Strange intermittent starting issues

N

NICHOLAS MATHER

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Im very sorry to bother you guys, i try my absolute best to comb these forums and read the how to stuff to solve my problems without asking. But im kinda stumped.

As always, im grateful for ANY help or advice you guys can offer.

Anyways, my 2004 5spd rubicon has been having some weird intermittent starting issues.

It has only began this winter, and usually after sitting outside in the freezing northern cold all day. Ill hop in, press my clutch all the way down and turn my key and NOTHING.

All the lights, everything works as it should. But i dont get a click or a crank, nothing. The lights DO NOT dim.

I will then slump down in my seat and curse my jeep and my luck, ill take the key in and out try it a few more times and then itll start just fine. It does this MAYBE once a week, most times after sitting outside in the cold at work.

Aside from a winch i put on years and year ago, its stock. I checked all my connections and they look great! I use that battery grease stuff on all my terminals, so theres no corrosion and no loose wires.

My grounds look great. I generally take good care of my jeep and get it rust proofed every year by rust check.

My battery, starter, and alternator are a year to a year and a half old. I buy all new parts, not remanufactured. The starter is duralast gold.

I read chris’s article on testing these issues and tried my best to complete them accurately. My battery has 12 volts. While cranking, it briefly dips down to 10, and then shoots back up to 12.

Everything with my starter checks out the same. I was not able to complete the test with the starter ignition wire as my test probes were to thick and i didnt have a wire on me. But i did the other tests and they all seemed fine.

Regardless, EACH time during the tests the jeep started up fine each time.

My cables and wires look great. All my lights and gauges are normal and functioning. Aside from this issue, my jeep works fine.

My thoughts now lead me to an ignition switch, the ignition actuator pin, or the solenoid is still randomly going bad.

Before writing this, i replaced the starter relay and fuse with new ones.

What do you guys think?

Now that ive done more reading, im going to test the tapping on starter trick, and the bypassing the clutch safety switch with 4low to see if that does it…..i just cant replicate it when im home, it only seems to happen in the working parking lot after 12 hours of sitting.

My ignition feels the same? I havent noticed any extra looseness or anything.

It did it last night, and the weather was about 20 degrees and wet.

Can you guys think of any more tricks? Advice?

Whats the most likely cause based on your guys experience?

Times have gotten a bit tougher, so im trying to use a smarter solution than my fall back of just throwing parts at it.

Again, than you guys for your help!
 
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I'd look at both the switch, and the actuator. The switch contactor can be opened up (carefully), and cleaned with some degreaser, emory, and new grease. The actuator (while you are working on switch) you can look to verify that the pin is not broken.

Does the key self return from the start position to run each time, or are you manually turning it?

Mine was the switch with some corrosion in it from the Jeep's life in high humid areas, and driving naked in those conditions a lot of the time.
 
I had a similar issue and it was the clutch interlock switch. You can also put the fuse in or take out the fuse, cant remember, that over rides the clutch interlock switch. Its in the fuse box over the hood. Jeep did it for certain trail situations so you would not need to press the clutch to start the jeep.
 
I'd look at both the switch, and the actuator. The switch contactor can be opened up (carefully), and cleaned with some degreaser, emory, and new grease. The actuator (while you are working on switch) you can look to verify that the pin is not broken.

Does the key self return from the start position to run each time, or are you manually turning it?

Mine was the switch with some corrosion in it from the Jeep's life in high humid areas, and driving naked in those conditions a lot of the time.

Thanks for your reply! The key does return to position.

Did you also have a problem like this?

Do you think its possible to have issues like these with a bad ignition switch or pin actuator? I havent been able to find much info on whether or not these parts can kinda break and still work…or if once they go, theyre done.

My jeep hasn't lived the life yours has…but i wouldnt be surprised if some corrosion wasnt causing some type of intermittent connection issue.

I will get a chance to crack her open during my day off tomorrow.
 
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I had a similar issue and it was the clutch interlock switch. You can also put the fuse in or take out the fuse, cant remember, that over rides the clutch interlock switch. Its in the fuse box over the hood. Jeep did it for certain trail situations so you would not need to press the clutch to start the jeep.

Youre right! This is one test im excited to try when it does it again. I have the fuse ready (and i also read that the rubicon models automatically bypass it in 4 low)

I wish id have known about this test last night.

Can you describe what exactly your issue was like?

AND thank you for your reply, i greatly appreciate it!
 
I agree with Artsifrtsi. I had weird things happening when I turned my key, and there seemed to be no repeatability to what was happening. I replaced the actuator and the switch and that solved it, but I believe it was just the switch that was bad.
 
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I agree with Artsifrtsi. I had weird things happening when I turned my key, and there seemed to be no repeatability to what was happening. I replaced the actuator and the switch and that solved it, but I believe it was just the switch that was bad.

Thank you sab, im contemplating just ordering them off amazon and just replacing them just in case. Theyre cheaper.

I have a new starter in a box i bought, but id really like to take that back if i dont need it.
 
I believe the OEM manufacturer of the ignition switch was Borg-Warner, so look for that brand if you can.

Edited to add: BWD is the "new" Borg-Warner
 
Thank you sab, im contemplating just ordering them off amazon and just replacing them just in case. Theyre cheaper.

I have a new starter in a box i bought, but id really like to take that back if i dont need it.

Another thing to test is next time it does it try shorting the starter or use an external starter remote, and see if the starter still works, I just spent a couple weeks diagnosing mine, for me it was a bad starter and then the new starters ground terminal wasn’t screwed down all the way from the factor causing a bad ground. Hope that helps!
 
Did you also have a problem like this?

Do you think its possible to have issues like these with a bad ignition switch or pin actuator? I havent been able to find much info on whether or not these parts can kinda break and still work…or if once they go, theyre done.

My jeep hasn't lived the life yours has…but i wouldnt be surprised if some corrosion wasnt causing some type of intermittent connection issue.

I will get a chance to crack her open during my day off tomorrow.

Yes, mine was intermittent. The key always returned, so the actuator was good (visual inspection verified that).

I had a bit of corrosion in the actual switch... pulled it off (you'll need security torx, or a chisel to knock out the center pins). Carefully open the switch housing, there is a spring loaded detent ball, cleaned out the old grease, polished the contacts with 600grit paper, added new grease, and reassembled. Has been working great since.
 
Also if anything else, when I replaced my ignition switch, I was satisfied just with the fact that the switch felt nice to turn, it was very tactical, mine had become mushy and I had no clue how much of a difference in just feel it made. (I know I’m weird about those kind of things 😂😂)
 
Another thing to test is next time it does it try shorting the starter or use an external starter remote, and see if the starter still works, I just spent a couple weeks diagnosing mine, for me it was a bad starter and then the new starters ground terminal wasn’t screwed down all the way from the factor causing a bad ground. Hope that helps!

It does help blake I appreciate it.

Could you please tell me where the starters ground terminal is at?

Were you having a similar issue as me?
 
Also if anything else, when I replaced my ignition switch, I was satisfied just with the fact that the switch felt nice to turn, it was very tactical, mine had become mushy and I had no clue how much of a difference in just feel it made. (I know I’m weird about those kind of things 😂😂)

No thats fair, i dont think its weird at all! My jeep is 20 years old now, to me it feels normal….but unless i have a new one to compare it to, i can never be certain what normal is when its this old lol. Ive only had it for the past 6 or 7 years.

I have ordered a new switch, and the proper security torx bits.
 
I really appreciate all you guys time helping me.

Regardless of the outcome im going to see the thread to the end, hopefully it can help another person in the future
 
It does help blake I appreciate it.

Could you please tell me where the starters ground terminal is at?

Were you having a similar issue as me?

Yup had the exact issues, definitely was super annoying to say the least, I have a 2.5 so it could be different but for me there was a plug that goes into the starter with a ground wire connected, that connector was loose causing a poor ground that would intermittently work, I’ll try to grab a photo of it in a bit.
 
Yup had the exact issues, definitely was super annoying to say the least, I have a 2.5 so it could be different but for me there was a plug that goes into the starter with a ground wire connected, that connector was loose causing a poor ground that would intermittently work, I’ll try to grab a photo of it in a bit.

Wow thank you! Id appreciate that! Im going over starter anatomy to try and fond the same thing on mine to make sure.
 
So blake got me thinking about the starter.

Idk if this helps, but when i replaced my starter a year or two ago, i covered it in a nice heat shield velcro wrap.

When i went to inspect the starter today, i found the wrap still on and in place. While undoing the velcro, some of the silver outside of the wrap touched the starter wires and sparked.

I was surprised by this as i didnt realize the outer covering had metal in it. I assumed it was some sort of fire retardant silver covering.

I wonder if this wrap could be causing some sort of shorting issue? I put it on the hopefully extend the life of my starter. Im going to post a picture of the exact one i have.

C1B46B39-BEC6-4A5F-BB2E-4A3460CD744B.png
 
Just for a final update for anyone seeing this in the future, after i replaced the starter relay…i havent had the issue since. Ive gone weeks and nothing.
 
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