Doesn't matter what tricked your eyes. I told you what the axle widths were and if you know anything about me, you absolutely know I don't lie about that shit and have no reason to.
Doesn't matter what tricked your eyes. I told you what the axle widths were and if you know anything about me, you absolutely know I don't lie about that shit and have no reason to.
I can't exclude the possibility of tradeoffs, I'd just like to see them disccuss in more detail than just PlAtFoRm CoNsTrAiNtS.
This is the statement that this (and so many other) threads ought to end with.
As far as TJs go the obsession with spring rates is unfounded.
If you want to talk about spring rates and race cars, that's another story.
I don't have the bandwidth to take on another forum and spend the time necessary to figure out which users are talking out their ass and which ones are credible, and we have a wide enough range of offroaders here, including at least one member that seems to play in both worlds, that we should be able to talk about it. It's sure as shit more relevant than the religion, guns, and politics subforums we have here.
There is really little benefit to a good honest discussion about much when so many are still struggling with just the basics. I'll be glad to discuss anything of value and importance the day that everyone accepts the truth about springs and pulls their heads out of their asses. You figure out how to make that happen and away we go, until then, not so much because why?
The distinction is the tube frame chassis can build in enough suspension up travel to set that belly on the ground if the shocks are removed. LJ's cant do that because its a different animal. Sure You can back halve it and essentially remove the frame above the rear axle, run the upper shock mounts off the roll cage. In the front its usually the engine that stops the axle from going more up. So You can remove the front frame and stretch the wheelbase enough that the axle goes in front of the engine at full compression. Hard mount the engine off the front cage so the driveshaft doesn't hit the engine mounts. Hang the radiators off the back of the roll cage. but the 3 feet of TJ frame you have left really isn't a TJ anymore. Sure its all fascinating stuff but the point is...
Trying to make a TJ or LJ "LCOG" without making HUGE compromises and modifications will net you a useless turd of a jeep with 2" of up-travel that can't even handle the speed bumps at the mall at more than 5 mph.
You continue to obfuscate, and I think to some level intentionally. This is in the same vein as the bomber fab comparison - what is missing is the context of that statement. All that needs to be said on this topic has been said multiple times over. Below is one of the best summaries - and I am sharing this not for you, but for others that may see this ClusterF of a thread and happen to come this far out.
Yes.
There are. And while that is what we are here for it does not mean we should box ourselves in either.
Comparing does not work per se but maybe the conversation could be asking what works on a Bomber and could that be adapted to a TJ?
True but no reason it can not be discussed.
More like comparing a Granny smith to a Honeycrisp. Apples and oranges would be comparing a TJ to a Willie Boat.
No the point is vector analysis.
I am talking rear suspension here, think of the vector created between the tire patch and the lower arm front pivot point. That is the vector of the force of the tire traction of acting upon the chassis. A LA with a pivot point lower than a comparable short arm will push the forward while a short arm with a high pivot point will push the chassis more vertically.
The beauty of the short arm/mid arm in the rocks is that it this vector helps left the chassis up and over the rock while the LA will tend to push the chassis into the rock. But the trade off is forward force along the plane of the ground.
The problem for the SA is in handling things like whoops, because every time the tire gets traction it pushes the rear of the vehicle up more than a LA setup would. The genius of the Savvy "mid arm" is it great in the boulder fields of Johnson Valley if you like crawling and modern shock technology allows folks the Blaine to mitigate much of the hop problem in the rough for the TJ guys and girls.
With the extra wheel base of a LJ it lends it to a Bomber style suspension, longer arms, more articulation, lower CG and lower pickup points. I use the Bomber example simply because it is easy visualize the suspension being it not hidden by the body. That same suspension design the bomber can be adapted to any LJ but won't work on the TJ.
The LJ guys have more options, sorry TJ owners
P.S. The above is only one element od the suspension comparison.
Last edited:
thank you.
I wish we could separate the term "LCOG" from the stigma it gets from misguided builds with 2" of uptravel. In truth, most of the respected builds in this forum are lcog compared to doing a 6" suspension lift because of how much work is done to match the uptravel of a taller lift without going above 4".
I have a buddy with a 5.5" lifted TJ on I-don't-know-whose longarm kit, where the belly is dropped (but still not as low as the factory skid) to provide more VS @ frame. The belly height is likely very similar to my SA 4+1.25 with UCF extra clearance skid, our uptravel is probably similar but he has more downtravel. Is my build inherently more capable from having a flatter belly? If so, is the right reason to say that "because buggies use dropped bellys and buggies aren't TJs"?
I didn't know there were people still stuck on the spring thing, other than the occasional forum noob that comes in trying to fix the crap riding TJ they just bought either already lifted or that they lifted with a $500 kit. But I don't read every thread here.
It is very much a thing, and not just with newbies. People with 20+ years of "experience" have come and argued about it very recently.
BEST NON WELCOME THREAD WELCOME THREAD EVER!
I'm jealous. My welcome thread got like 4 responses. This is bullshit.
it's certainly unfortunate that we all suffer for the sins of a few.
ranger101
TJ Addict
Isn't the point that 20+years experience doesn't guarantee you're not a newb!
Try to convince them of that
And hence the attitude of few folks here that try to make sure that people stay in context because, otherwise there is no useful discussion or dissemination whatsoever of factual information. I'm talking about people like the person you thought was information policing and you very harshly asked to go away. If they do go away, all you will have is noise. Context is important and should not be forgotten.