Yea u can do all that in the jeep. After hearing this video check ur flexplate good, could b. Did u remove the access plate yet and check the torque converter bolts. If u decide to drop the pan remove the the pipe and taking the starter off helps too. U don't have to remove the wires ,remove the bolts and lay it on the frame out of the way.
Help Diagnosing Engine Knock
- Thread starter The Goblin
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- engine knock flex plate
fourpointzero
TJ Addict
Mine doesn’t get lounder with load or higher rpm’s. And I’ve got a manual. So for me, it’s def not a flexplate issue.
I can see it being worn bearings. And who knows if the person who owned it before me bogged the engine often. She was a young driver.
OP
Yeah, I’ve actually pulled the bolts and reinstalled them with lock tite. They were good and snug to begin with, but I thought I would check them just in case. I really think I’m going to need to back the trans out and get a good luck at the flex plate just to be sure.
In the mean time, I’m going to go do another oil change and see if there are any metal particles in the oil. That should be a telltale sign if a bearing is worn. Thanks for the advice on dropping the pan.
yours does NOT get louder with load or rpms? Hmmm. Not sure what that could be.
fourpointzero
TJ Addict
Odd as it may be, it doesn’t. Listening to the audio on your video clip, my ‘rattle’ is different as well. And Not a single mechanic was certain as to what it is. About 3 years ago I had the compression checked and all was well there too. Noisy 4 liters is all I hear people say. But there’s certainly many, many quiet running TJ’s. So I’ll keep it going till it craps out......if it does.
OP
Lol. I can totally understand that! I've had three different mechanics give me three different opinions! No one seems to be real confident on what it is. Good luck with yours!
OP
Well, I drained the oil and this is what I saw...
some little “sparklies”. Not a lot, per se, but a few. Some are brass colored. Think it’s a bearing?
So this may be a dumb question, but is there a “mostly normal” amount of metal particles in used oil? Or is it ALWAYS a bad sign?
I don’t have any oil pressure issues though. Would a rod bearing have low oil pressure? Or is that just main bearings?
some little “sparklies”. Not a lot, per se, but a few. Some are brass colored. Think it’s a bearing?
So this may be a dumb question, but is there a “mostly normal” amount of metal particles in used oil? Or is it ALWAYS a bad sign?
I don’t have any oil pressure issues though. Would a rod bearing have low oil pressure? Or is that just main bearings?
Airjunky
TJ Enthusiast
I went thru this a year ago. It's all documented here; https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/4-0-engine-knock.21539/
In the end it was a rod bearing that failed. I chose to rebuild the engine since it never grenaded. Took me a few weeks & about $1800 but the engine runs great now.
Pull your oil pan & you will be able to tell if the rod bearings are good.
Good luck
In the end it was a rod bearing that failed. I chose to rebuild the engine since it never grenaded. Took me a few weeks & about $1800 but the engine runs great now.
Pull your oil pan & you will be able to tell if the rod bearings are good.
Good luck
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OP
Yeah, I think I will cut it open to see what it's got in there.
Thanks Airjunky, that's really helpful. I will check out your post. Really appreciate it. I think I'm going to pull the pan after I cut open the oil filter. It's time to get in there and see what's going on. I thought I could try and pull the spark plugs and push down on the pistons to see if there is any movement, but with the way the plugs are along the side of the engine and not directly on top, I don't think that is going to work. I think the only thing to do is pull the pan.
Yep. These metal particles are what I found from draining the oil yesterday.
OP
Ok, so strange findings. I still have my old filter from when I changed the oil a couple hundred miles ago, just after I bought the Jeep. Before I changed the oil, I ran a can of Seafoam in it and drove it for a bit, as the bottle says to. Then I drained the oil and added new oil with a quart of Lucas hoping to get rid of a loud ticking coming from the top of the engine.
The ticking did go away but when I leaned down and looked under the engine to check for any oil leaks I noticed this knocking sound. I can’t say if it was there before or not because all I could hear was the ticking.
So tonight I drained the old filter from that first oil change and all I found was black old oil. No metal particles in the filter. I even cut it open and pulled out the cardboard fins and stretched them open to see. Nothing.
So I went and pulled off the new filter for the oil I just drained that had the metal pieces in it. And what I saw was a bit disheartening to say the least. Take a look at this video and tell me what you think. It looks like copper glitter in the oil...
I’m going to ask the stupid question here, is this any sort of normal? I have never changed oil after only a few hundred miles, and I’ve never seen oil that has been treated with Lucas. So is this normal? Or does this look like copper particles to you?
Thoughts?
The ticking did go away but when I leaned down and looked under the engine to check for any oil leaks I noticed this knocking sound. I can’t say if it was there before or not because all I could hear was the ticking.
So tonight I drained the old filter from that first oil change and all I found was black old oil. No metal particles in the filter. I even cut it open and pulled out the cardboard fins and stretched them open to see. Nothing.
So I went and pulled off the new filter for the oil I just drained that had the metal pieces in it. And what I saw was a bit disheartening to say the least. Take a look at this video and tell me what you think. It looks like copper glitter in the oil...
I’m going to ask the stupid question here, is this any sort of normal? I have never changed oil after only a few hundred miles, and I’ve never seen oil that has been treated with Lucas. So is this normal? Or does this look like copper particles to you?
Thoughts?
Yeah bud I hate to say it but you have something going on internally. I drain my oil every 5k miles and while it comes out dark there’s never ANY particles in it. Nor should there be. I think it’s time to bite the bullet and remove the oil pan to see what’s going on in there.
Sorry about asking again after you posted. I only saw to the bottom of the first page for some reason. And that oil doesn't look good. Maybe some sparkles if you just rebuilt it and used tons of moly assembly lube. You didn't though. And if it's making noise.......
TJ2
TJ Expert
NO metal particles should be in the engine oil. Those metal shavings looks like bushings based from how you described them.
I suspect your camshaft / crankshaft bearing bushing assemblies have some slide-fit issue creating out of tolerance in concentricity.
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OP
Ok, thanks man. I was afraid of that. But I think you're right, I think it's time to take a look inside... Woohoo!
No worries! Yeah, I think it's not good. I'm a bit frustrated at the moment, but all I can do is move forward, right?
Yep. Those are metal slivers. The filter was full of a much more fine "glitter" type of particles, whereas these came right out of the pan when I drained the oil.
Dang! Nice graphic! Thanks for sharing that! It actually helped a lot! I think you are right, I think there's probably some bearing issues going on.
Alright, thanks a ton. I just ordered a replacement gasket, so I think I'm ready to start working on it.
I will keep you all posted. Thanks SO much for all your help with this! This is seriously an amazing community!
OP
After many hours of fighting with rusted bolts, I finally got the exhaust off. It took a propane torch, a breaker bar, penetrating oil, a Dremel, an angle grinder, and finally a trusted saws-all, lol, but I got it.
Other than the oil pan, any recommendations of what I should do/change while I have the exhaust and cats out? I have easy access to the two upper o2 sensors, but they haven’t given me any trouble so I don’t want to just start ripping things apart for no reason, ya know?
Now that I can see the oil pan bolts/nuts, any recommendations on how to remove the bolts that are closest to the bell housing? They seem to be half covered so I don’t think I could get a socket on them
Other than the oil pan, any recommendations of what I should do/change while I have the exhaust and cats out? I have easy access to the two upper o2 sensors, but they haven’t given me any trouble so I don’t want to just start ripping things apart for no reason, ya know?
Now that I can see the oil pan bolts/nuts, any recommendations on how to remove the bolts that are closest to the bell housing? They seem to be half covered so I don’t think I could get a socket on them
OP
Bwaha! Amen man!Some times it's a struggle to bust a nut, especially with age
You can get to the rear ones with a socket. That piece that is close to them is rubber clad metal. You can wiggle it in there.
Ok, thanks for the info on those bolts!