psrivats' 2005 TJ Rubicon mild build

mrblaine · Jan 20, 2019

psrivats said:
I have enough to write a sad novel :risas3: Likely going back to 4.10s. I'll post a lengthy update soon ..

MOAB .. I need to drive and learn on much milder local stuff first. But I would love to ride shotgun. I'm not even sure I'm a capable spotter :risas3:

Curious. What would be the result of taking a pair of gas charged struts and mounting them at an angle on each side of the rear of the T-case? The gas spring rate can be changed so we could alter the damping almost infinitely. Take them to anchor points that the frame or the belly skid and see if there is any effect on the harmonic.

psrivats · Jan 20, 2019

mrblaine said:
There really aren't any. You are just a bit sensitive due to all the issues you have had. That said, I looked for your thread to give another data point. Buddy I helped with his 98 which we built into a 2000 with a 98 title had to have a 241. He has been fighting a harmonic that won't go away. He has been poking around the edges for months and last night I finally nailed him down as to what his vibes consist of. After some pointed questions, I finally got out of him that it is indeed the harmonic we see from time to time. 32RH, 35's, 4.88's, 241, mid arm and they did not start until we raised the belly skid. They were not present with the factory skid.

Very interesting, Blaine. First time I've heard about a TJ with 32RH having the vibe. I'll have to run the numbers to see what driveshaft rpms that combo is getting at hwy speeds. Thanks for sharing that information.

You are absolutely right about me being a bit sensitive. Dave says my Jeep is the worst example of this harmonic vibe that he's worked in all the time he's spent on TJs and he's been checking the Jeep to bottom as he finds time.

mrblaine said:
Curious. What would be the result of taking a pair of gas charged struts and mounting them at an angle on each side of the rear of the T-case? The gas spring rate can be changed so we could alter the damping almost infinitely. Take them to anchor points that the frame or the belly skid and see if there is any effect on the harmonic.

That's a really interesting idea. This would be a very clever way to have a variable tuned damper on the tcase. I'llalk to Dave about this if it's ok with you.

mrblaine · Jan 21, 2019

psrivats said:
Very interesting, Blaine. First time I've heard about a TJ with 32RH having the vibe. I'll have to run the numbers to see what driveshaft rpms that combo is getting at hwy speeds. Thanks for sharing that information.

You are absolutely right about me being a bit sensitive. Dave says my Jeep is the worst example of this harmonic vibe that he's worked in all the time he's spent on TJs and he's been checking the Jeep to bottom as he finds time.

I understand and I've only ever had one I couldn't fix so I know the frustration.

That's a really interesting idea. This would be a very clever way to have a variable tuned damper on the tcase. I'llalk to Dave about this if it's ok with you.

His RsPM are pretty high. Higher than average.

If I minded, I wouldn't have posted it publicly. It seems to me that you can do lots of things to see if anything makes a change in the harmonic. Brace to the skid, brace to the frame, angle them with a wide base, angle to a common point, arrange to both push up, both push down, or straight horizontal so one is pushing the case toward one side and the other is pushing opposite.

I dislike vibes at idle so I'm always fighting them on custom builds. I just did one with an Atlas II install, custom crossmember for it and I got it vibe free at idle by using a stock TJ trans mount.

psrivats · Jan 21, 2019

mrblaine said:
If I minded, I wouldn't have posted it publicly. It seems to me that you can do lots of things to see if anything makes a change in the harmonic. Brace to the skid, brace to the frame, angle them with a wide base, angle to a common point, arrange to both push up, both push down, or straight horizontal so one is pushing the case toward one side and the other is pushing opposite.

I dislike vibes at idle so I'm always fighting them on custom builds. I just did one with an Atlas II install, custom crossmember for it and I got it vibe free at idle by using a stock TJ trans mount.

Thanks Blaine. I talked to Dave and he's pretty intrigued by your idea. Said he's going to try and cook something up with what he has in the shop to see what happens. I will update here on findings.

I also talked to him pretty early on about a custom crossmember (my suggestion was something similar to Genright universal crossmember kit but without a body lift)
but it's something we haven't tried yet. Will have to revisit that perhaps; my patience is becoming the limiter these days.

mrblaine · Jan 21, 2019

psrivats said:
Thanks Blaine. I talked to Dave and he's pretty intrigued by your idea. Said he's going to try and cook something up with what he has in the shop to see what happens. I will update here on findings.

I also talked to him pretty early on about a custom crossmember (my suggestion was something similar to Genright universal crossmember kit but without a body lift)
but it's something we haven't tried yet. Will have to revisit that perhaps; my patience is becoming the limiter these days.

My patience became the limiter after 6 years and 100's of hours trying to solve one problem. I finally converted it back to stock and it is flawless. It may have pissed me off enough that when it comes time to hack the shit out of something for a trail rig, it just may be at the top of the list.

mattcogdell · Jan 21, 2019

mrblaine said:
My patience became the limiter after 6 years and 100's of hours trying to solve one problem. I finally converted it back to stock and it is flawless. It may have pissed me off enough that when it comes time to hack the shit out of something for a trail rig, it just may be at the top of the list.

How do you do stock and tuck the t case?

mrblaine · Jan 21, 2019

mattcogdell said:
How do you do stock and tuck the t case?

Not sure what you are asking.

mattcogdell · Jan 21, 2019

mrblaine said:
Not sure what you are asking.

Disregard that. I completely read one of your posts wrong.

glwood · Jun 23, 2019

psrivats said:
I ordered the MORYDE heavy duty hinges (not the entire kit, just the hinges) today from Retrofit Offroad (Part# JP54-025). After doing a lot of reading, I figured the full MORYDE/Exogate kit is perhaps too much for my Jeep with 32s on factory rims. I also like the fact that I can get the rest of the MORYDE kit later if I find it that the hinges alone don't cut it. I will post my thought after I get and install them.

Did you ever post any photos and/or your thoughts on the MORYDE hinges, assuming you finally installed those? I did not see a thread or a post on here, but may have missed it...

psrivats · Jun 23, 2019

glwood said:
Did you ever post any photos and/or your thoughts on the MORYDE hinges, assuming you finally installed those? I did not see a thread or a post on here, but may have missed it...

I don't think I posted a photo. I like them quite a bit, they are very beefy compared to the OEM hinges. By themselves, they are a great and needed addition to the Jeep and there are no issues whatsoever. Much better and cheaper option instead of the full setup and this is all you need for 31/32s.

I discovered a problem after installing a tailgate strut (to keep the tailgate from swinging and hitting you on the back when parked on a slope). The MORRYDE "hinge point" is now slightly further out compared to the OEM ones, and it created a small problem - the contact pins on the rear brake light switches (there are a pair on the tub, I am talking about the pair sit on the inside right edge of the tail gate itself) tended to catch on the lip of the tub some times, and the tailgate would get stuck instead of fully opening by itself with the strut as designed. I had to add a small sheet metal spacer between tub and hinge and it solved the problem.

I am in the middle of moving houses, I will take some good photos of everything and post it here next week.

glwood · Jun 23, 2019

psrivats said:
I don't think I posted a photo. I like them quite a bit, they are very beefy compared to the OEM hinges. By themselves, they are a great and needed addition to the Jeep and there are no issues whatsoever. Much better and cheaper option instead of the full setup and this is all you need for 31/32s.

I discovered a problem after installing a tailgate strut (to keep the tailgate from swinging and hitting you on the back when parked on a slope). The MORRYDE "hinge point" is now slightly further out compared to the OEM ones, and it created a small problem - the contact pins on the rear brake light switches (there are a pair on the tub, I am talking about the pair sit on the inside right edge of the tail gate itself) tended to catch on the lip of the tub some times, and the tailgate would get stuck instead of fully opening by itself with the strut as designed. I had to add a small sheet metal spacer between tub and hinge and it solved the problem.

I am in the middle of moving houses, I will take some good photos of everything and post it here next week.

Thanks. I will look for the photos.

psrivats · Jul 12, 2020

It's a little more than an year since I updated this thread. I did not do much in the latter half of 2019 other than to drive, do research, and gather information/parts. 2020, however, has been a different story. At the end of this post is a sneak peak of what's happened.

Many thanks to @David Kishpaugh at Jeep West for all the work that went into my Jeep, and for the very many discussions that has happened over time.

More details to come in the next week or so .. both technical and photos. I only took delivery today and I have a lot more observing to do. But I can tell already that things are very different in a good way.

Note that what I've ended up with is a little bit different than what most people go for. Many people may (and some people definitely will) think I left performance on the table (and perhaps be correct in a technical sense). However, I did build to a plan, even if a "flawed" one, so I'll take the full blame and not the builder.

I wholeheartedly welcome useful discussions and critiques about the build plan and the build itself when I post more details and photos.

Please note that I'm not against comparisons to other builds/builders/build philosophies - they can be very useful in the sense of progressing technical understanding for everyone and I do welcome that. I've learnt a lot just reading discussions in other builds and there are are quite a few really impressive ones on this forum. However please refrain from shit talking the builder or the shop that did the work for me.

L J · Jul 12, 2020

you made a great choice in a front sway bar

Chris · Jul 12, 2020

4 months later she’s alive! Just imagine if the vultures saw the fork lift photos

Maybe now you can stop building it and just enjoy it. I mean this is getting close to a year you’ve had it with Dave

Looks great though, I’ll bet you’re happy!

psrivats · Jul 12, 2020

L J said:
you made a great choice in a front sway bar

I wish I could have bought a Savvy designed one, but alas, I'll take comfort in the fact that Blaine atleast had a hand in the original design of the Swayloc. I've only taken it on a couple gravel road drives and it does make a difference.

AndyG · Jul 12, 2020

Good thread sir.

psrivats · Jul 12, 2020

Here are the numbers.

Overall design - Jeep West midarm with 3 link front, 4-link + trackbar rear. Outboard rear shocks, custom towers in front. Swayloc dual rate swaybar. No body lift at the moment (which I know is going to be controversial). Build is for eventual skinny 33s of some sort but not in the immediate future. Jeep currently has 32" duratracs. Overbuilt, yes

Bumpstop extension - 1.5" front and 2" rear.

Springs used: Savvy 3"
Front free length-20.6"
Rear free length - 17"

Front and rear lift height - rear is even 3", front is 3" after removing the factory 0.75" spacer and installing a 1.75" one. This was done for a very specific reason related to shock travel. Jeep is sitting at 18" from ground to to bottom of skid plate where it attaches to the frame (UCF no body lift skid).

Shocks used - Fox RR, 11" travel front, 12" travel rear. I will be adding LSCs later. RR inside the hood, and tucked up high in the rear, both nearly invisible maintaining a very stock like look.

Front extended/collapsed length - 28.10"/17.10"
Rear extended/collapsed length - 31"/19.1"

Front bias - 5.25" up, 5.75" down
Rear bias - 5.75" up, 6.25" down

Link separation - this is going to be interesting since someone will eventually put these in a link calculator and compare to Savvy. But that's ok. Dave has a different build philosophy. The best part is that his brackets have a lot of adjustability if needed.

Front axle - 8.25" (very close to stock)
Front frame - 6.75"
Rear axle - 10"
Rear frame - 4.5". Much more antisquat than savvy as a result.

I'll post some photos that Dave took during the build next.

psrivats · Jul 12, 2020

Here are some photos - not in any particular order but you can see some nice details. I am just posting the photos and brief descriptions now, will add more documentary later. Hopefully @David Kishpaugh can come in later and fill in details and add to the discussion if has time.

(Click on thumbnails to see larger pictures)

Brackets -

Arms (note that Dave's design uses bent arms in the front for clearance - we are using factory JL bushings up front on one side and JJ on other side. Rear is all JJ.).

Towers -

Front:

Rear:

Remote reservoirs mounting -

psrivats · Jul 12, 2020

I want to say that I have learned a lot in general just talking to Dave and reading all the great discussions on the forum and talking to people - many thanks to @Mr. Bills @toximus @bobthetj03 @Mike_H @jjvw for the useful discussions and discourse - you guys have shared a lot of information on this forum (and some of you personally with me) and I have learned a lot just reading what you guys discuss. There are several others here and if I include everyone this post will never end. Many thanks to @JDRAM11 @zebra12 @BuildBreakRepeat @Chris for the moral support - you guys are great.

Very special thanks to @mrblaine - I have learned the most from you, talking to you a little and mostly from reading your very informative posts. The more I learn, the more I realize I still have a very long way to go. I always will remember that knowledge is not understanding. I really respect you. You may see a lot of stuff in what I am posting that you may think this is really stupid - any faults/mistakes that you see are all mine since I gave Dave a set of constraints to build within that you may never accept to do out of your philosophy and understanding of things.

psrivats · Jul 12, 2020

For those that care - the demon vibration *seems* to be pushed up in speed. I don't know what all Dave did, need to check. I can drive at 65 without annoyance which is very nice. They still come at 70+ but they seem less jarring than before. I need more driver seat time and careful observation.

I have to update the parts list some time ... I have not updated in this thread as I should have.

psrivats' 2005 TJ Rubicon mild build

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