Thoughts on suspension / lift on future EV rigs

Honestly I can see a dedicated EV offroad rig. Something trailered to/from the trails. But that would be completely custom.
As far as modification to stock EVs making them offroad capable. It wont be difficult. Longer A-Arms, better coilovers, upgraded steering and some match dimension RCV shafts, your set! Running 37s on your Rivian/Lightning. I think portals of any kind would hinder the range too much. You don't need to worry to much about gearing but would likely need to teach the computer to compensate just as we do know with the ECU. A Rivian with 37" tires, factory lockers and instant torque would be "capable" of most trails. Might want some armor first.

And I know people keep saying EV just isn't catching on. Well maybe where you live. EVs count for about 20% of the cars on the road here. Hybrid another 20-30%. Rivian marketed their truck as an outdoor capable rig and that it is. People in CA are using them as such, well within the 200 mile range;)

I'm gonna start disigning up some suspension parts for the Lightning and Sierra EVs...:sneaky:
 
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Glad to hear someone is thinking about aftermarket on the future rigs - thinking about it - a 2022 JLU is not much different than a Jeep 25years older. I’m certain a 2045 Jeep suspension will be nothing like a 2022.
4wd solid axle design will probably be obsolete ( meaning not offered on new vehicles) in the next 10 years. That leaves a massive hole in the axle industry. It’s concerning to me what these companies ( employees) will do if the demand dwindled.
I’m a stones throw from you ( San Jose) and agree - EVs are everywhere around here - for obvious reasons ( Tesla and Rivian among others are either r/d or manufacturing here.) along with pioneering battery tech.
When you come up with a design scheme- I for1 would like to see it - CAD / napkin sketch whatever! rj
 
4wd solid axle design will probably be obsolete ( meaning not offered on new vehicles) in the next 10 years. That leaves a massive hole in the axle industry. It’s concerning to me what these companies ( employees) will do if the demand dwindled.
As long as there is demand companies will continue making and modifying solid axles for older vehicles and solid axle swaps. I wonder if there are enough of us around to create that demand?

Very few will have the means to SAS a new Rivian but one that is ten years old? Might be a thing.
 
And I know people keep saying EV just isn't catching on. Well maybe where you live. EVs count for about 20% of the cars on the road here.
A simple google search (one of the top results) of vehicles registered in CA indicated 20% is a gross exaggeration, or terrible math. Looks a lot closer to 3% in CA to me. Even the new car sales is showing only around 8%.

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2021 registered vehicle data
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Car & Driver, national data Aug '22 https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a39998609/electric-car-sales-usa/

What Percentage of New Car Sales are Electric?​

The sharp increase in electric-vehicle registrations at the start of 2022 meant that the EV share of the overall market in the U.S. hit a historic 4.6 percent.... Currently, it's estimated that around 1 percent of the 250 million cars, SUVs, and light-duty trucks on American roads are electric.

As far as modification to stock EVs making them offroad capable. It wont be difficult. Longer A-Arms, better coilovers

So lifting an independent suspension is that simple? Then why do guys with independent suspensions spend thousands of $$$ and many hours doing solid axle swaps? It's not for comfort and drivability. ;)
 
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As long as there is demand companies will

That's the key for any successful product, and why I don't see a serious off-road product market for true EVs in the reasonably near future.
Very few will have the means to SAS a new Rivian but one that is ten years old? Might be a thing.

I'm thinking 10+ year old EVs will be like 10+ year old smartphones. The body and chassis might be there....
 
A simple google search (one of the top results) of vehicles registered in CA indicated 20% is a gross exaggeration, or terrible math. Looks a lot closer to 3% in CA to me. Even the new car sales is showing only around 8%.

View attachment 377430

View attachment 377426

2021 registered vehicle data
View attachment 377429

Car & Driver, national data Aug '22 https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a39998609/electric-car-sales-usa/

What Percentage of New Car Sales are Electric?​

The sharp increase in electric-vehicle registrations at the start of 2022 meant that the EV share of the overall market in the U.S. hit a historic 4.6 percent.... Currently, it's estimated that around 1 percent of the 250 million cars, SUVs, and light-duty trucks on American roads are electric.



So lifting an independent suspension is that simple? Then why do guys with independent suspensions spend thousands of $$$ and many hours doing solid axle swaps? It's not for comfort and drivability. ;)

So the last census collected data I could find for registered personnel vehicles is CA listed 14.2 million in 2020 (that 17.7mil number was 2010 census). Nearly 30mil registered gas vehicles in CA, huge amount of commercial vehicles. Matched with your data of registered 425,300 registered electric vehicles in 2020 gives CA a nearly 30% EVs for personnel uses.

Good site for the newest data: https://afdc.energy.gov/transatlas/#/?state=CA&fuel=ELEC

And yes lifting a independent suspension is that easy. You can add a couple inches of lift to Toyota, Chevy, Dodge, etc with standard tools in a garage in weekend, done plenty. I don't think we are comparing buggies to EVs.
 
A simple google search (one of the top results) of vehicles registered in CA indicated 20% is a gross exaggeration, or terrible math. Looks a lot closer to 3% in CA to me. Even the new car sales is showing only around 8%.

View attachment 377430

View attachment 377426

2021 registered vehicle data
View attachment 377429

Car & Driver, national data Aug '22 https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a39998609/electric-car-sales-usa/

What Percentage of New Car Sales are Electric?​

The sharp increase in electric-vehicle registrations at the start of 2022 meant that the EV share of the overall market in the U.S. hit a historic 4.6 percent.... Currently, it's estimated that around 1 percent of the 250 million cars, SUVs, and light-duty trucks on American roads are electric.



So lifting an independent suspension is that simple? Then why do guys with independent suspensions spend thousands of $$$ and many hours doing solid axle swaps? It's not for comfort and drivability. ;)
As long as the vehicle isn't unibody construction it isn't terribly difficult.
 
So the last census collected data I could find for registered personnel vehicles is CA listed 14.2 million in 2020 (that 17.7mil number was 2010 census). Nearly 30mil registered gas vehicles in CA, huge amount of commercial vehicles. Matched with your data of registered 425,300 registered electric vehicles in 2020 gives CA a nearly 30% EVs for personnel uses.

I'd like to dig into these numbers with you further, but I'm very limited on time right now. Assuming the 425,300 EVs in CA (I wonder how many of those are fleet vehicles) is accurate, and at a 30% rate, that would indicate there are only 1,417,667 vehicles in CA. I don't know for sure, but I’d guess that the greater LA area alone has more registered vehicles than that. My stated 3% would have registered vehicles in the 14,000,000+ range.

I'm genuinely curious about the numbers, as accurate as we can find them, to see what the actual market size is. Until then, I'll assume Car & Driver's 1% EVs nationwide is accurate, although I've read elsewhere that it's closer to 2%. Maybe one of those includes fleet vehicles and the other doesn't. Either way, it's still a small, niche market.
 
As long as the vehicle isn't unibody construction it isn't terribly difficult.

I'm rather familiar with vehicles, and I understand the various types of suspensions and how they work, but for some reason I'm having trouble visualizing why a unibody vehicle would present problems above and beyond what a sub or full frame vehicle would encounter when changing the suspension.
 
I'd like to dig into these numbers with you further, but I'm very limited on time right now. Assuming the 425,300 EVs in CA (I wonder how many of those are fleet vehicles) is accurate, and at a 30% rate, that would indicate there are only 1,417,667 vehicles in CA. I don't know for sure, but I’d guess that the greater LA area alone has more registered vehicles than that. My stated 3% would have registered vehicles in the 14,000,000+ range.

I'm genuinely curious about the numbers, as accurate as we can find them, to see what the actual market size is. Until then, I'll assume Car & Driver's 1% EVs nationwide is accurate, although I've read elsewhere that it's closer to 2%. Maybe one of those includes fleet vehicles and the other doesn't. Either way, it's still a small, niche market.

Shits. You’re right, my math was broken. I was missing just one thing, that extra zero, you know that last ten million cars.
 
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we can't afford 100k $ cars

Neither can the vast majority of Americans. That's why the gov has to subsidized them trying to open up the market to a few more buyers so the politicians can get a better ROI in their stock portfolio.

** I will go no further into the politics of it here **
 
30% of Californians?we can't afford 100k $ cars. we're too busy trying to make due in this terribly expensive state

Idk, considering the cost of a lot gas vehicles, EV’s are looking cheaper and cheaper. Performance wise they can blow the doors of a conventional gas engine.

EV’s take way less labor to produce, and as the factories become more and more into EV’s, the cost will drop. Add in reduced labor to build and future advancements in automation, I don’t see how EV’s won’t become mainstream
 
Performance wise they can blow the doors of a conventional gas engine.

This is something constantly said by EV people, yet there are plenty of videos of AWD Teslas lining up against similarly priced vehicles, like a RWD Hellcat, and loosing at the end of the track. So the AWD tesla has the jump from the line due to traction, as AWD vehicles tend to, but looses when traction, speed and power come in.

EV’s take way less labor to produce

How so? What part(s) of an EV is easier to produce?

Idk, considering the cost of a lot gas vehicles, EV’s are looking more competative price wise

I do agree with that. Vehicle prices have gotten out of control. It's nothing to see a new Chevy/Ford/Dodge truck with a sticker price of $80,000+
 
This is something constantly said by EV people, yet there are plenty of videos of AWD Teslas lining up against similarly priced vehicles, like a RWD Hellcat, and loosing at the end of the track. So the AWD tesla has the jump from the line due to traction, as AWD vehicles tend to, but looses when traction, speed and power come in.



How so? What part(s) of an EV is easier to produce?



I do agree with that. Vehicle prices have gotten out of control. It's nothing to see a new Chevy/Ford/Dodge truck with a sticker price of $80,000+

I believe it was GM that just stated with EV it’s 40% less labor to produce. The cost in goods is still high, but if you take into account advancement in tech, prices will fall. You could apply Moores law to it.


There are some people adapting all this electric tech outside of the box, aka guys throwing Tesla motors into side by sides.

Once people realize the potential, which I’m sure will take time, most people hate change in general, it will take off.

Isn’t there even a new drag racing class just for EV’s, I’m not 100% sure, but I thought I have seen something on it.

Like any new tech, there will be bumps along the way, but with tech there will be great advancement.
 
Isn’t there even a new drag racing class just for EV’s, I’m not 100% sure, but I thought I have seen something on it.

Not in NHRA. I remember seeing some guys pushing for it 5-10 years ago, but it's still not a thing with NHRA. I'm sure somewhere there is an EV drag racing series. I've actually seen a couple of EV drag races. 1 motorcycle, 1 purpose built S10. They were running a 1/4 mile track in the 150 range. I remember they hurt my ears as they took off with an ear piercing high-pitched screech.

When you look into EV racing, they really aren't fast. The current EV land speed record is 229.36 mph for a streamliner vehicle, and as far as I know, the fastest EV dragster barely made it to 200 mph, and most run closer to 150-160. Lots of turbo 4 cylinder street cars are running that now.

I believe it was GM that just stated with EV it’s 40% less labor to produce

Interesting. I'll try to look into that. I wonder how much of that is because they aren't building certain components like batteries etc.

There are some people adapting all this electric tech outside of the box, aka guys throwing Tesla motors into side by sides.

I haven't seen that yet. That's probably scary.

Like any new tech, there will be bumps along the way, but with tech there will be great advancement.

I think the power source will remain as the limiting factor. If they can figure out a way to shed the battery weight while gaining in energy storage, then I think EVs will become something more than just a toy. Until then, I think they're doomed just as they have been for decades now.
 
I think the power source will remain as the limiting factor. If they can figure out a way to shed the battery weight while gaining in energy storage, then I think EVs will become something more than just a toy. Until then, I think they're doomed just as they have been for decades now.

Power source will continue to be the long pole for some time. I believe every company understands the need but no solutions yet. Need a universal source that can be interchangeable. Could shed some weight knowing that there was a charged battery waiting for you at a “charge change station”, something like a gas station. Still a ways off but one of those things where the government might have to come in with regulations. It’s still a concept but slowly gaining traction elsewhere. With states pushing EVs I could see this becoming a trial here.
Battery Swap
 
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