Build plan sanity check

I’d determine what your tire size is going to be. If you decide 37s, go with Currie Dana 60s and be done with it.
 
El Jay said:
LJ- does that change for a daily driver?
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Front automatic and, most importantly, rear selectable is even more applicable to a daily driver. Admittedly, I put 200,000 miles on my Toyota truck with a rear Detroit (122" wheelbase - don't know if that mattered) but when/if my factory lockers shit the bed I'll be probably be going front automatic and definitely rear selectable.
El Jay said:
I suppose with manual hubs it would be a non issue but what about with unit bearings?
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no issue that I'm aware of
 
El Jay said:
I picked up an 06 LJ not too long ago with plans of slowly building it. However, my axles sucked in some water and decided to self destruct a couple weeks ago. So now I "get" to push the fast forward button and progress this build at a MUCH faster rate. I'm trying to maintain some decent financial decisions through all of this but at the same time don't really want to have to rebuild it later. On road performance is equally important to me as this is my daily driver.

General build goals: this is a daily driver and I want it to stay that way. Keep it as light as possible using aluminum instead of steel where it's feasible. Able to wheel it fairly hard on the weekend and drive to work on Monday. I would like to stay away from proprietary parts as much as possible. Currently I'm on 35s, may go to 37s later but wont go bigger than 37s.

I'm looking at either a ECGS D489 w/JK outers or a RockJock 60 for the front and either a ECGS semi float 60 rear or a RockJock 60 rear. I'm planning on a front E-locker and rear Detroit, probably going to go with 5:13s

Other things that will happen at about the same time, a Savvy or UCF tummy tuck and all that goes into it and a 6-pinion, wide chain, SS SYE transfer case rebuild. Will also be replacing the current lift with a Currie/Savvy lift. Steering will be sorted after axles are solidified.

Looking for experience based guidance on what axle combo and width and why you recommend it. I'm not locked into these options they are just the one's I've turned up in the searching I've done. Also by going to D60s how much lift would they effectively give over stock based on axle tube diameter?
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The amount of height bigger axles would give you is negligible and the pumpkin would hang down further than a Dana 44. Some of that would be offset by larger tires, but why? Why 37’s on a DD? I’d say you need a stretch. I personally wouldn’t do it. To do it right would take years.
 
Vtx531 said:
Sanity check - if you want a Jeep Wrangler, there is a certain maximum tire size that makes sense with the wheelbase...

If you want bigger, build a buggy.

Otherwise buy a replacement Dana 44 from scrapped Jeep or repair current axle (should be a Dana 44 if it is an Unlimited).

Paying for an axle that costs more than most entire TJs is ludicrous.

Daily driving a stock TJ is insane in my opinion. Daily driving a TJ on 37's is absolutely crazy nuts ridiculous WTF are you thinking have you never driven a nice modern car yes you could but why would you want to?
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I know folks who daily drive at TJ. I would certainly not refer to them as insane.

I know folks who daily drive a TJ on 37's. I would certainly not refer to them as crazy nuts.

I know folks who have put high dollar axles under their rigs. I would not call their decision ludicrous.

You are entitled to your opinion - however misguided. But casting aspersions toward people, and making ridiculous generalizations, says more about you then anyone you are trying to ridicule.
 
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NashvilleTJ said:
I know folks who daily drive at TJ. I would certainly not refer to them as insane.

I know folks who daily drive a TJ on 37's. I would certainly not refer to them as crazy nuts.

I know folks who have put high dollar axles under their rigs. I would not call their decision ludicrous.

You are entitled to your opinion - however misguided. But casting aspersions toward people, and making ridiculous generalizations, says more about you then anyone you are trying to ridicule.
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My new build is intended to be daily driven capable and enjoyable. Why would anyone assume any different?

I always enjoyed dailying my blue one. The red one will be more betterer.
 
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El Jay said:
General build goals: this is a daily driver and I want it to stay that way. Keep it as light as possible using aluminum instead of steel where it's feasible. Able to wheel it fairly hard on the weekend and drive to work on Monday. I would like to stay away from proprietary parts as much as possible. Currently I'm on 35s, may go to 37s later but wont go bigger than 37s.
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Not that it can't be done.
My thought is that it's hard to build bulletproof.
Do you have a backup plan for when your DD breaks on the weekend?
 
In regards to "bulletproofing" your drivetrain, the most significant part is between your ears, like I said I would rather winch up something than risk breaking. I'm mostly seeking information from guys like @NashvilleTJ and @gogetter that have done a similar swap before to learn what other issues I may or will likely run into that I don't know about yet.

A little back ground on me, I graduated from WyoTech years ago then worked in a smaller 4wd shop before moving onto a different career. The actual doing of the work I don't have an issue with, I just want to know what I don't know.

I've considered stretching the wheelbase, but this is all going to have to go together on a fairly tight time frame and I don't think I want to open that can of worms right now. that will likely be something for later. If I stretch the wheelbase I will probably stretch tub at the wheel wells as well.
 
El Jay said:
In regards to "bulletproofing" your drivetrain, the most significant part is between your ears, like I said I would rather winch up something than risk breaking. I'm mostly seeking information from guys like @NashvilleTJ and @gogetter that have done a similar swap before to learn what other issues I may or will likely run into that I don't know about yet.

A little back ground on me, I graduated from WyoTech years ago then worked in a smaller 4wd shop before moving onto a different career. The actual doing of the work I don't have an issue with, I just want to know what I don't know.

I've considered stretching the wheelbase, but this is all going to have to go together on a fairly tight time frame and I don't think I want to open that can of worms right now. that will likely be something for later. If I stretch the wheelbase I will probably stretch tub at the wheel wells as well.
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Well, we kinda' have a similar wheelin' philosophy - I'd rather break it than risk winchin'... ;)

The LJ is a great start. In some ways it's easier to get a big wheelbase stretch than on a TJ. I'm at 115" with full fenders in the back (meaning no comp cut). Cut out the extra cross member, move the tank all the way back, put corner armor on to move the wheel wells back, add a set of links and coilovers and boom - you're there. If you are running big tires, you can get away without modifying the frame and still get descent uptravel.

A bit of an oversimplification, but you get the idea.
 
Time, cost, or effort.
Pick 2.

I understand you are motivated to accelerate your build (prioritizing time). In that case I'd suggest giving extra consideration to @TheBoogieman recommendation to have mrblaine work on it.

In my case I prioritized cost savings (AKA "Daddy Allowance"), and with the enormous help of @Terry Tiemeyer we spent months planning out the build, anticipating how each choice may impact future parts of the build (see Ian Johnson's "the domino effect")
.

I've been reminded by more experienced members of this forum that almost every modification one could make to this platform has already been accomplished and shared, and I invite you to continue chasing some rabbit holes on YouTube (may I suggest https://youtube.com/c/CardinalOffroad) and other forums (pirate4x4.com is a good resource for similar builds) to wisely spend your time, money, or effort.

We'll be here to help and we're rooting for you!
🙂
 
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Searching sanity .... sanity not detected, check fail, keep building.

As far as added lift, 489 in the rear will add roughly 2"
 
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NashvilleTJ said:
Well, we kinda' have a similar wheelin' philosophy - I'd rather break it than risk winchin'... ;)

The LJ is a great start. In some ways it's easier to get a big wheelbase stretch than on a TJ. I'm at 115" with full fenders in the back (meaning no comp cut). Cut out the extra cross member, move the tank all the way back, put corner armor on to move the wheel wells back, add a set of links and coilovers and boom - you're there. If you are running big tires, you can get away without modifying the frame and still get descent uptravel.

A bit of an oversimplification, but you get the idea.
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In your opinion, would moving the tank to avoid possibility of axle interference be worth it? It would set the stage for a stretch later.
 
Your build is pretty well aligned with mine. I was similar, thrust into an axle swap earlier than i had planned because i bought a wrecked LJ. I had zero knowledge about the matter so you are light years ahead of me. Similarly, I wanted 37s, i wanted to be wider than stock, axles not stock, didn't want to do a motor swap for money and sanity and skill reasons (2 of which i dont have and 1 is arguable). The goal that's hard to meet is reliability built for road driving and rock crawling on 37's. Tons are HEAVY. The 42RLE is an absolute DOG. So what do we do? If I was starting from scratch this is what i would do:
  1. Front JK44/JL44 hybrid, rubicon gearset is quite respectable, high pinion, 35 spline shafts, ideally Dana 60 outers give you selectable hubs, big brakes, big ass balljoints, big UJs. The perfect balance of weight v reliability IMO. If you build your own could be reasonable. Otherwise gonna be spendy still. For the record my Jk44 gearset and 30 spline locker (electric rubicon) has been good so far for me on 37s. Spicer balljoints lasted 5K miles, Rare Parts have lasted 10K, Balljoint Deletes are waiting to be installed. JL/JT brakes a great upgrade and bolt on the Jk axle. 44 center section is easier to integrate than 60. 65WMS makes life waaaay easier during rest of build. Less cutting, better steering, more space for shocks, sway bars etc.
    1. Go as deep as possible. 5.38.
  2. Rear 489 or 60. Have had no issues with the 489 35 spline yet. Full float would probably be nice. 5.38 gearing recommended.
  3. keep the 4.0 motor but swap to some modern 5+ speed transmission. There is no great solution yet here. Blaine has a start on NAG1 (JK trans) this would be an awesome solution, Advanced Adapters has a 4L60E kit which could allow a 6-speed option with that housing. Paddle shifters would make this a vialbe power solution *i think*.
  4. The rest of the build you got to focus on not needing 40" tires and staying light. This is important because if you're wheeling as hard as the above partlist would indicate most of the people around you are gonna be on 40s. SO you need everything to be not hangy downy and well skidded. All aluminum armor wear it makes sense. Soft top. No spare.
  5. Another option to avoid Dana 60s, 40s AND a motor swap ($65K+) is to dump all your monies into like Fusion Fabricated axles which allow you to run really big axle ratios like up to 6.25 instead of 5.38. Might be enough to make the 42RLE not as terrible. They're gonna be heavy tho.
In my experience thus far, the cheapest way to do something is to do it once. I have wasted so much money redoing shit, i could have put a rockjock 60 in the front. BUT when i did the axle swap there's no way i could've done that so it wasn't even on my radar. Also, a stretch on 37s for an LJ is not needed. In fact, i wouldn't want it. The belly is far more likely to hang me up than the gas tank as i currently sit.
 
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El Jay said:
In your opinion, would moving the tank to avoid possibility of axle interference be worth it? It would set the stage for a stretch later.
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No - only move that tank if you are doing a big stretch. And by a big stretch I mean moving the rear back something like 5 or 6+ inches or so - which is no small task. Also, don’t do it until you actually do the stretch. Otherwise, the tank will drag even worse than it does now.

At the proper time, it you make the effort to move the tank, you also want to raise it up as much as you can.

And if you are doing that much of a stretch, don’t do it to run 37’s - way too much wheelbase for the smaller tire. That’s 40’s+ territory, and a whole ‘nother can of worms. Boom’s advice above is spot on.

I’m certainly not the one to discourage going big, but going that big means going big everywhere. Axles, brakes, driveline, power, bodywork, etc.
 
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So since I’ve last posted some things have happened.

First this happened. (Not sure why it’s rotated but oh well) I found these a few hours away for a very good price.
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Then after going back and forth what seemed like a hundred times:
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Dynatrac 44/60 combo with 5.13s and e-lockers. I would have preferred 5.38s but I was able to find these in stock and they arrived a week after ordering. They are set up for a JK, we’ll get to that later. After spending a ton of time comparing options and doing some reading on a few of the JK forums I felt these provide the best value for what I wanted. People seemed to not be having issues with the dynatrac ball joints and that was my biggest concern with not going to a hybrid style axle with a Dana 44 Center and Dana 60 outers. These actually ended up costing less than it would have to build pretty much any other axle combo I had considered and I didn’t have to wait months for them to be complete. I will be following the recommendation of @B00mb00m (seen above) and getting JL brakes to finish these out.

Things that still need sorted out:

1. Front control arms, with centered spring pads it pushes the axle forward about 1-1/2”-2” so off the shelf contol arms won’t work. I’m leaning strongly towards building my own but haven’t been able to find any axle side upper ends, like on the Currie/Savvy arms. Have considered a 3 link, but have reservations about cutting up a brand new Dynatrac housing.

2. Spring perches. Move them on the axle or move them on the frame the difference is about 1-1/2” each side.

3. Front Track Bar will almost certainly have to be moved. It may be worth it to mount the frame side outboard of the frame. Will have to wait and see.

4. Steering, planning on ordering the RPM steering JK2TJ steering kit unless someone has any other recommendations

5. Rear suspension, will possibly build my own links for this.

6. Enduro joints from Barnes 4wd. Seem similar to a Johnny joint. Anyone have experience and opinions on them?

Any comments or recommendations are welcome. As I get some of these other pieces solidified I’ll start a build thread.
 
Glad to see you're making progress on the build! Shotgunning some well-intended thoughts on things I wish I knew when I was in your phase of the build.

Suggestions:
On to things to be sorted out:
  1. My build began with a 4-link and evolved to a driver-side 3 link after the passenger upper control arm hit the exhaust at full stuff. Made my own control arms with ¼" wall DOM and a mix of Artec tube adapters, Johnny Joints (axle side) and Artec heims (frame side). I found the following video helpful when measuring control arms:
  2. My front axle spring perches are pushed out and force the springs to bow out a bit and slightly rub against the bump stop. Grinding down some of the outward flare of the bump stop stopped the springs from snagging.
  3. I outboarded the frame-mounted front track bar mount. That mount will take a lot of stress so make sure it is insanely welded to the frame. My track bar mount has held up to some abuse thanks in large part to the welding skills of @Terry Tiemeyer
  4. I noticed there was no mention of hydraulic assist yet. I ported my steering box in preparation for hydro and ended up not needing it.
  5. See #1 above.
  6. No experience to share on Enduro joints. For what it's worth I've driven this Jeep from Omaha to, through, and back from the Rubicon Trail and there are no squeaks or failures in the heims.
 
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