What are the real variables that control and influence ride quality?

TheBoogieman said:

A wife cancels out all those other "assaults on our senses". I just took a 2 hour road trip with my Jeep and wife. She didn't stop talking the entire time. I was actually thinking of leaving her at the gas station when I filled up.

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The ol’ whining noise from the passenger seat. That can be really costly to fix.

Cool thread-

A lot of things come to mind-

One this all fairly subjective- that isn’t a negative- just how it is- People have pretty broad definitions of ride and drive quality -

Also experience and the ability to differentiate and isolate things and interpret that like Blaine said matters, and I can see how that is a valuable skill to have.


Point of reference- A good example of this is when I took the mud tires off my 2003 i put on 10.5 x 33” ko2 tires, and thought it was soooo smooth

Then I got my 06 with the same tires in 16” , e range , and it rode better to me- so much that my 03 felt messed up

So I start checking the 03 and come to find out my buddy who was helping me did not properly lower the air pressure to 26 psi as I was putting on the tires- so i fix that and all of sudden its in the hunt-

All of this leads me to this - what is a persons baseline ??

Sometimes it was the last Jeep we had, or a buddys’ we drove, or our last tires vs new, or whatever - this category keeps me awake at night, like the old Chicago song- does anyone really know what time it is?

Perception- this is huge, maybe more so for the average joe:

Example- I had a problem with my borgersen upper shaft I created when i installed it- it was making a click noise and let the wheel move a tad at the shaft, which is magnified when you to look at half the diameter of the wheel extending that out

The quietness of the repair created the perception of increased comfort, feel or quality or whatever you want to call it - at the same time there was a real improvement on the road. But truthfully I was more excited because it felt “newer” or “more quality” When in reality I just made it normal.

Keep in mind this is all coming from a guy that knows very little, has fun learning and gets on here to pick up all the help/knowledge he can.

It is kind of funny that so much of what we do is the antithesis of ride quality. We jack them up, put heavy tires on them, load them down with a ton of armor - then wonder how to get the ride quality we murdered back.

Shocks will always be a compromise - most of the time on road vs off, cost vs value, etc... But without a doubt we can improve or destroy on this one. Tire rating matters, but probably far less than size and design. At least there are generally no trade offs fixing the stearing angles and drive train angles we destroyed with our lifts. While not directly comfort related-fixing the gear ratios that were messed up with larger tires will make driving more enjoyable (and to be fair, the ratios were probably off from OEM due to the Goverment getting involved first-tuning for an EPA rating rather than for actual driving).

FWIW, for me a bit of comfort is distraction - I like listening to audiobooks. A stereo that can distract me can make me forget about a lot of other things.

mousehunter said:

It is kind of funny that so much of what we do is the antithesis of ride quality. We jack them up, put heavy tires on them, load them down with a ton of armor - then wonder how to get the ride quality we murdered back.

Shocks will always be a compromise - most of the time on road vs off, cost vs value, etc... But without a doubt we can improve or destroy on this one. Tire rating matters, but probably far less than size and design. At least there are generally no trade offs fixing the stearing angles and drive train angles we destroyed with our lifts. While not directly comfort related-fixing the gear ratios that were messed up with larger tires will make driving more enjoyable (and to be fair, the ratios were probably off from OEM due to the Goverment getting involved first-tuning for an EPA rating rather than for actual driving).

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Do you not believe me when I say something like this can have near sports car like handling? More than one might ever expect?

mousehunter said:

It is kind of funny that so much of what we do is the antithesis of ride quality. We jack them up, put heavy tires on them, load them down with a ton of armor - then wonder how to get the ride quality we murdered back.

Shocks will always be a compromise - most of the time on road vs off, cost vs value, etc... But without a doubt we can improve or destroy on this one. Tire rating matters, but probably far less than size and design. At least there are generally no trade offs fixing the stearing angles and drive train angles we destroyed with our lifts. While not directly comfort related-fixing the gear ratios that were messed up with larger tires will make driving more enjoyable (and to be fair, the ratios were probably off from OEM due to the Goverment getting involved first-tuning for an EPA rating rather than for actual driving).

FWIW, for me a bit of comfort is distraction - I like listening to audiobooks. A stereo that can distract me can make me forget about a lot of other things.

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A friend bought a near stock TJR recently with 58,000 miles.

He lived out of state and I knew the seller so I went and gave it a spin.

One of the first things I thought when I drove it was “I wish all the people that don’t have confidence that these can drive good could drive one before it gets messed up.”

Its rare that people can do what @jjvw has done, the majority just get things out of whack.

These things aren’t impossible to get really good, they are just really easy to mess up.

AndyG said:

A friend bought a near stock TJR recently with 58,000 miles.

He lived out of state and I knew the seller so I went and gave it a spin.

One of the first things I thought when I drove it was “I wish all the people that don’t have confidence that these can drive good could drive one before it gets messed up.”

Its rare that people can do what @jjvw has done, the majority just get things out of whack.

These things aren’t impossible to get really good, they are just really easy to mess up.

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They are really easy to mess up. But it also isn't difficult to learn how to make them really great if you pay attention and are willing to put in the effort. Shocks really are where it's at. And if you build to make the shocks work, the rest will come together.

Also, don't screw up the steering!

Built up a bone stock LJ through the years, and added mods at different times. BL/MML (stock mounts on alu spacers) had an insignificant impact on ride quality. Maybe a tiny bit more vibration at idle due to the motor being closer, a tiny amount more of body roll on tight turns.

Put a 2.5" OME lift on a few years later on a Currie short arm kit. OME shocks springs. Ride quality is still more or less the same, even after moving to load E from SL Destination ATs. Maybe a bit stiffer up front, but will probably soften up too (only been 3 weeks). Definitely trying to keep ride quality as close as possible to stock.

jjvw said:

Do you not believe me when I say something like this can have near sports car like handling?

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i said many times my old lift felt like sports car suspension.................................. and a brick off road. the balance is the tricky part.

tempted to send you my MC shocks to get that info into the mix, from an individual who's tested several others. but i have a feeling they'd end up on the stiff end of your spectrum.

someguysjeep said:

i said many times my old lift felt like sports car suspension.................................. and a brick off road. the balance is the tricky part.

tempted to send you my MC shocks to get that info into the mix, from an individual who's tested several others. but i have a feeling they'd end up on the stiff end of your spectrum.

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I'm certainly curious, but I'm not sure they would fit.

jjvw said:

I'm certainly curious, bit I'm not sure they would fit.

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ya they certainly wouldn't get a 50/50 split. i wanted to ask if you wanted to try them back when you were runnin those junk yard shocks but i had them up for sale at that time.

I don't have a very involved set up currently but switching to shocks that were also the correct length made a big improvement.

Swayloc then improved upon that where you can feel it seems to have introduced slightly more oversteer into the jeep. Front feels more planted with less roll on and off road. I'm using the 4th hole back.

jjvw said:

Do you not believe me when I say something like this can have near sports car like handling? More than one might ever expect?
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Sure. I'll believe you haven't driven a sports car. Or maybe you think "sports car like handling" means "rides like a go cart?"

srimes said:

Sure. I'll believe you haven't driven a sports car. Or maybe you think "sports car like handling" means "rides like a go cart?"

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You don't believe me. Have you ever drifted your TJ around a corner?

Longwhitejeep said:

I don't have a very involved set up currently but switching to shocks that were also the correct length made a big improvement.

Swayloc then improved upon that where you can feel it seems to have introduced slightly more oversteer into the jeep. Front feels more planted with less roll on and off road. I'm using the 4th hole back.

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I suspect that instead of oversteer increases, what you are dealing with is the loss of understeer brought about by muscle memory. Folks by and large don't like to lean over in a vehicle. That leads to lots of automatic steering done subconsciously when navigating mild turns and tilted road bed imperfections.

One of the bigger challenges I run into when I fix steering for folks and get it all tuned up to get rid of all the play is they now bitch that it is too twitchy. That twitchy word is used by a very large number of them, so it isn't something I came up with.

What happens is they have learned to deal with the slop in the steering with subconscious learned responses to road condition and constant corrections. When they get no slop steering, they subconsciously see the road conditions and perform the same corrections and now the rig moves around in the lane instead of staying mostly straight like the previous handling needs dictated. Then I get the complaint. I have to teach them to just drive with a steady smooth hand on the steering wheel, move their focus out much further in front of the rig instead of the 20 foot window they were using and then it all starts to get better.

mrblaine said:

There are no seats, exhaust, tires, suspension, rims, or axles that I would trade for a set of properly tuned reasonably biased, and reasonable travel shocks.

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And what is a reasonable travel? Factory is around 7.5" I believe. I know you do a 4" lift with 12" shocks for a reason, but is there any "in between" for those that don't want do a 4" lift?