Steering wheel sits slightly off-center on highway

Your reading comprehension must be going to shit Jerry...

Where did you see me say that camber was adjustable and caster isn't? I said, "Excessive Caster differences can also cause a pull but again something would have to be bent on a TJ to cause that."
You said...

"Camber, excessive negative on one side will cause a "pull" to the opposite side. Too much positve will pull to the side that is out of spec. If your cross camber is equal there will not be a pull. If negative on one side and positive on the other it will pull to the positive side. If you do have close to equal negative on one side and positive on the other I would question the alignment tech to see if they made certain both tires are at equal air pressure and that the machine has been calibrated recently. Any difference in tire height to the center of the hub, left to right will throw all measurements off...

Excessive Caster differences can also cause a pull but again something would have to be bent on a TJ to cause that." (end of quote)

My reading comprehension is fine. Nothing has to be "bent" for a bad caster angle. A bad camber angle is typically caused by something that is bent.
 
Those changes are minuscule from initial to final. The vehicle could be sitting differently on the alignment rack from checking the caster.
I

I know it's been a while and systems have changed but isn't the caster sweep done before the initial readings are saved?
You said...

"Camber, excessive negative on one side will cause a "pull" to the opposite side. Too much positve will pull to the side that is out of spec. If your cross camber is equal there will not be a pull. If negative on one side and positive on the other it will pull to the positive side. If you do have close to equal negative on one side and positive on the other I would question the alignment tech to see if they made certain both tires are at equal air pressure and that the machine has been calibrated recently. Any difference in tire height to the center of the hub, left to right will throw all measurements off...

Excessive Caster differences can also cause a pull but again something would have to be bent on a TJ to cause that."

My reading comprehension is fine. Nothing has to be "bent" for a bad caster angle. A bad camber angle is typically caused by something that is bent.

The key word is "differences" as in, one side having dramatically different caster readings than the other...
 
I was thinking adding a .5 camber shim to the front left axle to bring it back into spec.what do you think? I know it say thrust angle is good but the axle is clearly not straight because my control arms are different lengths. I know Rear camber is not adjustable but it’s barely out of spec and .4 difference from the other side
View attachment 428216

You mentioned you had a fox gas charged steering stabilizer. The gas charged unit will cause a pull to the left but it will be different than a suspension pull. Disconnect he stabilizer and test drive it down to the store to return that stabilizer. The pull should go away.
For your camber problem I would suggest an offset upper ball joint.
You suggest the thrust angle is off due to one arm having more thread exposed than the other. Have you checked the arms and brackets to verify everything is straight? If you do not trust the thrust angle measurement you may as well crumple that alignment sheet up and throw it in the trash.
Take it somewhere you trust.
 
I know it's been a while and systems have changed but isn't the caster sweep done before the initial readings are saved?


The key word is "differences" as in, one side having dramatically different caster readings than the other...

Yes you do a caster sweep before for the initial, and at the end for the after reading. When you do the sweep the vehicle can shift on the turntables and cause different readings.also a Change in ride height can cause a variance.
A vehicle will pull to the side with less caster. We would set up with 1/2 degree less on the left side to compensate for the crown of the road.
Camber can also cause a pull but it would have to be very neg on one side and pos on the other.
 
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Yes you do a caster sweep before for the initial, and at the end for the after reading. When you do the sweep the vehicle can shift on the turntables and cause different readings.also a Change in ride height can cause a variance.
A vehicle will pull to the side with less caster. We would set up with 1/2 degree less on the left side to compensate for the crown of the road.
Camber can also cause a pull but it would have to be very neg on one side and pos on the other.

Ok so it hasn't changed since my days of being an alignment rack jockey... and yeah I had to explain the cross caster thing to a LOT of customers in the Puget Sound area thanks to the multitude of different road surface crown changes. The difference between "drift" and "pull".
 
Ok so it hasn't changed since my days of being an alignment rack jockey... and yeah I had to explain the cross caster thing to a LOT of customers in the Puget Sound area thanks to the multitude of different road surface crown changes. The difference between "drift" and "pull".

It’s been almost 20 since I have worked at a dealership. I did not care too much for the early electronic racks. The heads had to be constantly calibrated. Had on vehicle the customer kept saying it pulled. Finally they had me go for a ride, the idle was stuck high causing the car to pull!🤣
 
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It’s been almost 20 since I have worked at a dealership. I did not care too much for the early electronic racks. The heads had to be constantly calibrated. Had on vehicle the customer kept saying it pulled. Finally they had me go for a ride, the idle was stuck high causing the car to pull!🤣
The last time I had the pleasure was in 2015. having to calibrate all 4 sensor heads independently. I like the idea of these newer heads where you only have to roll the vehicle back and forth a few inches and done..
Radial tire pull was my favorite, there was enough road crown where I was able to test drive, that it would mask just about any pull to the left. The customer would get out on the highway and be back the next day saying it pulled left... I got to the point the first thing I did was swap tires on the front and tell them to take it out and try it. I'd say about 30% of the time they would come back and say it pulled to the right after the swap so we'd replace the tire. The rest never came back until their next rotation schedule, happy as could be.
 
https://www.autozone.com/suspension...ucts-alignment-kit-26012/601958_0_0?rrec=true

Here is the camber shim I was talking about. This would bring it back into spec and it only takes half an hour to put in according to the instructions. I can always remove it if it cause a problem. As for the alignment rack, I was with him when he did it and the numbers would go all over the place without him touching anything. I don’t trust that alignment rack or the shop that did the 8 arm alignment. If factory control arms are all equal to each other length, then my adjustable control arms should be equal as well. My rear axle should be square to the front axle. It clearly is not as the control arms are different lengths. Based off the camber readings, it’s safe to say my axles are slightly bent but the rear camber is only slightly out of spec so I should be more worried about the front as it’s .8 degrees different from each side.
 
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https://www.autozone.com/suspension...ucts-alignment-kit-26012/601958_0_0?rrec=true

Here is the camber shim I was talking about. This would bring it back into spec and it only takes half an hour to put in according to the instructions. I can always remove it if it cause a problem. As for the alignment rack, I was with him when he did it and the numbers would go all over the place without him touching anything. I don’t trust that alignment rack or the shop that did the 8 arm alignment. If factory control arms are all equal to each other length, then my adjustable control arms should be equal as well. My rear axle should be square to the front axle. It clearly is not as the control arms are different lengths. Based off the camber readings, it’s safe to say my axles are slightly bent but the rear camber is only slightly out of spec so I should be more worried about the front as it’s .8 degrees different from each side.

Seems like you've come up with your own diagnosis and course of action. Let us know how it works out. Good luck.
 
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https://www.autozone.com/suspension...ucts-alignment-kit-26012/601958_0_0?rrec=true

Here is the camber shim I was talking about. This would bring it back into spec and it only takes half an hour to put in according to the instructions. I can always remove it if it cause a problem. As for the alignment rack, I was with him when he did it and the numbers would go all over the place without him touching anything. I don’t trust that alignment rack or the shop that did the 8 arm alignment. If factory control arms are all equal to each other length, then my adjustable control arms should be equal as well. My rear axle should be square to the front axle. It clearly is not as the control arms are different lengths. Based off the camber readings, it’s safe to say my axles are slightly bent but the rear camber is only slightly out of spec so I should be more worried about the front as it’s .8 degrees different from each side.

I've seen those types of shims used on the rear hubs of front wheel drive cars, and I guess they can work but it's just a band-aid. I guess it would be ok to try... The whole half hour to install the part is subject to how stuck the hub is into the knuckle...

As for squaring up your axles to each other, it's not going to change anything as far as the "pull" you are describing.

Based off of your description of what is happening something in the suspension is loose.
 
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I've seen those types of shims used on the rear hubs of front wheel drive cars, and I guess they can work but it's just a band-aid. I guess it would be ok to try... The whole half hour to install the part is subject to how stuck the hub is into the knuckle...

As for squaring up your axles to each other, it's not going to change anything as far as the "pull" you are describing.

Based off of your description of what is happening something in the suspension is loose.

I agree with you that it’s a band aid. I don’t think it’s worth spending 1000s of dollars for 2 new axles though. It’s worth a try I guess. What are the symptoms of a bad thrust angle? I already replaced everything underneath the car and have verified nothing else is loose.
 
I was thinking adding a .5 camber shim to the front left axle to bring it back into spec.what do you think? I know it say thrust angle is good but the axle is clearly not straight because my control arms are different lengths. I know Rear camber is not adjustable but it’s barely out of spec and .4 difference from the other side
View attachment 428216

I'll put my .02 cents in on this.
First off, the difference in caster IS NOT going to cause a pull. You will never get the caster equal left to right on a solid axle. If you try to force it with adjustable arms, you're going to cause it to bind.
If you are really that dead set on having them perfectly equal, put a .25 degree offset upper ball joint on the right side. BUT....This will be a total waste of time and money.
As for the Camber being out, it DOES NOT mean that something is bent. There is actually a TSB for this. The inner C's may not have been correctly set up from the factory. The TSB's solution for this is offset ball joints. A .75 degree offset ball joint on the left upper will bring it into spec.
TJ's are sensitive to toe. You want it at .18 to .20 on both sides.
As for rear toe, there isn't an adjustment. Unless of course you have adjustable rear arms. Then you could lengthen the left rear to square up the axle.
Then adjust your rear track bar to make sure it the axle is centered.
Get rid of the gas pressurized steering stabilizer and put a $30.00 Monroe unit on it.

I'm also assuming that both axles are correctly centered under the vehicle. 2.5" of lift isn't a lot, but with a stock track bars they may not be centered.

You also stated that this is only noticeable on the highway. Are you sure you're not fighting the crown of the road. If I drive the center lane on rt80 in my fucktard state, I fight the steering wheel. It's because all the semi-trucks frequent the center lane.
 
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I'll put my .02 cents in on this.
First off, the difference in caster IS NOT going to cause a pull. You will never get the caster equal left to right on a solid axle. If you try to force it with adjustable arms, you're going to cause it to bind.
If you are really that dead set on having them perfectly equal, put a .25 degree offset upper ball joint on the right side. BUT....This will be a total waste of time and money.
As for the Camber being out, it DOES NOT mean that something is bent. There is actually a TSB for this. The inner C's may not have been correctly set up from the factory. The TSB's solution for this is offset ball joints. A .75 degree offset ball joint on the left upper will bring it into spec.
TJ's are sensitive to toe. You want it at .18 to .20 on both sides.
As for rear toe, there isn't an adjustment. Unless of course you have adjustable rear arms. Then you could lengthen the left rear to square up the axle.
Then adjust your rear track bar to make sure it the axle is centered.
Get rid of the gas pressurized steering stabilizer and put a $30.00 Monroe unit on it.

I'm also assuming that both axles are correctly centered under the vehicle. 2.5" of lift isn't a lot, but with a stock track bars they may not be centered.

You also stated that this is only noticeable on the highway. Are you sure you're not fighting the crown of the road. If I drive the center lane on rt80 in my fucktard state, I fight the steering wheel. It's because all the semi-trucks frequent the center lane.

Can you find me the tsb for the axle? Although this is a good possibility, I think it’s more likely that either me or one of the previous owners hit something on the left side because both left cambers are off. If that’s the case, Should I have the camber shim installed on the front? This would bring my camber back into spec. As for the front control arms, my front right lower is actually half a turn short. I’m not just going off of what the alignment sheet said. And for the rear control arms, they are far too different from each other to be set correctly imo so I will have the shop set them equal and go from there. None of the brackets or the frame looked bent either. Axles should be centered because I have adjustable track bars but will verify that when I get the alignment done. For the steering stabilizer I will attempt to return the fox stabilizer before a get a different one. Literally every suspension component has been replaced and prior to the lift kit being replaced, I didn’t have a pulling left issue but I did have a slight pulling right issue but not nearly as bad as it is now.
 
Can you find me the tsb for the axle? Although this is a good possibility, I think it’s more likely that either me or one of the previous owners hit something on the left side because both left cambers are off. If that’s the case, Should I have the camber shim installed on the front? This would bring my camber back into spec. As for the front control arms, my front right lower is actually half a turn short. I’m not just going off of what the alignment sheet said. And for the rear control arms, they are far too different from each other to be set correctly imo so I will have the shop set them equal and go from there. None of the brackets or the frame looked bent either. Axles should be centered because I have adjustable track bars but will verify that when I get the alignment done. For the steering stabilizer I will attempt to return the fox stabilizer before a get a different one. Literally every suspension component has been replaced and prior to the lift kit being replaced, I didn’t have a pulling left issue but I did have a slight pulling right issue but not nearly as bad as it is now.

I’m going to have toe set to 1/16 inwards because that’s what the install instructions on the currectlync kit said to do
 
I agree with you that it’s a band aid. I don’t think it’s worth spending 1000s of dollars for 2 new axles though. It’s worth a try I guess. What are the symptoms of a bad thrust angle? I already replaced everything underneath the car and have verified nothing else is loose.
A Thrust angle alignmemt only adjusts the toe to specifications, and adjusts the steering wheel to be centered while you're driving down the road. It absolutely wil NOT fix the "pulling" to the left you are experiencing. Again, looking at your alignment print out there is no explination for your Jeep to be pulling to the left accept maybe the negative camber on the rear??... If anything with the higher negative camber on the left front it would tend to make it go to the right.


This is an exageration but this is how a thrust angle alignment works...
If you're rear axle is not perpendicular to the frame it would cause the vehicle to track at an angle, "Trust angle".
with your adjustable control arms wou can correct this if the axle is not already 90° to the frame. Then the front can be aligned to the thrust angle. SInce your toe in is already in spec all that would need to be done would be adjusting the drag link to center the steering wheel.


Thick black lines are the road, pink is the frame, yellow is how the front tires would have to be adjusted to match the thrust angle.
1685325476748.png
 
I’m going to have toe set to 1/16 inwards because that’s what the install instructions on the currectlync kit said to do

This issue happens both at low and high speeds but more noticeable at high speeds and I’m sure road crown on the highway has a little something to do with it too
A Thrust angle alignmemt only adjusts the toe to specifications, and adjusts the steering wheel to be centered while you're driving down the road. It absolutely wil NOT fix the "pulling" to the left you are experiencing. Again, looking at your alignment print out there is no explination for your Jeep to be pulling to the left accept maybe the negative camber on the rear??... If anything with the higher negative camber on the left front it would tend to make it go to the right.


This is an exageration but this is how a thrust angle alignment works...
If you're rear axle is not perpendicular to the frame it would cause the vehicle to track at an angle, "Trust angle".
with your adjustable control arms wou can correct this if the axle is not already 90° to the frame. Then the front can be aligned to the thrust angle. SInce your toe in is already in spec all that would need to be done would be adjusting the drag link to center the steering wheel.


Thick black lines are the road, pink is the frame, yellow is how the front tires would have to be adjusted to match the thrust angle.
A Thrust angle alignmemt only adjusts the toe to specifications, and adjusts the steering wheel to be centered while you're driving down the road. It absolutely wil NOT fix the "pulling" to the left you are experiencing. Again, looking at your alignment print out there is no explination for your Jeep to be pulling to the left accept maybe the negative camber on the rear??... If anything with the higher negative camber on the left front it would tend to make it go to the right.


This is an exageration but this is how a thrust angle alignment works...
If you're rear axle is not perpendicular to the frame it would cause the vehicle to track at an angle, "Trust angle".
with your adjustable control arms wou can correct this if the axle is not already 90° to the frame. Then the front can be aligned to the thrust angle. SInce your toe in is already in spec all that would need to be done would be adjusting the drag link to center the steering wheel.


Thick black lines are the road, pink is the frame, yellow is how the front tires would have to be adjusted to match the thrust angle.
View attachment 428293

What about the camber shim? It’s only 20 bucks and takes 30 mins to install according to instructions. Can always remove it if it causes more problems
 
Can you find me the tsb for the axle? Although this is a good possibility, I think it’s more likely that either me or one of the previous owners hit something on the left side because both left cambers are off. If that’s the case, Should I have the camber shim installed on the front? This would bring my camber back into spec. As for the front control arms, my front right lower is actually half a turn short. I’m not just going off of what the alignment sheet said. And for the rear control arms, they are far too different from each other to be set correctly imo so I will have the shop set them equal and go from there. None of the brackets or the frame looked bent either. Axles should be centered because I have adjustable track bars but will verify that when I get the alignment done. For the steering stabilizer I will attempt to return the fox stabilizer before a get a different one. Literally every suspension component has been replaced and prior to the lift kit being replaced, I didn’t have a pulling left issue but I did have a slight pulling right issue but not nearly as bad as it is now.

Jeep TSB 02-001-02.​

 
This issue happens both at low and high speeds but more noticeable at high speeds and I’m sure road crown on the highway has a little something to do with it too
What about the camber shim? It’s only 20 bucks and takes 30 mins to install according to instructions. Can always remove it if it causes more problems


It's not going to hurt anything to put it in, but I don't believe it's going to fix what you are experiencing, based off of your alignment data...