Death wobble woes

7slotMT

7slotMT

Member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2019
Messages
78
Location
Missoula, MT
Yes another death wobble thread.

But this one is not like any of the others! šŸ˜‚šŸ¤”

I have been chasing death wobble now for what seems like way too long. Happens at 55 to 60 and yes its DW, no mistaking it.
Quick stats: currie 4" kit, 1.25 MML, adjustable uppers/lowers, Dana 30 caster set to 6Ā° through 12Ā° of separation (haven't had it verified by alignment shop but steering return to center is good), 10 yr old KM2's just rebalanced (going to swap a good set of blizzaks on to see if I can reproduce it, but haven't yet), 1/8" toe in.

I have pry bar'd from under the tires and the ball joints look fine, the 3/9 o'clock test seems good and tight I was worried about a possible wollowed out track bar hole so I welded a thick ass washer to eliminate that possibility. Retorqued the track bar. Running out of ideas... here's a YouTube video...


Any help would be awesome, thank you!
 
Last edited:
10 yr old KM2ā€™s. Hard to believe theyā€™d be round, not cupped. See what happens when you swap the blizzaks.

1/8ā€ toe in at 24ā€

As long as the trackbar is torqued to spec and the joints are good you it should be fine there.
 
JMT said:
10 yr old KM2ā€™s. Hard to believe theyā€™d be round, not cupped. See what happens when you swap the blizzaks.

1/8ā€ toe in at 24ā€

As long as the trackbar is torqued to spec and the joints are good you it should be fine there.
Click to expand...

I did a fairly decent job of rotating them regularly and the shocks have always been good so cupping hasn't been an issue. It's been a while since I did the toe but I believe it's at 1/8" at 33". Less toe-in overall would mask DW wouldn't it? So if I were at 1/8" at 24" vs 33 I would experience DW more with the former and less with the latter?
Agree though I need to get those other tires on and see if it goes away.
 
7slotMT said:
I did a fairly decent job of rotating them regularly and the shocks have always been good so cupping hasn't been an issue. It's been a while since I did the toe but I believe it's at 1/8" at 33". Less toe-in overall would mask DW wouldn't it? So if I were at 1/8" at 24" vs 33 I would experience DW more with the former and less with the latter?
Agree though I need to get those other tires on and see if it goes away.
Click to expand...

Toe out rather than just toe in less. Not sure how much a difference it would make still toe in but not enough to be in the parameters.

Iā€™d personally say 10 yr old tires are too old to be on the road. I had a set of 31ā€™s that I had balanced three times to no avail. Changed tires and no other changes and it all went away.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheBoogieman
7slotMT said:
šŸ˜‚ You think I'm wet noodling down the highway? Fair point though, might as well put a zj tie rod on while I build my front axle.
Click to expand...

I will say I went with the heavy duty tie rod, even after installing an adjustable track rod and could tell the difference!!!!

I wheeled and DD on 33 12.50 15 MTZ mud tires that were 2011 2012 vintage and never had any balancing problems.
 
If youā€™ve done all the normal tests and the tires donā€™t make a change you need to toe it out 5/8 of an inch and drive it and see what happens

If that stops it take a hard look at your front upper passenger side control arm bushing and if you replace it go ahead and do the one behind the differential

If you want something really durable put in the currie Johnny Joints- They sell a kit that reinforces the mount that they have had good success with.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: John Cooper, CharlesHS and Jerry Bransford
AndyG said:
If youā€™ve done all the normal tests and the tires donā€™t make a change you need to toe it out 5/8 of an inch and drive it and see what happens

If that stops it take a hard look at your front upper passenger side control arm bushing and if you replace it go ahead and do the one behind the differential

If you want something really durable put in the currie Johnny Joints- They sell a kit that reinforces the amount that they have had good success with.
Click to expand...

Listen to @AndyG on this!!!!! My 06 Rubicon he built rides like a dream!!!!!! Heck it wouldn't hurt to replace both of those anyway!!!!!
 
One thing to remember is a pry bar and human strength canā€™t come close to the force joints take when the vehicle is in motion.
 
  • Like
Reactions: John Cooper
AndyG said:
If youā€™ve done all the normal tests and the tires donā€™t make a change you need to toe it out 5/8 of an inch and drive it and see what happens

If that stops it take a hard look at your front upper passenger side control arm bushing and if you replace it go ahead and do the one behind the differential

If you want something really durable put in the currie Johnny Joints- They sell a kit that reinforces the mount that they have had good success with.
Click to expand...
Awesome thank you! I've been hesitant at replacing those axle bushings since I plan to swap in a Dana 44 to match a Ford 9 I'm finishing up and putting in but I will swap the tires and go from there. I plan on going with Johnny joints in the axle on the 44, but might just throw new napa rubbers on for now if I change them.

I just got married in April and my wife just asked me the other day... "So the Jeep... Are we keeping it?!"šŸ˜‚ I told her jeep life is a preexisting condition and she entered a contract with me knowing of my illnessšŸ¤£
 
  • Haha
  • Like
Reactions: Matt1964, Jeep 541X, John Cooper and 1 other person
7slotMT said:
I just got married in April and my wife just asked me the other day... "So the Jeep... Are we keeping it?!"šŸ˜‚ I told her jeep life is a preexisting condition and she entered a contract with me knowing of my illnessšŸ¤£
Click to expand...
Another new member who's going to fit in quite nicely here!!! :love: :ROFLMAO:
 
  • Like
  • Haha
  • Love
Reactions: 7slotMT, Jeep 541X, John Cooper and 1 other person
Jerry Bransford said:
Another new member who's going to fit in quite nicely here!!! :love: :ROFLMAO:
Click to expand...

Exactly, Iā€™m liking this guy already- a clevite works good if its in good shape, but on the front upper right the mount tends to elongate where it fits- so be conscious it goes in tight- movement is movement and track bar/coil spring front ends only like controlled movement.

On the ā€œare we keeping itā€ question, Iā€™d say - ā€œno, I am. You can keep away from it .ā€ šŸ¤£šŸ¤£. She may get mad and cry a few hours, but deep down inside she will want you to get lockers and bigger tires. Men and women just communicate different.
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: 7slotMT and John Cooper
AndyG said:
Exactly, Iā€™m liking this guy already- a clevite works good if its in good shape, but on the front upper right the mount tends to elongate where it fits- so be conscious it goes in tight- movement is movement and track bar/coil spring front ends only like controlled movement.

On the ā€œare we keeping itā€ question, Iā€™d say - ā€œno, I am. You can keep away from it .ā€ šŸ¤£šŸ¤£. She may get mad and cry a few hours, but deep down inside she will want you to get lockers and bigger tires. Men and women just communicate different.
Click to expand...

@AndyG is wise, listen to him!!!!!! Well most of the time, there was this one wheeling trip where a J/K got more Ducks than @AndyG......

Well I will let @tr21triton and @Hog finish the story as they were closer to the action than I was. :cool: :cool: šŸ¤«
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Jerry Bransford and tr21triton
John Cooper said:
@AndyG is wise, listen to him!!!!!! Well most of the time, there was this one wheeling trip where a J/K got more Ducks than @AndyG......

Well I will let @tr21triton and @Hog finish the story as they were closer to the action than I was. :cool: :cool: šŸ¤«
Click to expand...

yea but the DUCK count was closer than a election, final score was 100/99 so Andy only lost by 1 !!!! :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: John Cooper and 7slotMT
10 year old tires??!! The average life expectation is like after 4 years should be replaced/discarded no matter how great the tire looks.
BTW, I was starting to experience dw myself. Found the my RF tire down 8 lbs. Corrected it and DW went away. Your ride is only as good as the tires.
 
Ticks said:
10 year old tires??!! The average life expectation is like after 4 years should be replaced/discarded no matter how great the tire looks.
BTW, I was starting to experience dw myself. Found the my RF tire down 8 lbs. Corrected it and DW went away. Your ride is only as good as the tires.
Click to expand...

Average life is actually more like 6-7 years. Most tires shops don't want to mess with tires much over 7.

If a tire has no signs of dryrot, cracks or been run flat I don't worry to much about it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tr21triton
Ticks said:
10 year old tires??!! The average life expectation is like after 4 years should be replaced/discarded no matter how great the tire looks.
BTW, I was starting to experience dw myself. Found the my RF tire down 8 lbs. Corrected it and DW went away. Your ride is only as good as the tires.
Click to expand...

It's actually not at all uncommon to get 10 years out of a set of tires. I worked in a Costco tireshop for many years and while I won't say it happened every day we would see them probably once a week come in that old.
Our rule was 10 years and then we can't touch the tire unless we were putting a new set on. My tires are actually 11 years old(date code is 2011) and I will say that it pays to rotate your 5th as well as get rebalanced every single time you rotate, regardless.
Another detail about tire centers that will help everyone is to ask to have your wheel pin plated if they have pin plates and also to balance to at least .25oz dynamic/static overall. Costco started sending truck tires at .5 oz overall and it used to make me so mad. We used to ship at .18oz, until they opened up the standards a bit, probably to help with wait times.
You can get the most finicky tires to balance, some times it just takes someone who actually knows what they are doing.

So moral is, rotate your 5th, rebalance every time, and make a point to not have the new guy balance your 37s.
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: Jerry Bransford and John Cooper
Happy to report that it seems like tires were the issue. I think I may still upgrade the joints in the axle to johnny joints because at $75 a piece, might as well. After messing with caster a bit I might drop it back from 6 to 5.5 or 5 since I have a slight drive line vibe still. First time I have gone over 50mph in monthsšŸ˜‚.

So another question, I will be switching to 35s (sitting in the garage) once I swap my 9 inch in soon. What's the consensus on balancing beads? I have a buddy who runs them on his 39s and loves them, but I have never used them personally or dealt with them in the tire shop as they are not exactly corporate kosher.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ticks and John Cooper
Top Bottom
Back