Control arm pops: when do you worry?

AndyG

Because some other guys are perverts
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I have a combination of Johnny joints, and clevites (weren’t they in the bible?) - all well greased and maintained.

This weekend on the trail I heard more pops when flexing than ever-

I also heard the newer rigs pop

One guy that has not wheeled as much heard it on his and he was just questioning how much is normal-

I heard other guys commenting on the same thing- the trail had some deep V’s to traverse



I realize unless it’s about to explode most joints don’t have anything in them to pop- Which leads me to look at the torque value of the control arm bolts and should I question If there is wear on the bolt.

So my question is when do you worry about it -

Should one be dead silent ?

Is the torque value of the bolt a concern to you when you hear it?

Is greasing the actual bolt a good idea?

I realize that we never want to see slop at a connection- I also realize there is a lot of pulling and twisting going on under these in trail situations, as well as metal to metal where the bushing sleeve is squeezed by the control arm bracket -

So far I don’t see any interference with anything-

Thank you all in advance- I’m just trying to learn: To know when not to worry, and when to worry.


Andy
 
Are you certain it's the CAs, and not a spring or something else in the suspension? I only ask, because my JT was silent when it was stock on the trail up to Flat rock, then after the springs and Spacers, I'd get a pop when flexing while turning, or driving diagonally through a rut or a step. I think mine is caused by the spacers on top of the springs.
 
Are you certain it's the CAs, and not a spring or something else in the suspension? I only ask, because my JT was silent when it was stock on the trail up to Flat rock, then after the springs and Spacers, I'd get a pop when flexing while turning, or driving diagonally through a rut or a step. I think mine is caused by the spacers on top of the springs.
Could be , but mine have isolators on both ends I think where they can- and you can feel it under the drivers seat or passenger floorboard- really leaning toward CA but I follow you 100 percent- gonna flex test in yard-
 
Talk to me Goose-

Any pops guys?
 
No noises like that in mine and I've run all types of arms, even ripped factory bushings out of arms. Don't grease the bolts. The bolt, sleeve and control arm bracket are a single unit when torqued properly. The sleeve may be turning in the bushing if it failed but that ain't the bolt, that's between the bushing sleeve and the bushing. I'd be looking at other stuff like @Artsifrtsi said.
 
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Think this through.

The bolts, as you should understand by now, do not move when they are correctly tightened. Nothing is moving around the bolt. There is nothing to grease, because nothing moves. If a bolt or anything it is supposed to secure is moving, then the bolt isn't tight enough.

Cleavites have no moving parts, only a part that stretches. So they will be silent. There is nothing to grease, because nothing moves. If a Cleavites is moving and making noise, then the rubber has torn free of the sleeve or barrel housing and needs to be replaced.

A Johnny Joint rod end is a ball moving within a race. They can make creaks and groans if they are not greased. If a Johnny Joint is popping or clunking, then it is falling apart.
 
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Think this through.

The bolts, as you should understand by now, do not move when they are correctly tightened. Nothing is moving around the bolt. There is nothing to grease, because nothing moves. If a bolt or anything it is supposed to secure is moving, then the bolt isn't tight enough.

Cleavites have no moving parts, only a part that stretches. So they will be silent. There is nothing to grease, because nothing moves. If a Cleavites is moving and making noise, then the rubber has torn free of the sleeve or barrel housing and needs to be replaced.

A Johnny Joint rod end is a ball moving within a race. They can make creaks and groans if they are not greased. If a Johnny Joint is popping or clunking, then it is falling apart.
I was hoping you would weigh in-

I greased it and after a few flex cycles it quietened down a lot - probably because grease that squeezed out got where the bolts are letting the joints move a tad in the mounts- which gets me back to your first paragraph- check all my bolts-grease didn’t fix it, just masked the movement short term

Which also has me thinking as I’m typing this that I never did go through and check the original shops work or re torque then after it all settled in- never did

Good post, thanks, makes total sense
 
I was hoping you would weigh in-

I greased it and after a few flex cycles it quietened down a lot - probably because grease that squeezed out got where the bolts are letting the joints move a tad in the mounts- which gets me back to your first paragraph- check all my bolts-grease didn’t fix it, just masked the movement short term

Which also has me thinking as I’m typing this that I never did go through and check the original shops work or re torque then after it all settled in- never did

Good post, thanks, makes total sense
I may be crazy or uneducated….but….if your bolts are “letting the joint move around a little bit” then something is wrong. When you torque it down it’s not supposed to move.

Also, if things are done correctly, you don’t “re-torque them after they’ve all settled in”.

You torque them to the proper torque, and that’s that. Checking the shop’s work makes sense, this other stuff doesn’t.

You also don’t want to over torque. These bolts and brackets work under that torque so it stays tight, and if you over tighten it loses that benefit as well. Smarter people can explain why that is, it just is.
 
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I was hoping you would weigh in-

I greased it and after a few flex cycles it quietened down a lot - probably because grease that squeezed out got where the bolts are letting the joints move a tad in the mounts- which gets me back to your first paragraph- check all my bolts-grease didn’t fix it, just masked the movement short term

Which also has me thinking as I’m typing this that I never did go through and check the original shops work or re torque then after it all settled in- never did

Good post, thanks, makes total sense
If you are greasing bolts, are you reducing the torque value? If not, then you could be over stretching the bolt to the point of deformation. At that point, the bolt is ruined and things will move when they shouldn't.
 
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If you are greasing bolts, are you reducing the torque value? If not, then you could be over stretching the bolt to the point of deformation. At that point, the bolt is ruined and things will move when they shouldn't.
Not greasing them at all except the jj’s that have the fitting-

Was just saying I agreed the torque was the issue and realized, after reading your post, that my grease that oozed out likely quietened the pop that is being caused by too little torque where the bolt/mount squeezes the joint, so although it may now be quieter I need to check the torque.

As far as greasing the bolt deliberately, no.
 
I may be crazy or uneducated….but….if your bolts are “letting the joint move around a little bit” then something is wrong. When you torque it down it’s not supposed to move.

Also, if things are done correctly, you don’t “re-torque them after they’ve all settled in”.

You torque them to the proper torque, and that’s that. Checking the shop’s work makes sense, this other stuff doesn’t.

You also don’t want to over torque. These bolts and brackets work under that torque so it stays tight, and if you over tighten it loses that benefit as well. Smarter people can explain why that is, it just is.
If I’m following everyone, if all is solid, the only likely place a noise is likely coming from is where the johnny joints are held by the clamping force of the bolt-

If they were properly torqued, likely we would not be having this thread. Something being wrong is what got me started.

The shop likely just hit them with an impact - and yes, after 3 years if they begin making noise, regardless of what you want to call the process , settling in, falling apart, whatever, they need to be checked. And if you are tightening then that is called “re torquing”. People do this with assemblies all the time, especially if they may not have been done right to start with.

I now realize what the noise likely is, and that I need to make sure the arms are all properly torqued.

I’m just trying to understand how it all works better, and how to keep it up.
 
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Good post. When I installed mine I just tightened the heck out of them. Now I feel the need to go and torque them properly. Like I really needed something else to do🤣