LED headlights and snow

I would start with the rain x if it is safe for the lenses. Rain x works excellent for rain. It it stops the snow from sticking that should solve your problem but must be reapplied occasionally.

I did that on Monday, and have been praying for a new snow storm so I can test the theory. In reality, storms like this one only come up 1-3X per winter here. And I’m not usually driving at night when they do. Usually, we have about as many storms with pretty dry snow, which doesn’t build up the same way. It’s that once or twice a year. This is actually the first time in almost 3 years it has come up.
 
I did that on Monday, and have been praying for a new snow storm so I can test the theory. In reality, storms like this one only come up 1-3X per winter here. And I’m not usually driving at night when they do. Usually, we have about as many storms with pretty dry snow, which doesn’t build up the same way. It’s that once or twice a year. This is actually the first time in almost 3 years it has come up.

This last storm was big. I just came through flagstaff yesterday. I’m glad the weather and roads were clear.
 
This last storm was big. I just came through flagstaff yesterday. I’m glad the weather and roads were clear.

It was big up here, too. Lots of heavy wet snow that stuck to (almost) everything and brought down big tree limbs.
 
It was big up here, too. Lots of heavy wet snow that stuck to (almost) everything and brought down big tree limbs.

I was in the springs for the last coupe weeks, had a couple nights with about 3” of snow and it was cold for a couple days.
 
Colorado has all kinds of snow in all kinds of weather. I have never heard that it is known for one type or another. And I have been running my headlights in all kinds of snow for many years.

One thing I know about LEDs is that they produce a lot of heat, which is why we often see large heat sink fins on them. We also know that Chinese copies of things are often less than honest about what they actually do. And we know that Chinese headlights often don't put out as much light as they might claim, which means your WXYZ lights aren't putting out as much heat as the real thing does. That is the real problem that you are trying to solve with a bunch of nickel and dime fixes.

I’m sure you do get all kinds of weather there. Yes, Colorado is known for its dry snow, as is Utah. It’s the primary reason those are two world-class ski destinations.
If you really knew about LEDs, you would know they don’t produce anywhere near as much heat as other light-producing technologies. Primarily, because they are more efficient. I have worked with LEDs in about 2/3 of my career for industrial applications, where heat was a critical factor. As an example, in one application, we created AI (artificial intelligence) vision-guided robotics to automatically sew together components of artificial heart valves. Heat induction into the process was a problem, as was the wavelength of the light. As I recall, the wavelength had to be 435nm in the violet range in order for the part to be adequately fluorescent, and the total exothermic radiant heat had to be very low. I don’t recall the value, but it wasn’t easy to meet. What we found is that although the LED diode itself gets just as hot as halogen bulbs, it occupies a tiny fraction of the surface area. And therefore, the amount of total exothermic heat from a LED light with similar light output to a halogen, measured in terms of exothermic radiance, is far less. In laymen’s terms, the LED does not heat up surrounding materials and assemblies nearly as much as halogens of similar value. A greater exothermic radiant heat figure from a light source is an indication of LESS EFFICIENCY, not greater. When it comes to LED light technology, more heat radiating from the light assembly is an indicator of lower quality, not greater. Did you not consider this when you bought your US-made Trucklights for $435 compared to the apparently more-efficient WHDZ LED “copies” for around 100 bucks? Add to that the fact that your snow is typically considerably drier than what I experienced last week, and you have a very UNscientific point.
Before you label me a pinko commie sympathizer, I do prefer buying American when it makes sense to do so. But to buy an inferior product (at LEAST in terms of efficiency) for 4-5x the cost, does not seem to make much sense now, does it? 😁
Disclaimer: Not everybody you consider to be of lower intelligence is actually as you may perceive them. People you may seek to chastise for not making choices in the same way you do, are not necessarily making their choices without thinking them through. Considering that the conditions which existed last week as described only happen maybe a couple times a year, and that it’s even less frequent that I would drive in those conditions at night, does it really make sense to spend $435 to solve a problem that, in all likelihood, might exist once every few years? Especially when there may be much simpler solutions we haven’t found yet? Especially if the $435 doesn’t actually solve the problem. Are the Trucklite units of higher or lower quality than the WHDZ? I have no idea, and neither do you. Blind loyalty is just as great a fault as ignorance, so let’s can the condescending BS, shall we?
 
I’m sure you do get all kinds of weather there. Yes, Colorado is known for its dry snow, as is Utah. It’s the primary reason those are two world-class ski destinations.
If you really knew about LEDs, you would know they don’t produce anywhere near as much heat as other light-producing technologies. Primarily, because they are more efficient. I have worked with LEDs in about 2/3 of my career for industrial applications, where heat was a critical factor. As an example, in one application, we created AI (artificial intelligence) vision-guided robotics to automatically sew together components of artificial heart valves. Heat induction into the process was a problem, as was the wavelength of the light. As I recall, the wavelength had to be 435nm in the violet range in order for the part to be adequately fluorescent, and the total exothermic radiant heat had to be very low. I don’t recall the value, but it wasn’t easy to meet. What we found is that although the LED diode itself gets just as hot as halogen bulbs, it occupies a tiny fraction of the surface area. And therefore, the amount of total exothermic heat from a LED light with similar light output to a halogen, measured in terms of exothermic radiance, is far less. In laymen’s terms, the LED does not heat up surrounding materials and assemblies nearly as much as halogens of similar value. A greater exothermic radiant heat figure from a light source is an indication of LESS EFFICIENCY, not greater. When it comes to LED light technology, more heat radiating from the light assembly is an indicator of lower quality, not greater. Did you not consider this when you bought your US-made Trucklights for $435 compared to the apparently more-efficient WHDZ LED “copies” for around 100 bucks? Add to that the fact that your snow is typically considerably drier than what I experienced last week, and you have a very UNscientific point.
Before you label me a pinko commie sympathizer, I do prefer buying American when it makes sense to do so. But to buy an inferior product (at LEAST in terms of efficiency) for 4-5x the cost, does not seem to make much sense now, does it? 😁
Disclaimer: Not everybody you consider to be of lower intelligence is actually as you may perceive them. People you may seek to chastise for not making choices in the same way you do, are not necessarily making their choices without thinking them through. Considering that the conditions which existed last week as described only happen maybe a couple times a year, and that it’s even less frequent that I would drive in those conditions at night, does it really make sense to spend $435 to solve a problem that, in all likelihood, might exist once every few years? Especially when there may be much simpler solutions we haven’t found yet? Especially if the $435 doesn’t actually solve the problem. Are the Trucklite units of higher or lower quality than the WHDZ? I have no idea, and neither do you. Blind loyalty is just as great a fault as ignorance, so let’s can the condescending BS, shall we?

Lots of no's there. Rather than screw around with those headlights trying to make them not snow over (assuming that really matters and is really worth the effort) spend the money and time on good halogens or non-Chinese copies of good LEDs.

And FWIW, Colorado and Utah are known for skiing because of a combination of enough snow and the presence of mountains that are accessible. And I have plenty of complaints about TruckLites, but their inability to melt snow and ice in their unheated iteration isn't one of them.
 
I had a different experience, DID NOT LIKE! I have the Amazon Special ,"truckmall lights" I also have them in my driving lights... I was coming home from work in a pretty heavy snow, I had my brights on, I had to turn them off, back to low beam, I was on a back road, no highway lights. I thought I gotten transported into a Battlestar Galactica episode, it was like I was driving through a million stars... it was messing with my head. I love my bright lights on a regular day... just not on a dark snowy night!
I installed the Amazon specials and lived with them for about a month before ditching them. The pattern was.. Well, I'd like to say it was non-existent, but what really killed them for me (aside from the look, which I hated) was that regardless of how far down I aligned them they still shot straight up in front of the Jeep. That would be brutal in snow/rain.

You guys bagging on H4 halogens must not have experienced a well installed set of lights. I’m running E spec Cibie housings, aimed properly with Phillips extra bright bulbs. They are very bright and have an excellent cutoff.

Standard

View attachment 390051

High beams
View attachment 390050
I had the Koito/Toyo H4's. Loved the pattern and the sharp cutoff but hated the color. To each his own
 
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I installed the Amazon specials and lived with them for about a month before ditching them. The pattern was.. Well, I'd like to say it was non-existent, but what really killed them for me (aside from the look, which I hated) was that regardless of how far down I aligned them they still shot straight up in front of the Jeep. That would be brutal in snow/rain.


I had the Koito/Toyo H4's. Loved the pattern and the sharp cutoff but hated the color. To each his own

I hear the color thing a lot. I know the factory Toyota bulbs that come with that kit (I have the same in my motorhome) is a "standard" halogen filled 55/60 watt bulb and that can be pretty yellow. The bulbs I have in both the Kioto housings and the Cibie's in my Jeep have a Xenon gas filled bulb vs halogen. It burns MUCH whiter and the color is very nice, IMHO. Do you have a picture of your lights? I'd like to see what you're comparing.


BTW, this is the bulb I use.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NMEEOV2/?tag=wranglerorg-20
The specs I can find says it's color temp is 3600K (which is just toward the yellow end of "balanced") A lot of the LED lights I see are up around 5000K...and I find that to be a bit blue and harsh for my liking.
 
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I hear the color thing a lot. I know the factory Toyota bulbs that come with that kit (I have the same in my motorhome) is a "standard" halogen filled 55/60 watt bulb and that can be pretty yellow. The bulbs I have in both the Kioto housings and the Cibie's in my Jeep have a Xenon gas filled bulb vs halogen. It burns MUCH whiter and the color is very nice, IMHO. Do you have a picture of your lights? I'd like to see what you're comparing.


BTW, this is the bulb I use.

[URL][URL][URL][URL]https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NMEEOV2/?tag=wranglerorg-20[/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL]

The specs I can find says it's color temp is 3600K (which is just toward the yellow end of "balanced") A lot of the LED lights I see are up around 5000K...and I find that to be a bit blue and harsh for my liking.
I searched at length for a replacement H4 bulb. Hadn't looked at Xenon but early in my search dismissed the LED plugin alternatives in the H4 housing. The bulbs that came with the Koito kit are 3000k. I switched to the Hella H4 100/80, also a 3000k-ish (AFAIR). To my eye, 5700k is a hyper daylight white.. when you get to 6000k and cooler it's more blue and IMHO to be avoided.

While I wanted LED technology and a look that is consistent with our 20+ year old rigs, I wanted a daylight output. I opted for the Holley Retro Bright LEDs. After four headlight changes I am certain these are keepers.

Check here for details on the Retro Brights.. not the cheapest option, not the most expensive. Not Transformer looking. Choose the color you want. Exactly what I want though so I'm good
 
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I searched at length for a replacement H4 bulb. Hadn't looked at Xenon but early in my search dismissed the LED plugin alternatives in the H4 housing. The bulbs that came with the Koito kit are 3000k. I switched to the Hella H4 100/80, also a 3000k-ish (AFAIR). To my eye, 5700k is a hyper daylight white.. when you get to 6000k and cooler it's more blue and IMHO to be avoided.

While I wanted LED technology and a look that is consistent with our 20+ year old rigs, I wanted a daylight output. I opted for the Holley Retro Bright LEDs. After four headlight changes I am certain these are keepers.

Check here for details on the Retro Brights.. not the cheapest option, not the most expensive. Not Transformer looking. Choose the color you want. Exactly what I want though so I'm good

The retro bright lights look like a very good option. They weren’t available when I did my H4 conversion
 
I installed the Amazon specials and lived with them for about a month before ditching them. The pattern was.. Well, I'd like to say it was non-existent, but what really killed them for me (aside from the look, which I hated) was that regardless of how far down I aligned them they still shot straight up in front of the Jeep. That would be brutal in snow/rain.


I had the Koito/Toyo H4's. Loved the pattern and the sharp cutoff but hated the color. To each his own

I'm a fan of mine! I have them on my Street Glide as well... that's why I put them on my Jeep! I've had no issues on the bike or the Jeep, except the high beams in the snow, low beams were fine.

20200706_171109.jpg
 
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Considering that the conditions which existed last week as described only happen maybe a couple times a year, and that it’s even less frequent that I would drive in those conditions at night, does it really make sense to spend $435 to solve a problem that, in all likelihood, might exist once every few years?

It's worth $435 if you could get in an accident due to poor light driving in those conditions even if it's rare. Also, it this weren't a serious enough problem, you wouldn't be posting here. And if were a problem with real Trucklites, we would know by now.

What you want to spend and what you want to buy is entirely your prerogative. But with copies of products, you never really know what you are getting. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't. This time you didn't.

You seem to continually think (and say) that the forum members posting on your threads and replying to you are condescending. They aren't. Stop thinking that.
 
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The retro bright lights look like a very good option. They weren’t available when I did my H4 conversion

Same. I got my H4 conversion kit from Daniel Stern and my lights look like yours after I did the harness. I want to see those Holley lights in person, they look pretty good.
 
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I did that on Monday, and have been praying for a new snow storm so I can test the theory. In reality, storms like this one only come up 1-3X per winter here. And I’m not usually driving at night when they do. Usually, we have about as many storms with pretty dry snow, which doesn’t build up the same way. It’s that once or twice a year. This is actually the first time in almost 3 years it has come up.

Make sure to let us know how the rain-x works when/if you get the chance (y)
 
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It's worth $435 if you could get in an accident due to poor light driving in those conditions even if it's rare. Also, it this weren't a serious enough problem, you wouldn't be posting here. And if were a problem with real Trucklites, we would know by now.

What you want to spend and what you want to buy is entirely your prerogative. But with copies of products, you never really know what you are getting. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't. This time you didn't.

You seem to continually think (and say) that the forum members posting on your threads and replying to you are condescending. They aren't. Stop thinking that.

I agree that it's important. That's why I posted it. But there is more than one way to skin the cat. I'm exploring those, and some have offered great ideas here. Pays to hear what they have to say also. Not just the self-anointed "experts of everything Jeep".
To those with knowledge who frequent these forums to help others, I tip my hat. But there are some who merely drop into posts like mine to insult the choices other people make by diminishing otherwise perfectly good products as cheap, inferior, and that the buyer is somehow deficient in not choosing their own preferred brand. While I realize the know-it-alls exist in all forms of activity, it only serves to turn fresh new enthusiasts away from such forums like this when they are treated as some lesser life form for making the choices they made. The distinct insinuation is that their choice was ignorant in nature, and not thought through with potential options. I've seen it way too many times before here and in that "other" forum by the same people. It's not helping.Might make them feel superior to bully others for their choices, but doesn't help.

Being here to educate others with existing knowledge gained from experience is a good thing. Educate, don't denigrate and chastise others for their choices. As I stated before, there is a point at which spending 4-5X as much for a product, simply because most of its components aren't made in China, is not a choice I would make. Potentially, others feel even more strongly about it than that, and have plenty of money to throw around. Not everyone shares that view, and has to make choices on somewhat different criteria. I also recognize fully that goupthink can take over and anoint certain brands as untouchable and beyond reproach. That's also not necessarily wise as a selection criteria. I happen to know Ray Currie. Great products. Great guy. Have some of his products on my Jeeps. Don't genuflect at his feet and automatically shell out all my hard-earned cash for his product across the board, because the level of product they build is not necessarily critical for my application. I also used to know Sammy Chu, part owner of Viair. I do currently have his compressor mounted on my Jeep as my onboard air choice. Also a good guy. I don't necessarily like Sammy any more than I like Ray. I just happen to believe his product delivers solid quality for the money. I know the Thomas compressor lineup quite well, as I spent many years applying them in various industrial and medical applications. I don't use Thomas either. What most people don't understand is that these companies who offer an "American made" product actually source many components and materials worldwide. Including China. The whole thing doesn't have to be sourced here to say it's "an American made product". I'd guess many of the components in the Trucklite product are sourced in China, Malaysia, Taiwan, and elsewhere.

I'm not running a race team here, where the cost is no object. I've done that. Don't need to do it here. I just want a solid, reliable Jeep with reasonable quality and reliable results. The calculus of others may be different. That's fine, I have no issue whatsoever with that. But the moment someone with knowledge drops in and belittles my choice because it's not what they consider the only acceptable option, they lose their status with me as a reliable source. They are here for the wrong reasons. They want to be worshipped, not here to help out other people. My purpose for starting topics is partly to learn, and partly to help other people who may end up in the same spot a week from now, or a year from now. Not to dominate the conversation with my choice of the popular brands and simple conventional wisdom. If you read thru lots of Jeep threads (as well as other vehicles), there are plenty of people who have had the same issue with all brands of LED lights. Not just WHDZ or Trucklite. Speaker, KC, a dozen others have the same issue, and it's why they are all offering heated LED lights. If not now, then soon.

My 2 cents. Your mileage may vary. Listen to whoever you want. It's YOUR Jeep. Not mine.
 
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Yet we get a long condescending post on how much knowledge and experience he has on the subject at hand.

Not on the subject at hand. But I do have experience in a somewhat different application, and he assumed I was a dolt who could be talked down to. I asked the question for a reason, and it wasn't for my choice to be ridiculed as inferior. Nobody likes being treated as a know-nothing. I'm not the one posing as the authority on Jeep applications of LEDs. But the assumption was made that my choice of these lights was ignorant and I should have listened to the "expert". Who, it turns out, isn't really an expert at all. He just has his own experience, which is what I've got. And his is anecdotal, at best. He made a statement that was wrong, and I called him on it. But he did it while insinuating my choice was somehow inferior. If you like your choices being ridiculed, by all means listen to this sort of "expert".
 
Not on the subject at hand. But I do have experience in a somewhat different application, and he assumed I was a dolt who could be talked down to. I asked the question for a reason, and it wasn't for my choice to be ridiculed as inferior. Nobody likes being treated as a know-nothing. I'm not the one posing as the authority on Jeep applications of LEDs. But the assumption was made that my choice of these lights was ignorant and I should have listened to the "expert". Who, it turns out, isn't really an expert at all. He just has his own experience, which is what I've got. And his is anecdotal, at best. He made a statement that was wrong, and I called him on it. But he did it while insinuating my choice was somehow inferior. If you like your choices being ridiculed, by all means listen to this sort of "expert".

It must be our dry snow. 🤣
 
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Looks like my best option will be a set of halogen fog lights for those rare occasions, as replacements for my Rigid LED fogs. $450 for a set of Trucklites or equivalent might make some people feel superior to others, but it’s actually insane when there is an actual choice. Thank you to those who offered real alternative sane choices, most of which were quite viable and reasonable. And especially, thank you for making those suggestions in the true spirit of helpfulness. I really appreciate your help in crystallizing my thoughts. Cheers!