way that is easier to understand for less anal customers. I guarantee there are thousands of people towing trailers that are well over the GVWR and they don’t understand, because the number in the sales pamphlet says 15k

And the final piece of bullshit is that none of the trailer manufacturers will even tell you the “ ACTUAL” weight of the completed trailer.
 
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If the chassis has the capacity, I’m willing to swap out for a higher rated hitch.

My problem with Chevy is that they don’t print materials in a way that is easier to understand for less anal customers. I guarantee there are thousands of people towing trailers that are well over the GVWR and they don’t understand, because the number in the sales pamphlet says 15k

And the final piece of bullshit is that none of the trailer manufacturers will even tell you the “ ACTUAL” weight of the completed trailer.
I see you are in SoCal. Ca has a license requirement for a 5th wheel with a GVWR over 15k. For a 5th wheel trailer, over 15k and you are required to have the Non Commercial Class A Drivers License. A Travel Trailer over 10k requires the Non Commercial Class A also. I took my test with a 13k Dually and a 15,350 GVWR 5th wheel. Most people do not know this, and most of the trailer dealers are not informing the buyers of this. The 26k commercial rating does not apply to RV Trailers for personal use in Ca.

My 5th wheel has a yellow sticker much like our trucks do, which shows the weight as it left the factory, and available payload.