Yeah, 500hp/425ft.lbs. He said ton axles are next so he doesn’t blow up his Dana 30/35 set up.
Thoughts on suspension / lift on future EV rigs
- Thread starter rjaym
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Yeah, 500hp/425ft.lbs. He said ton axles are next so he doesn’t blow up his Dana 30/35 set up.
That is pretty badass. I'm unconvinced that it has the range he thinks it has on anything more difficult than fire roads. Will subscribe to his channel and watch all the vids.
And it looks to be on stock sized tires. Not my thing, but obviously doable. I skimmed the article, is it AWD or still selectable 4wd?
I didn't find any good info with a quick search, but looking at that Jeep you posted it looks to be the size of a trans and probably transfer case combined, so probably close to the dimensions of the one I posted. Definitely not a small object to be moving up and down on an axle.
I think in his video he implied all wheel drive. The drive unit is 300#, so that wouldn’t be good in the axle. He said the 4cyl, trans and T-case that came out were 660# (which seems low since a 4.0L is 550# by itself, but OK). The 90kwh battery and mounting hardware was over 1000#, less 200# or so if you factor in a full 19 gal tank/skid, he might be looking at around 450# weight gain. Not terrible but it will go up with one ton axles
I still like the idea of smaller (say 150hp) motors in each purpose built axle with electric lockers, of course. Then you can lose the driveshafts which in itself would be very nice. I’d also like to spread the modular battery packs around the engine bay, tunnel and tank area for space and weight distribution. Now that I say that, a frunk in a TJ would be cool
I think in his video he implied all wheel drive. The drive unit is 300#, so that wouldn’t be good in the axle. He said the 4cyl, trans and T-case that came out were 660# (which seems low since a 4.0L is 550# by itself, but OK). The 90kwh battery and mounting hardware was over 1000#, less 200# or so if you factor in a full 19 gal tank/skid, he might be looking at around 450# weight gain. Not terrible but it will go up with one ton axles
I still like the idea of smaller (say 150hp) motors in each purpose built axle with electric lockers, of course. Then you can lose the driveshafts which in itself would be very nice. I’d also like to spread the modular battery packs around the engine bay, tunnel and tank area for space and weight distribution. Now that I say that, a frunk in a TJ would be cool
The chevy bolt drive unit is smaller if I'm not mistaken.and was available in kit form. Other oem ev's smaller than a tesla would be worth looking at too. I'd be worried about how to get power to the axle without the cables or insulation breaking down from the constant movement though.
Yes and waterproofing would need to be overcome while managing motor heat. Fun to think about.
For anyone thinking EV conversions of existing cars/rigs/Jeep/Trucks etc will be "the way forward", I submit an EV converted '74 BMW 2002 which sold for $42,500 at auction (true market reaction), after what was likely a $100,000 conversion per the conversion company's website which gives a conversion price range of $75,000-150,000+.
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1974-bmw-2002-111/ It's a converted
For comparison, a lightly modified '75 BMW 2002 with 2.0 4-cylinder, which just sold for $48,250 https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1975-bmw-2002-95/
Off of those two comparable cars, it looks like EV conversions are a complete waste of time and money (big money), or at least that's what the buying market seems to be saying. Thoughts?
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1974-bmw-2002-111/ It's a converted
For comparison, a lightly modified '75 BMW 2002 with 2.0 4-cylinder, which just sold for $48,250 https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1975-bmw-2002-95/
Off of those two comparable cars, it looks like EV conversions are a complete waste of time and money (big money), or at least that's what the buying market seems to be saying. Thoughts?
Most engine/drivetrain swaps cost more than the change in value of the car.
I'll give you that, but generally an engine swap isn't a complete waste of time and money, especially total cost, which is likely $100,000 for EV conversion. The examples above pretty much isolated the EV conversion to having ZERO contributory value, possibly even a negative value (excluding actual conversion cost). In layman terms, the buying public said an EV swapped classic is nothing special, even with all the current headline hype, and the original builder/money man just pissed it all away.
If it was a 4-cylinder TJ swapped to a 4.0, or HEMI or LS, do you think the market value would increase at least some?
I think any high quality modified vehicle whether its a hot rod, Jeep, or EV conversion sells for pennies on the dollar "invested". Nothing new here.
I'll give you that, but generally an engine swap isn't a complete waste of time and money, especially total cost, which is likely $100,000 for EV conversion. The examples above pretty much isolated the EV conversion to having ZERO contributory value, possibly even a negative value (excluding actual conversion cost). In layman terms, the buying public said an EV swapped classic is nothing special, even with all the current headline hype, and the original builder/money man just pissed it all away.
If it was a 4-cylinder TJ swapped to a 4.0, or HEMI or LS, do you think the market value would increase at least some?
Whether a hemi or an ev,either can be done for 100k or 10-20k. Regardless,nobody swaps their rig with profit as the motive. Its a losing proposition assuming its done right.
I guess my question for you is what do any of your posts have to do with ev suspension design?
Yes gas is cheaper,you win.do you have anything to contribute?
I agree with the general statement, but that is brushing off the fact that this EV conversion is NO (potentially negative) pennies on the dollar. It's just demonstrating the niche market, or lack there of, for EV stuff that I've pointed out.
Whether a hemi or an ev,either can be done for 100k or 10-20k. Regardless,nobody swaps their rig with profit as the motive. Its a losing proposition assuming its done right.
I guess my question for you is what do any of your posts have to do with ev suspension design?
Yes gas is cheaper,you win.do you have anything to contribute?
No market for it. I assumed you could put that together.... Was I wrong?
Fish Family JKU
Member
Talk about niche market. Think I see far fewer LS swapped TJs around here than EVs
Moving a vehicle to EV is a labor of love. I would not expect a return, its a loss every time. Ever watch Rich Rebuilds? His V8 swapped TESLA is a great example. Tons of hours, custom hardware and custom drive train. Never gonna get back what he put into it but still slick as hell, because it niche (or ridiculous depending who you ask).
I did run into a couple Rivians in the snow back in December. Looked nice but admittedly they didn't do well in deep stuff (12"+), too damn heavy on the pizza cutters. They need that 2-3" lift to stuff some 35x12.5 MTs... Someone get on it!
exactly my point. You want to argue the merits of ev in general.not provide any ideas of how to lift one,convert to ev etc.No market for it. I assumed you could put that together.... Was I wrong?
Crapping in this thread trying to shut down discussion isn't useful.why do we care about bmw's on bring a trailer? It isn't necessary to spend 100k on a conversion,even when buying one of the ev kits from an oem like gm.
Talk about niche market. Think I see far fewer LS swapped TJs around here than EVs
So the OPs original question is/was "Now that SEMA is over I am curious if any vendors are offering ideas on how motor on axle design EVs will be lifted / increase travel. Will portal type lifts become the norm? It seems now is the time the r/d will get some financial backing, I’m curious about the interest from the aftermarket on how they will support these new EV designs."
The original topic is about the market for EV swaps and products. LS engines were never brought to market for engine swap purposes. That's just a byproduct of there being so many of them out there, not quite a niche market. I guess LS motor mounts for a TJ are a niche market...
Were they on road or trying to go off into the powder? The Rivian looks like an F150 to me, so I figured they would be about as capable.
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The OPs original post is quoted above ^. He was asking about the market for EV swaps and products. If you design a product that the market doesn't want, then what the hell good is it? How long will that last? Sure there are custom one-offs, but my argument is and has been there is no market for these products, and I don't see there being any significant change in that for a long time. So I've been addressing the original topic.
It's an example of the real world market, that's why. (personally, I couldn't give a shit less about that or any other BMW, it's just a good demonstration of value of an EV conversion) How many people are going to cough up $100,000 (seems to be the quoted average for conversion) just to have $0 ROI? Looks like a DOA market to me.
Look around, everywhere you see EV conversion quotes the range is $50,000-$150,000+. I just estimated the median of the range to be an average cost. Even the guys doing it at home are saying $20K+ using salvage parts.
<shrug> Eventually (when battery tech improves) I'll do an EV conversion on an LJ for the challenge and because 100% torque at the first RPM. Resale value will be of absolutely no concern.
Fish Family JKU
Member
Its was trash. Days of warm weather and fresh dusting made it suck in general. It was ice once you broke through the snow crust. We floated, being 2000lbs lighter and a large contact area. EV or not, that combination didn't have a chance.
Come on. You know you wanna drop this thing in a TJ or Sami...
$4500 for 300ft/lbs at 200lbs of weight. Now the battery, a different beast. But very common these days for DIYers to just pull batteries from totaled vehicles. Nissan LEAF, Chevy Bolt, TESLA.
Not joking too much but I have been looking at getting a Sami project and I would strongly consider an EV since it would be a dedicated wheeler. Long travel Independent suspension with a low CG and plenty of instant torque and 50 miles of range tops.