Fluid Film Black vs Fluid Film

I don't disagree with that. I've seen the damage done by the Northern-salted-tin-worm. Actually, one of the recent tactics of the low-dollar used car lots around here is to get a car from the Northeast that looks ok on the outside at a discount, and sell it to unknowing people at our typical market prices.

Wow... first I've heard of that. Typically cars are bought down there and sold up here at a big markup. To hear of it the other way around is bizarre!
 
Wow... first I've heard of that. Typically cars are bought down there and sold up here at a big markup. To hear of it the other way around is bizarre!

Just like the Jeep that @TheBoogieman posted, they look ok if you don't look underneath, which the majority of buyers don't since they buy on price alone. I figured it out a few years ago when I was looking for a used car for work. Every car with a slightly lower than average price would be rusted all to hell underneath. Then, when I'd run the VIN I would see that it had been registered in the Northeast, usually NJ, PA or OH.
 
People searching for a permanent go to solution that does not exist. Rust is just a matter of time and proper conditions from appearing, and who ever is claiming one product superior over other is a fool who is a victim of marketing.
Every single thread on this subject has one thing in common - no one knows anything but they think they know it all. Everyone simply recites what label says.

I am from Florida, and currently staying in Maryland. Overall, cars in Florida are in good condition, but we also have cars that are not is so good condition with rotted body. One interesting thing i have noticed, how close one lives to the ocean make little to no difference. What really rusts cars in FL is when they are parked on grass and not driven for a long time. Sun and humidity are really good friends with rust.
Over the last few years i had to leave states for prolonged times. Jeep was parked over entire summer and sometimes into the winter, and when i came back i started noticing rust in places that was not there before. I would clean it up, drive around for entire year and everything would be good and clean.

If i was to take a daily driver and used FF or Eastwood on it, im sure they both would work very well. Eastwood would probably be a better option due to not having to reapply it for a good foreseeable future. If i had a project car that i was working on in my backyard over a period of many years, i guarantee humidity would find every imperfection in Eastwood coating, and abuse with rust.

When i came to Maryland, everything started rusting at double time pace. I have coated shocks and ball joints with Eastwood encapsulator, multiple coats, all of them have rust marks now. In Maryland i can not have the same mentality and approach to rust prevention as i did in FL. Nothing is rust proof, and nothing is permanent. So with this mentality, when it comes to FF vs Eastwood, FF is a superior option because when i apply it i know that there is nothing in between FF and surface. When FF gets washed off, there is still oily layer of it doing its job and i can add more if needed. With Eastwood, you have no assurance that your initial coat was done properly and you have no assurance that when winter comes, it will not crack and let moisture in. You can add more layers of Eastwood on top of previous, but that wont stop anything.

Different scenario but related subject:
Bedlining your interior, go and ready every threat that we and internet have on it here. Roughly half and half split in opinions, some like it, some hate it, all based on amateur feelings. I personally thought it was a good idea, just read what label says: "protects surface from damage, protects against rust, strops existing rust from getting worse" ... and bla bla bla, magic solution to all your problems. So i did it, took entire day and night to put 5 coats of what ever brand i picked up at homedepo.
Few years forward, i noticed a little orange spot on top of black bedliner surface, just like the color of clay dirt we have in FL. i scratched it, and scratched it more and i realize that it not dirt, there is rust forming under bedliner. Why it has failed, it can be debated until sun comes up. Point is that, despite all the magic claims on the label, which is exatly what we amateur non-experts judge products by, it was not a permanent apply and forget solution.
PXL_20211009_220833790.jpg
 
People searching for a permanent go to solution that does not exist. Rust is just a matter of time and proper conditions from appearing, and who ever is claiming one product superior over other is a fool who is a victim of marketing.
Every single thread on this subject has one thing in common - no one knows anything but they think they know it all. Everyone simply recites what label says.

I am from Florida, and currently staying in Maryland. Overall, cars in Florida are in good condition, but we also have cars that are not is so good condition with rotted body. One interesting thing i have noticed, how close one lives to the ocean make little to no difference. What really rusts cars in FL is when they are parked on grass and not driven for a long time. Sun and humidity are really good friends with rust.
Over the last few years i had to leave states for prolonged times. Jeep was parked over entire summer and sometimes into the winter, and when i came back i started noticing rust in places that was not there before. I would clean it up, drive around for entire year and everything would be good and clean.

If i was to take a daily driver and used FF or Eastwood on it, im sure they both would work very well. Eastwood would probably be a better option due to not having to reapply it for a good foreseeable future. If i had a project car that i was working on in my backyard over a period of many years, i guarantee humidity would find every imperfection in Eastwood coating, and abuse with rust.

When i came to Maryland, everything started rusting at double time pace. I have coated shocks and ball joints with Eastwood encapsulator, multiple coats, all of them have rust marks now. In Maryland i can not have the same mentality and approach to rust prevention as i did in FL. Nothing is rust proof, and nothing is permanent. So with this mentality, when it comes to FF vs Eastwood, FF is a superior option because when i apply it i know that there is nothing in between FF and surface. When FF gets washed off, there is still oily layer of it doing its job and i can add more if needed. With Eastwood, you have no assurance that your initial coat was done properly and you have no assurance that when winter comes, it will not crack and let moisture in. You can add more layers of Eastwood on top of previous, but that wont stop anything.

Different scenario but related subject:
Bedlining your interior, go and ready every threat that we and internet have on it here. Roughly half and half split in opinions, some like it, some hate it, all based on amateur feelings. I personally thought it was a good idea, just read what label says: "protects surface from damage, protects against rust, strops existing rust from getting worse" ... and bla bla bla, magic solution to all your problems. So i did it, took entire day and night to put 5 coats of what ever brand i picked up at homedepo.
Few years forward, i noticed a little orange spot on top of black bedliner surface, just like the color of clay dirt we have in FL. i scratched it, and scratched it more and i realize that it not dirt, there is rust forming under bedliner. Why it has failed, it can be debated until sun comes up. Point is that, despite all the magic claims on the label, which is exatly what we amateur non-experts judge products by, it was not a permanent apply and forget solution.
View attachment 359646

This matches my experience. When it comes to rust there is no set it and forget it solution, and living in the rust belt makes things so much more difficult.
 
When it comes to rust there is no set it and forget it solution, and living in the rust belt makes things so much more difficult.

You guys in the salty Northeastern states probably already know this, but years ago I was tasked with figuring out the best method of washing salt off of company snow equipment. I came across a published paper from some state university that determined hot water and dish soap sprayed most effectively removed the salt. That was compared to plain water and salt remover products. I tried to find the paper again, but I couldn't locate it.
 
You guys in the salty Northeastern states probably already know this, but years ago I was tasked with figuring out the best method of washing salt off of company snow equipment. I came across a published paper from some state university that determined hot water and dish soap sprayed most effectively removed the salt. That was compared to plain water and salt remover products. I tried to find the paper again, but I couldn't locate it.

Wouldn't the dish soap also remove any surface protection such as wax? I've always used dish soap prior to waxing or clay baring a vehicle.
 
Wouldn't the dish soap also remove any surface protection such as wax? I've always used dish soap prior to waxing or clay baring a vehicle.

Maybe, I'm not sure how FF reacts to something like dish soap. For the purpose I had at that time, we wanted to remove the most salt with the least cost, and the only protective coating on the equipment was excess grease. The paper that I found was a study funded by whatever state DOT who was looking to do the same. I don't remember if they mentioned any products like Fluid Film or not, but I do remember they compared a few "salt remover" products, and determined those barely did anything more than just flushing with plain water. Adding dish soap to hot water removed nearly all of it. All the testing was done on state trucks that sprayed salt.

If interested, someone that has more time might be able to find the study from circa 2012.
 
You guys in the salty Northeastern states probably already know this, but years ago I was tasked with figuring out the best method of washing salt off of company snow equipment. I came across a published paper from some state university that determined hot water and dish soap sprayed most effectively removed the salt. That was compared to plain water and salt remover products. I tried to find the paper again, but I couldn't locate it.

Warm water is a very effective salt remover.
In gun word we have corrosive ammo, it is not unusual to have cycling action seize up after shooting it withing a week if it is not cleaned promptly. And believe me, you will lose your brain cells while reading through all the retardation people go through to clean their rifles. Its like engine oil debates on steroids, you can become chemist just from reading what snake oil they mix.
Simply warm water is all you need. Dont have warm, cold will do the trick too. Best is hot water, because it evaporates from the metal surface and you are not left with post water rust.
Not sure about soap, it removes oils and oil protects surface.
 
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You guys in the salty Northeastern states probably already know this, but years ago I was tasked with figuring out the best method of washing salt off of company snow equipment. I came across a published paper from some state university that determined hot water and dish soap sprayed most effectively removed the salt. That was compared to plain water and salt remover products. I tried to find the paper again, but I couldn't locate it.

That method works well to remove fluid film as well.
 
CRC 06026 Marine Heavy Duty Corrosion Inhibitor works well on salt water exposed steel here in S. Fl.
My bare cast iron trailer hubs still dont have any major rust after 12 years. 20 to 40 dunkings a year. FF is impossible to find here. If it worked do well, the marine stores would be stocked with it.
 
CRC 06026 Marine Heavy Duty Corrosion Inhibitor works well on salt water exposed steel here in S. Fl.
My bare cast iron trailer hubs still dont have any major rust after 12 years. 20 to 40 dunkings a year. FF is impossible to find here. If it worked do well, the marine stores would be stocked with it.

Amazon is your friend.

Good point on following the marine industry.
 
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CRC 06026 Marine Heavy Duty Corrosion Inhibitor works well on salt water exposed steel here in S. Fl.
My bare cast iron trailer hubs still dont have any major rust after 12 years. 20 to 40 dunkings a year. FF is impossible to find here. If it worked do well, the marine stores would be stocked with it.

Yeah Fluid Film wouldn't be my first choice for anything that is in the water often. In fact it has to be reapplied to the fender wells throughout the winter because it will get washed off by the salt/bring water, whereas most other places it lasts throughout the year. I imagine CRC would last in the fender wells better. But Fluid Film is a great choice up here because it will creep to spots you missed/can't see, and creep to cover any spots that get rubbed/scratched and prevent them from rusting. That CRC stuff dries hard and doesn't creep like that. So lots of water contact, CRC seems like the better product. Lots of hidden nooks and crannies, Fluid Film is going to get to them better.
 
Fluid Film works well................until you drive on salted roads. Then you have to immediately go to the car wash to spray the salt off AND the Fluid Film comes off with it. :rolleyes:
p.s. I always wash underneath my Jeep with soap and water. Especially in the winter. 🤫
 
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Fluid Film works well................until you drive on salted roads. Then you have to immediately go to the car wash to spray the salt off AND the Fluid Film comes off with it. :rolleyes:
p.s. I always wash underneath my Jeep with soap and water. Especially in the winter. 🤫

Fluid film works great if you don't wash it away. Salt won't do anything on areas with fluid film on them. If you want to wash the underside of your vehicle that way in the winter then I think something like that CRC marine may be OK. I haven't used it through a winter yet but I did test it out some. When I said it dries "hard" really it was like candle wax. It will wear off eventually but I think it would probably hold up to a wash. Maybe not with hot water and high pressure, though.
 
What many of the "paint don't FF" crowd don't understand is that when you live in the Northeast and you use your Jeep as a daily driver, that paint don't last worth shit. You will never get every crack, crevice, nook or cranny with paint inside that frame. In the NE, that salt and slop is there almost non-stop from December to the end of March. It's relentless. You could wash your Jeep frame out everyday and at the end of the season, the orange/red "seasoned" stuff is back in all those small areas even if you took time to use Eastwoods stuff. Some days you can't even wash it well as it's too cold and it will just freeze. Not to mention that most car washes re-use the water and it's full of salt as well.

My Jeep stays in the garage from November to April. My kid's Jeeps, however, are daily driven. FF once in November and they're fine. My son's '03 Jeep has been daily driven from 2013 until now. It gets FF every year and his frame, torque boxes, and tub is just as it was when he bought it; rust free. My daughter's Jeep is driven every day as she commutes near Boston to Gloucester, MA near the ocean. She certainly gets salt everywhere and is not great at getting it washed. So when she comes home, I go through it and check it over. After nearly 4 years of this commuting, there is not any further corrosion than when we first got it.

While I would like to not have to use the FF on these vehicles, in the northeast, it's unavoidable.

BTW, neither of those Jeeps drips on the driveway or in the garage. If using the proper air gun to apply, I have not had any issues.

Couldn't have said it better. Living in the NE I follow your exact routine. And agree that no internal paint can stand up to the salt and snow we get here. I remember counting how many times a month my city sprayed their corrosive chemicals on the road. Literally almost weekly where I live. Every TJ within 200 miles of me that is daily driven in the winter is shot! Holes and bubbles everywhere from body to frame. The only guy I know nearby that kept his clean has his lathered with bearing grease and motor oil and that too (as disgusting as it is) truly preserved his 03'.

As a former user of Eastwood, I don't stand by their claims.

EDIT: @Mobusaki - Good call. That CRC marine is tough as nails and truly adheres like a solidified flexible wax. I applied that to my end links and they're spotless and rust-free for over 5 years.
 
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I agree not to wash fluid film. I applied quite a bit of it on my underside (6 cans) in January and even after trying to purposely wash it off for 2 hours it still isn't gone yet. And that's not including all the short washes I did (25-30 times). I think eastwood+fluid film is a great combo for inside the frame. Just don't be stupid like me and make sure all the holes are taped off that you won't be spraying through. I almost got eastwood on my bodywork!! Oh and that begs the next question what to do with the barely painted factory floorboards when you live in the northeast. I think rubberized encapsulator or bedliner works great IF the surface is immaculate before spraying. Otherwise it just traps rust and makes it worse. Yea being in CNY it can be quite bad during winter, but last few years have been really mild. I love driving in the snow I just wish the salt wasn't an issue. I guess that's why I beat on my pos TJ and LJR is the garage queen.
 
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I agree not to wash fluid film. I applied quite a bit of it on my underside (6 cans) in January and even after trying to purposely wash it off for 2 hours it still isn't gone yet. And that's not including all the short washes I did (25-30 times). I think eastwood+fluid film is a great combo for inside the frame. Just don't be stupid like me and make sure all the holes are taped off that you won't be spraying through. I almost got eastwood on my bodywork!! Oh and that begs the next question what to do with the barely painted factory floorboards when you live in the northeast. I think rubberized encapsulator or bedliner works great IF the surface is immaculate before spraying. Otherwise it just traps rust and makes it worse. Yea being in CNY it can be quite bad during winter, but last few years have been really mild. I love driving in the snow I just wish the salt wasn't an issue. I guess that's why I beat on my pos TJ and LJR is the garage queen.

Im on the hunt now for a "beater" auto
TJ or YJ for the wife and I to enjoy in the snow. But the decent one's are all down south and in the south west. My luck the 'new' one will be so clean and costly that I'll garage it too. 🙃 And it'll still get a coat a FF or CRC marine. Been using it for over 6 years and factually know it's claims have worked for my set-up.
 
Im on the hunt now for a "beater" auto
TJ or YJ for the wife and I to enjoy in the snow. But the decent one's are all down south and in the south west. My luck the 'new' one will be so clean and costly that I'll garage it too. 🙃 And it'll still get a coat a FF or CRC marine. Been using it for over 6 years and factually know it's claims have worked for my set-up.

If you have the garage space just do eeet, make a mini vacation out of it. Get the cleanest one you can garage it, DD the rustier of the two. That way in 20 years when there really really aren't any TJs left you have something to fall back on that hasn't been torn apart and put back together again multiple times.
 
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Fluid Film works well................until you drive on salted roads. Then you have to immediately go to the car wash to spray the salt off AND the Fluid Film comes off with it. :rolleyes:
p.s. I always wash underneath my Jeep with soap and water. Especially in the winter. 🤫

I have the outside of the rails and most of the undercarriage done in POR15. The FF is only being applied to the inside of the rails. Even so, I hit the drive-thru self wash booths pretty often in the winter months and certainly when there is snow.
 
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