Ok, time for lets argue about your favorite shocks

Again, both the shocks and the springs control ride quality and feel. They are a system, one does not work well without the other. I have modeled these systems and they all play a component. The degree of which depends on the circumstances and the components. Just as jjvw has stated he has experience with tuning his shocks to control roll, I have changed out springs and have had roll impacted. I am personally not dismissing jjvw’s statements, but he is now saying that springs don’t play a roll at all except for ride height and I cannot agree with that based on both physics and experience. My statement is that during a slow and steady curve, which one is going to be dominant. Given their experience I’ll even concur that in a lot of cases the springs aren’t dominant, but I know when I had my RE express springs on, I had a lot less roll than with dual rate.
 
Again, both the shocks and the springs control ride quality and feel. They are a system, one does not work well without the other. I have modeled these systems and they all play a component. The degree of which depends on the circumstances and the components. Just as jjvw has stated he has experience with tuning his shocks to control roll, I have changed out springs and have had roll impacted. I am personally not dismissing jjvw’s statements, but he is now saying that springs don’t play a roll at all except for ride height and I cannot agree with that based on both physics and experience. My statement is that during a slow and steady curve, which one is going to be dominant. Given their experience I’ll even concur that in a lot of cases the springs aren’t dominant, but I know when I had my RE express springs on, I had a lot less roll than with dual rate.

Did you take your shocks off and go for a drive last night? I can tell that you didn't.
 
Again, both the shocks and the springs control ride quality and feel. They are a system, one does not work well without the other. I have modeled these systems and they all play a component. The degree of which depends on the circumstances and the components. Just as jjvw has stated he has experience with tuning his shocks to control roll, I have changed out springs and have had roll impacted. I am personally not dismissing jjvw’s statements, but he is now saying that springs don’t play a roll at all except for ride height and I cannot agree with that based on both physics and experience. My statement is that during a slow and steady curve, which one is going to be dominant. Given their experience I’ll even concur that in a lot of cases the springs aren’t dominant, but I know when I had my RE express springs on, I had a lot less roll than with dual rate.
Ride height changed. 🤫
 
But, it doesn’t matter wether we agree on the spring component, what I’m really trying to figure out is which is the best shock for me…I would think a stiffer shock would be better (to a point) for handling and a softer one for off road…but this is where I am not certain and have not thought about. This is also why I’m curious if an adjustable shock might be beneficial for the way I drive?
 
Did you take your shocks off and go for a drive last night? I can tell that you didn't.
No, but in 2016, when I swapped out my shocks, they had absolutely no resistance in them, I could compress them with one hand, yet my springs were so hard for the weight of my keep at the time, I was whipping it along a curvy road…and even had sway bars disconnected.

Again, I said I agree shocks are important, I’m just saying that springs play a role in the whole system as well and I have backed it up with experience.
 
No, but in 2016, when I swapped out my shocks, they had absolutely no resistance in them, I could compress them with one hand, yet my springs were so hard for the weight of my keep at the time, I was whipping it along a curvy road…and even had sway bars disconnected.

Again, I said I agree shocks are important, I’m just saying that springs play a role in the whole system as well and I have backed it up with experience.
edit: one finger
 
No, but in 2016, when I swapped out my shocks, they had absolutely no resistance in them, I could compress them with one hand, yet my springs were so hard for the weight of my keep at the time, I was whipping it along a curvy road…and even had sway bars disconnected.

Again, I said I agree shocks are important, I’m just saying that springs play a role in the whole system as well and I have backed it up with experience.
Those of us who have had our shocks tuned have never been asked anything about our springs other than the ride height and travel lengths. If the springs mattered, one would think the shock tuner would care more about them.

What does matter is having an understanding of how these things work.
 
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Those of us who have had our shocks tuned have never been asked anything about our springs other than the ride height and travel lengths. If the springs mattered, one would think the shock tuner would care more about them.

What does matter is having an understanding of how these things work.
Shocks are not as tunable as springs, you generally have to replace the shocks. You tune the springs to match the shocks and give you the best overall system. And yes, I agree understanding how things work is what matters.
 
Shocks are not as tunable as springs, you generally have to replace the shocks. You tune the springs to match the shocks and give you the best overall system. And yes, I agree understanding how things work is what matters.
Who's your favorite spring tuner?
 
Shocks are not as tunable as springs, you generally have to replace the shocks. You tune the springs to match the shocks and give you the best overall system. And yes, I agree understanding how things work is what matters.
Good. Go fix your Jeep with springs. Then come back and explain how you did it.
 
Favorite and best are very subjective. $$$ tend to play into that on both sides. Sometimes when you spend more $$$, you convince yourself something is better, other times you decide they can not be worth the $$$ so economical is best. As such I have seen Rancho called best and I have seen Fox 2.0 RR with DSC called best. Sadly it is not cheep to experiment.
You're starting to become annoying.
 
Again, both the shocks and the springs control ride quality and feel. They are a system, one does not work well without the other. I have modeled these systems and they all play a component. The degree of which depends on the circumstances and the components. Just as jjvw has stated he has experience with tuning his shocks to control roll, I have changed out springs and have had roll impacted. I am personally not dismissing jjvw’s statements, but he is now saying that springs don’t play a roll at all except for ride height and I cannot agree with that based on both physics and experience. My statement is that during a slow and steady curve, which one is going to be dominant. Given their experience I’ll even concur that in a lot of cases the springs aren’t dominant, but I know when I had my RE express springs on, I had a lot less roll than with dual rate.
How to say I don't know a fucking thing about oil displacement without saying I don't know a fucking thing about oil displacement.

You have one shot to explain what effect oil displacement has on a shock's performance and if I don't like the answer I'm going right back to telling folks to buy soft springs.
 
Shocks are not as tunable as springs, you generally have to replace the shocks. You tune the springs to match the shocks and give you the best overall system. And yes, I agree understanding how things work is what matters.
Well fuck me, I should know better by now to keep reading and save myself the trouble of replying to fuckwits. Ignore my previous post to you and just go buy some soft springs.
 
Well fuck me, I should know better by now to keep reading and save myself the trouble of replying to fuckwits. Ignore my previous post to you and just go buy some soft springs.
It's bananas!
 
Shocks are not as tunable as springs, you generally have to replace the shocks. You tune the springs to match the shocks and give you the best overall system. And yes, I agree understanding how things work is what matters.
Where does one send their springs to be tuned?
 
Ok, so here are two more examples of springs impacting ride, one anyone can duplicate (unlike removing my springs and driving). First we all know that we air down for grip, but there is also the mantra ‘air down for comfort,’ so lower and raid your tire pressure and tell me that does not impact ride quality…tires act as air springs.

Second example, my daily is a Grand Cherokee Trailhawk, and I like to take it to Assateague beach here. I can raise and lower its ride because it uses air springs. The first time out I decided to take it all the way up (even though didn’t need it), and it bashed and battered me around as the springs were so tight, there was little give.

In both examples the springs are changing and not the shocks.

I’m not sure what else I can say, those are real world examples of springs impacting ride.