Broken axle shaft

So you're blaming Jerry because you only read what he posted a year or more ago and ignored everything else that says 1541h is the way to go? Don't base any decisions on one dude's opinion. The 1541h recommendation is everywhere. I've only had a jeep less than 6 months and i know 4340 in the front (Dana 30), 1541h in the back (Dana 35).

And in reality the failure that occured here really had nothing to do with the problem 4340 has in this application. 4340 is strong stuff, it's just not hard enough to run bearings on. This looks like a heat treat/strength problem to me, not hardness. In fact, the only reference i found in a 20 second google search says the ultimate strength of 4340 is higher than 1541h.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JMT
Nothing teaches like failure . Amazing , and the axle failed fast.

This is another thread where you guys knowledge of details is impressive.

I cried a while back about a low speed rear brake noise and it turned out to be a bent flange and I have some axles coming . Now I know more about what you can do with various differentials/axle steel type .

Even just watching a thread is educational.
 
No I actually said that I followed his guidance but it was my own fault for not doing more research.

Back on track... I tried everything I could to remove the drum on the other side but it was stuck solid. I called around for a drum puller but no one rents one so I ended up coming with a home made one
A1736DD1-0787-4D1B-920A-81EE039E3D12.jpeg


So what aftermarket 27 spline axle does everyone recommend?
 
  • Like
Reactions: matkal and ICDGary
1541H by Revolution G & A.

Or just look for a Dana 44 or Super35 that dude and move to 30 spline locked.

Sorry that happened man, sucks, your pretty innovative getting that drum off.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tworley and AndyG
No I actually said that I followed his guidance but it was my own fault for not doing more research.

Back on track... I tried everything I could to remove the drum on the other side but it was stuck solid. I called around for a drum puller but no one rents one so I ended up coming with a home made oneView attachment 92605

So what aftermarket 27 spline axle does everyone recommend?
I just want to add that it wasn't really you and your problems that brought all that on. There was just some some extra "jumping on" hoping to find a reason to criticize that didn't sit right with me. Not you.

Hope you get back out in the dirt soon and quadra/crown take care of you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JMT
To add to how terrible these crown axles are the story continues. I couldn’t figure why the axle wouldn’t slide in now to remove the c clip , I resorted to a BFH and it got stuff moving I removed the C clip and had to use a slide hammer to pull the axle out and found this
35C8E88C-E20F-4F16-98B6-9A2594CA08B0.jpeg

The other side was almost twisted off in the same spot! This happened with a honest to god 6 miles or less on them I can’t believe how terrible they were built
 
So you're blaming Jerry because you only read what he posted a year or more ago and ignored everything else that says 1541h is the way to go? Don't base any decisions on one dude's opinion. The 1541h recommendation is everywhere. I've only had a jeep less than 6 months and i know 4340 in the front (Dana 30), 1541h in the back (Dana 35).

And in reality the failure that occured here really had nothing to do with the problem 4340 has in this application. 4340 is strong stuff, it's just not hard enough to run bearings on. This looks like a heat treat/strength problem to me, not hardness. In fact, the only reference i found in a 20 second google search says the ultimate strength of 4340 is higher than 1541h.
This is going to be hard to say and explain, without looking like I'm attacking someone, but I'm not.

I've researched Dana 35 upgrades a number of times over the years, and came across a lot more than one thread, on several forums where Jerry did strongly recommend 4340 Dana 35 shafts (no mention of C clips or eliminators). Because I tend to research things until they start driving me crazy, I eventually saw one thread where Blaine corrected Jerry, and stated 4340 was what you want for Dana 44 axles, but not Dana 35's. Then stated as fact that 1541H is the way to go for Dana 35's with an in depth explanation as to why.

I believe at that time Jerry stopped recommending the Dana 35 4340 axle, but his recommendations are already out there, and far exceeded the recommendations for 1541H. We've all been wrong on a forum, but when many people assume a certain well known member is always right, well then this can happen.

Jerry meant well, and I assume because 4340 was the ideal alloy for Dana 44's, he assumed it was for Dana 35's also, but apparently that isn't true. If one were to Google search the topic, you'll have to spend some time doing it, because 4340 will surely show up more as GTG than 1541H, and people will usually follow the first few consistant things they see.
 
This is going to be hard to say and explain, without looking like I'm attacking someone, but I'm not.

I've researched Dana 35 upgrades a number of times over the years, and came across a lot more than one thread, on several forums where Jerry did strongly recommend 4340 Dana 35 shafts (no mention of C clips or eliminators). Because I tend to research things until they start driving me crazy, I eventually saw one thread where Blaine corrected Jerry, and stated 4340 was what you want for Dana 44 axles, but not Dana 35's. Then stated as fact that 1541H is the way to go for Dana 35's with an in depth explanation as to why.

I believe at that time Jerry stopped recommending the Dana 35 4340 axle, but his recommendations are already out there, and far exceeded the recommendations for 1541H. We've all been wrong on a forum, but when many people assume a certain well known member is always right, well then this can happen.

Jerry meant well, and I assume because 4340 was the ideal alloy for Dana 44's, he assumed it was for Dana 35's also, but apparently that isn't true. If one were to Google search the topic, you'll have to spend some time doing it, because 4340 will surely show up more as GTG than 1541H, and people will usually follow the first few consistant things they see.

@89grand is correct. And he is not attacking anyone!

Below is the post from Blaine that explains the differences between 4340 and 1541H and why 4340 is not a good choice for the Dana 35 (post is from Mar 2018). I had it bookmarked when Blaine shared that since it was very valuable information. That forum post is the original source of the photo that Jerry (correctly) shared in this thread in the right context.

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/upgrade-Dana 35-axle-shafts.9482/post-147171
@Chris you should add this to the FAQ or the how-to area. The 4340 recommendations for Dana 35 far out number the 1541H ones sadly, which has lead people astray. But atleast going forward, we can do better.
 
Last edited:
@89grand is correct. Below is the post from Blaine that explains the differences between 4340 and 1541H and why 4340 is not a good choice for the Dana 35 (post is from Mar 2018). I had it bookmarked when Blaine shared that since it was very valuable information.

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/upgrade-Dana 35-axle-shafts.9482/post-147171
@Chris you should add this to the FAQ or the how-to area.
For what it's worth, it was this explanation here in the thread mentioned that helped me choose the 1541H axles for my 8.8. Blaine's explanation was awesome, and being that the bearing rollers ride directly on the shafts in my 8.8, the 1541H axles were the way to go. However, they're not going in my TJ, they're going in my Lincoln Town Car. Good information crosses all kinds of borders! (y)
 
  • Like
Reactions: psrivats
This is going to be hard to say and explain, without looking like I'm attacking someone, but I'm not.

I've researched Dana 35 upgrades a number of times over the years, and came across a lot more than one thread, on several forums where Jerry did strongly recommend 4340 Dana 35 shafts (no mention of C clips or eliminators). Because I tend to research things until they start driving me crazy, I eventually saw one thread where Blaine corrected Jerry, and stated 4340 was what you want for Dana 44 axles, but not Dana 35's. Then stated as fact that 1541H is the way to go for Dana 35's with an in depth explanation as to why.

I believe at that time Jerry stopped recommending the Dana 35 4340 axle, but his recommendations are already out there, and far exceeded the recommendations for 1541H. We've all been wrong on a forum, but when many people assume a certain well known member is always right, well then this can happen.

Jerry meant well, and I assume because 4340 was the ideal alloy for Dana 44's, he assumed it was for Dana 35's also, but apparently that isn't true. If one were to Google search the topic, you'll have to spend some time doing it, because 4340 will surely show up more as GTG than 1541H, and people will usually follow the first few consistant things they see.
I'm not sure why the info didn't show up, but I've known about the difference and why you use them in various applications since I designed the Super 88 kit for Superior. I know I've mentioned it a lot earlier than a couple years ago. I'm also not convinced that 4340 is the ideal material for rear Dana 44 shafts. I know for a fact that 4140 is much cheaper and it rarely has a problem when done correctly. And as we can see from what Crown did, using buzz words to sell stuff is popular but not always good.
 
  • Like
Reactions: psrivats
@89grand is correct. And he is not attacking anyone!

Below is the post from Blaine that explains the differences between 4340 and 1541H and why 4340 is not a good choice for the Dana 35 (post is from Mar 2018). I had it bookmarked when Blaine shared that since it was very valuable information. That forum post is the original source of the photo that Jerry (correctly) shared in this thread in the right context.

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/upgrade-Dana 35-axle-shafts.9482/post-147171
@Chris you should add this to the FAQ or the how-to area. The 4340 recommendations for Dana 35 far out number the 1541H ones sadly, which has lead people astray. But atleast going forward, we can do better.

Good idea! I added it to the original post here:

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/should-i-upgrade-my-dana-35-axle.2925/
Thanks for the suggestion!
 
My simple mind remembers only the following from the many threads I've read on axle shafts and conversations with axle builders both in the offroad and drag racing worlds. It is what I have in my '06 Rubicon:

Front Dana 44 - 4340 chromoly
Rear Dana 44- 4140 chromoly

From my notes:

Dana 30 front - 4340 chromoly
Dana 35 rear - 1541H, not 4140 or 4340.
"Almost all imported jeep axle shafts come from the same handful of foundries in India, the difference between them is the quality of the heat treating." -Ron Stobach, Carbon Offroad.

I will leave it to the engineers, metallurgists, axle builders, and other professionals to explain why one material is preferred over another. That is above my pay grade and I would only be repeating what a real expert can say more effectively.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: JMT
My simple mind remembers only the following from the many threads I've read on axle shafts and conversations with axle builders both in the offroad and drag racing worlds and what I have in my '06 Rubicon:

Front Dana 44 - 4340 chromoly
Rear Dana 44- 4140 chromoly

From my notes:

Dana 30 front - 4340 chromoly
Dana 35 rear - 1541H, not 4140 or 4340.

I will leave it to the engineers, metallurgists, axle builders, and other professionals to explain why. That is above my pay grade.
I am none of those but the answer is very simple as to why one is correct and one isn't. Some steel alloys are through hardening like 4340 and some are case hardening like 1541H. The issue with through hardening alloys is if you get the surface hard enough to run a bearing on, it is difficult to draw the core back down to a ductile state to reduce brittleness. The general solution is to keep them ductile which produces the worn groove you see above.
 
Revolution Gear and Axle Dana 44, 4340 Chromoly US Made Rear Axle Kit
"While other manufacturers use 4140 Chromoly, Revolution Gear and Axle’s US Made axles utilize 4340 Chromoly for maximum strength and a lifetime of trouble-free performance."

Now I'm confused, I thought RG&A was the bee's knees.
 
Now I'm confused, I thought RG&A was the bee's knees.

It is a good company, but not the "be all, end all" of axle shaft and gear set suppliers. Like everyone else they promote what they sell.

As far as RG&A's offerings of chromoly axle shafts for the Jeep TJ/LJ Dana 44, did you notice that RG&A used to list imported 4140 chromoly 30-spline axle shafts for the rear Rubicon Dana 44 as well as their line of "made in U.S.A" 4340 axles but currently list only the domestic 4340 chromoly shafts?

Rather than their line of imported 4140 chromoly Dana 44 rear axle shafts they now show "replacement" axles made from 1541H steel. (Or perhaps I just couldn't find the listing for the imported chromoly shafts they used to sell.)

I suspect that the RG&A marketing pitch you quoted simply reflects their current inventory.
 
Last edited:
It is a good company
I'm not trying to debate company standings, it's just confusing with all these numbers flying around. I do not see any situation I'll come close to breaking the shafts I have. You just want to assume "Made in USA" is the best you can put your money on.
Honestly, had I not received a hookup from AOR, I would have gone with the almost $100 cheaper (price only) carbon offroad shafts.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JMT