Wildman's TJ is getting a face lift

Nothing exciting but the new winch plate came in also. Ordered it from TMR along with some weld on zip tie tabs.

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I'm going to keep my current front bumper but cut off the mounting plate that's there and then install this one.
When I built my front bumper YEARS ago I had planned on using a low profile winch. Then when I got the 8274 I tried to modify the bumper to mount it. But I got something out of alignment and the winch never mounted flat. For anyone who had dealt with a 8274 if it isn't mounted flat it won't free spool.

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I'm also going to rebuild my 8274 while I am working on the Jeep and swap out the stock 2.5HP motor with a 9.5XP motor which is a 6HP motor. There are some very good write-ups and videos on how to disassemble and reassemble the 8274.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/my-warn-8274-rebuild-part-1.197470/
 
Okay I'd like to get @RangerRick to hopefully comment on this to one help others if they decide to try a engine swap and two to help point me in the right direction before I start on my wiring.
I have been scoring tons of build thread on V-8 swaps into TJ's using the magnum V-8. While it isn't a high H.P. engine it can make decent numbers with a little work. And even though they haven't been in production now for 13 years there is still a following of them. Facebook has a few groups dedicated to them and doing performance modifications.

So there seems to be two different ways to do your wiring when trying to tackle this swap.
1) Use the existing TJ wiring harness and then cut off the TJ sensor plugs and measure the length needed for the V-8 while using the V-8 sensor plugs. Then solder & heat shrink the wires from the V-8 plugs into the TJ harness. Then take the 2 or 4 needed wires for the additional injectors and pin them into the appropriate PCM plug. This seems to work best for those who are doing the swap and plan on retaining a manual transmission.

2) Use the Dodge V-8 harness by removing all the looming and removing any unneeded wires by depinning them. Then once that is done taking the TJ harness and adding the needed TJ wires into the Dodge harness. This method seems to be more popular with the people who are using the Dodge automatic transmission. At this point I am thinking this is the way I want to go when I attempt to build my new wiring harness. But I will of course default to those who have more experiance than I.

Because I have a early TJ as I said earlier it seems there is a difference in the wiring harnesses. I haven't had a chance to really look at the wiring diagrams but from what I have read the FSM doesn't show the differences in the early models. Again hopefully @RangerRick will shed some light on the subject.
 
I forgot to mention that I am on light duty for almost two weeks. I had to have a small surgery on my back this past Monday and just had a checkup with the doctor today. Asked when I could start to play some again and me told me I had to wait until 24 Feb at least which is when my next appointment is. Once he checks me out then he'll determine if I can start wrenching. Weather had been getting warmer and I was looking forward to starting to mess around in the garage.
 
Okay I'd like to get @RangerRick to hopefully comment on this to one help others if they decide to try a engine swap and two to help point me in the right direction before I start on my wiring.
I have been scoring tons of build thread on V-8 swaps into TJ's using the magnum V-8. While it isn't a high H.P. engine it can make decent numbers with a little work. And even though they haven't been in production now for 13 years there is still a following of them. Facebook has a few groups dedicated to them and doing performance modifications.

So there seems to be two different ways to do your wiring when trying to tackle this swap.
1) Use the existing TJ wiring harness and then cut off the TJ sensor plugs and measure the length needed for the V-8 while using the V-8 sensor plugs. Then solder & heat shrink the wires from the V-8 plugs into the TJ harness. Then take the 2 or 4 needed wires for the additional injectors and pin them into the appropriate PCM plug. This seems to work best for those who are doing the swap and plan on retaining a manual transmission.

2) Use the Dodge V-8 harness by removing all the looming and removing any unneeded wires by depinning them. Then once that is done taking the TJ harness and adding the needed TJ wires into the Dodge harness. This method seems to be more popular with the people who are using the Dodge automatic transmission. At this point I am thinking this is the way I want to go when I attempt to build my new wiring harness. But I will of course default to those who have more experiance than I.

Because I have a early TJ as I said earlier it seems there is a difference in the wiring harnesses. I haven't had a chance to really look at the wiring diagrams but from what I have read the FSM doesn't show the differences in the early models. Again hopefully @RangerRick will shed some light on the subject.

Perceptive of you to see this on the two ways of going with the harnesses in a Magnum V8 swap.

In my two cases of swaps I used the ZJ Grand Cherokee engine bay harness cutting it off at the plug on the firewall and used the Jeep 2.5L early harness for parts to add into the ZJ Grand's harness. I also used the TJ alternator and charging circuit wiring separately from the plug-in ZJ harness. On ZJ's and possibly RAMs the charging harness section for the alternator/generator plugs in with a 6 pin plug. I used the TJ's electrical connections for the alternator but used the high-amp ZJ alternator that was already mounted on the V8 engine.

I used both plugs that go into the firewall on the TJ, adding those to the ZJ harnesses, I also used the fuel pump wiring,plug and sender harness from the TJ and added it to the ZJ's harness since the ZJ harness has an in-cab harness for the fuel pump and sender. This way the routing and sorting of the loom over the finished harness was fitted to the V8 properly and the wiring that goes to the fuel tank & sender was the correct length and routed properly as well.

Using the ZJ harness meant that all the connections to the engine itself were in the correct spot and all the engine grounds with the exception of the added for charging were in the same spot.

I also added the TCR, (transmission control relay & its fuse) into an empty spot on the original TJ PDC mounted on the passenger fender. I added ALL the needed connections to the Jeeps original PDC rather than try to cludge the ZJ's PDC that was full of un-needed relays and fuses for things that weren't options on a TJ ever. In the end, it all looks factory and fit like it belonged.

The more I worked on these harnesses, the more I realized that they were the same beast and with the exception of very minor things, everything on a RAM, ZJ or TJ were basically the same. Even every pin on the ECM is in the same place, just some vehicles have more pins because they have more electronics on board. It all started to make total and perfect sense once I got into it.

Having the factory manuals as pictured in my build thread was a key to understanding the differences between vehicle platforms. The particular year 1997 has some unique things like early TJ's had all different connectors on the harnesses for different plugs only used on the early years 1996 & 1997 TJ's. The VSS, Manifold air TEMP, TPS, INJECTORS and COOLANT sensor plugs were ALL different than my 1998 TJ. It showed in the manual pictured in my build the EXACT pin difference as some had the power, return and grounds switched around in the connector compared to later 1997 and newer TJ's with the same bus system.

The manual actually compared the ZJ & TJ together side-by-side in the book showing the differences in wiring to the ECM and what was different. I CANNOT STRESS ENOUGH HOW IMPORTANT THIS ELECTRICAL BOOK SHOWN IN MY BUILD WAS FOR USING THE ZJ HARNESS ON THE TJ BUILD. It opened my eyes and from there I was able to fully understand the harness in detail so I could customize it to look factory.

Mind you, one ZJ was a 5.9L & the other was a 5.2L and other than the cooling system with the E-fan on the 5.9L, everything was identical harness wise and would fit either engine perfectly. A RAM, Durango or Dakota will be very similar to the ZJ harness so I would use the truck harness and add the TJ firewall plugs plus the TJ fuel pump & sender harness to the under-hood RAM/DURANGO/DAKOTA harness. I would also use the charging system sub-harness from the TJ and connect it to the alternator that is on the V8 already. I would just re-wire the ECM charge control wire and also use the TJ battery thermal sensor on the RAM harness for an automatic.

On a manual, it may be easier to just add the wiring from the RAM truck to the TJ harness and re-loom or re-shape the harness to fit the V8 with the added wiring as needed. You wouldn't need any of the transmission harness plug wiring with a manual but would want to retain the neutral safety switch and backup lamp wiring the way it was done in the TJ so that's probably the biggest reason manual transmission swappers keep the TJ harness over using the RAM/ZJ harnesses.

RR
 
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@RangerRick
Thank you for replying. I am going to go buy a few ink cartridge's and print off my 97 TJ manual and then the 98 Ram manual pages I need and spend some time trying to remember all the wiring stuff the military spent tons of money trying to teach me. It's amazing how much I don't remember or can't recall anymore. But I think I can handle this.
I know you have a harness done and it's a drop in but I want to TRY to do this so I can try and diagnose issues easier if I have any in the future.

Some of the things I was fighting before I parked my Jeep was:
1) My speedo had stopped working. My Jeep is unique in some ways because of the mods I have. With the STaK's transfer case they used a speed sensor like is stock in a Rubicon if I remember correctly. So it wouldn't talk to my speedo until I used a Superlift Truspeed Calibrator to get a signal that I could use. So I need to figure out WHY???

2) I'd added a bunch of aux wiring and want to try to clean a lot of it up.

3) I have a Premier Power Welder w/ 185 amp alt so I don't use the stock alternator wiring it's just laying on the intake manifold. Some models get a check engine light becasue of this but I haven't.

4) My transmission had started to not shift correctly and I am not sure if it was because of the tranny or the wiring. I have a new transmission for my new engine so that isn't a problem if it was because of the tranny.

Once I get off light duty I hope the weather is better and I can start messing around in my garage.
 
Something I don't see a lot of people talking about when doing the Magnum V-8 swap is setting the fuel sync. The Magnum engines use the distributor not for timing but instead to tell the injectors when to pulse and squirt fuel into the cylinder. Now if you don't know about this and turn the distributor trying to set the timing or if you added performance parts or a new cam you need to set the fuel sync with a scan tool.
Of course the EXPENSIVE way is to take it to a dealership and have them set the fuel sync for you. Now I don't know if they will set it to whatever setting you want or to factory settings. The next option is to buy your own scanner. I know there are many scanners that CAN do this BUT I choose to use a Snap On MT2500 like this one on Ebay.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-...0001&campid=5337789113&icep_item=333489856702

This PDF file explains it more.
 

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Been reading and reading and reading more threads of people who have done the Magnum V-8 swap.

https://bit.ly/2Hw0KJg
https://bit.ly/2wj4RpM
This one over on JF is 180 pages long with a lot of good information.

https://bit.ly/322qVAZ
Each of these the person USED the TJ harness and spliced in the needed wires from the Ram harness. This seems to work better if you are going with a manual transmission.

As was discussed above if you are going to use the auto transmission it seems to make more sense to use the Ram harness and blend in the needed TJ wires. But since I have NEVER done this myself YET I can't say 100%. But it is the way I am going to try and make my new harness.

The only other news right now is that I have some new ball joints getting delivered tonight from Bone Fish Fabrication. I've never had any problems with ball joints on my HP44 front axle but I figured I would install these as an ounce of prevention instead of waiting for it to happen. We'll see how these hold up and if I have any issues with them. I'll post some pictures once they get here and also when I install them.
 
Perceptive of you to see this on the two ways of going with the harnesses in a Magnum V8 swap.

In my two cases of swaps I used the ZJ Grand Cherokee engine bay harness cutting it off at the plug on the firewall and used the Jeep 2.5L early harness for parts to add into the ZJ Grand's harness. I also used the TJ alternator and charging circuit wiring separately from the plug-in ZJ harness. On ZJ's and possibly RAMs the charging harness section for the alternator/generator plugs in with a 6 pin plug. I used the TJ's electrical connections for the alternator but used the high-amp ZJ alternator that was already mounted on the V8 engine.

I used both plugs that go into the firewall on the TJ, adding those to the ZJ harnesses, I also used the fuel pump wiring,plug and sender harness from the TJ and added it to the ZJ's harness since the ZJ harness has an in-cab harness for the fuel pump and sender. This way the routing and sorting of the loom over the finished harness was fitted to the V8 properly and the wiring that goes to the fuel tank & sender was the correct length and routed properly as well.

Made an account as I have ran into a snag on the ZJ firewall plug wire swap. I am wondering what you did for the VSS signal WT/OR wire, Reverse lamp BR/LG. If you have a list possibly of the Tj firewall side, I have 9 wires un-accounted for on my 98 2.5. Engine is mounted, seems like most of the dash stuff works (it cranks over, and will sputter to life with starting fluid, as there is no fuel pump yet).
 
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Made an account as I have ran into a snag on the ZJ firewall plug wire swap. I am wondering what you did for the VSS signal WT/OR wire, Reverse lamp BR/LG. If you have a list possibly of the Tj firewall side, I have 9 wires un-accounted for on my 98 2.5. Engine is mounted, seems like most of the dash stuff works (it cranks over, and will sputter to life with starting fluid, as there is no fuel pump yet).

I wish I could help you out but I didn't build my first wiring harness. And my 97 has a different firewall plug than yours since mine was a early 1996 build.

Dang, those are some beefy looking ball joints 😲

By his explanation on the web site it is a solid ball joint so it won't break like a normal one. Now the question is if the ears on my axle will be what breaks instead.
 
I think we talked about it in private at one point, but you ought to compile all these Magnum V8 swap resources and information you're posting into one big thread so I can stick it in the TJ Resources section. I have to imagine at some point this info will come in handy to someone else, I just don't want it to be buried in a build thread :)
 
I think we talked about it in private at one point, but you ought to compile all these Magnum V8 swap resources and information you're posting into one big thread so I can stick it in the TJ Resources section. I have to imagine at some point this info will come in handy to someone else, I just don't want it to be buried in a build thread :)

Yes once I get done building my new harness I plan on trying to put it all into a thread for you. I agree that it would be nice to have it all in one spot for future swaps that people might be trying.
The biggest issue is that those doing a manual swap would be doing it differently than those who would be doing an automatic swap.
And trying to wade thru the 180 page thread on JF while informative it is a lot to try and take in.
 
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I’m glad you still have the Jeep. I did the same conversion, and I think we did it the same time. Im pretty sure we even discussed the conversion back in the day lol.
 
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I’m glad you still have the Jeep. I did the same conversion, and I think we did it the same time. Im pretty sure we even discussed the conversion back in the day lol.
Yes still have it but it has been down now for about 8 years. Hope to be able to have it back on the trails this year if everything goes right.
 
And trying to wade thru the 180 page thread on JF while informative it is a lot to try and take in.

Tell me about it. I can't even tell you how many times I've found a good, informative thread that was hundreds of pages long. Oh how I wish someone would just organize those threads so that all the useful information is in the first post, or even add a "table of contents" to it. It would certainly make wading through all the nonsense so much easier.
 
It's the same with some of the other information like which upper and lower radiator hoses to use. And other items that work or don't work depending.

Then there is those who use their stock radiator and have to cross the hoses to the opposite side to make them work. I get that some are trying to do this on the cheap but IMHO there is a time to cut corners and then there is a time not to. It's the same as those who bound the firewall in so they can push the engine back enough to make the transmission & t-case fit in the stock locations so they don't need new drivelines.

I'll admit I CHOCKED when I was told how much mine were going to cost. But I had flanges on the front and rear of my t-case and went with 1350 joints due to the amount of torque the STaK's could make. Once I start working on my wiring harness I'll try to start working on a thread for you.
 
Well, thanks anyways. its all good, I'll go by process of elimination. LOL. The FSM pinout numbers and colors dont match up with any other parts of the diagrams, I ended up using a DMM and going by continuity to get all the main circuits wired. I have it 99% done I believe as it cranks and sputters to life with starting fluid. RPM gauge works, etc. I can hear the fuel pump relay kicking on, trans relay is wired in as well, and I BELIEVE I have the generator field circuit wired correctly, the c101/103 connectors on the ZJ harness just have more wires coming out of it that arent accounted for (VSS and REV. light)

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