Has anyone ever done a swap in their 4L TJ to the 5.9L Grand Cherokee Ltd?
Is it possible?
Is it a direct bolt in?
Is it possible?
Is it a direct bolt in?
4.0 to 5.9 Swap
- Thread starter tjroughrider
- Start date
Has someone done it? Probably...Is it a bolt in? absolutely not. An engine change is NEVER a bolt in
Hmmm, let's see off the top of my head you will need...
Cut off old frame motor mount brackets, weld on new brackets.
Relocate underhood accessories to make room for wider motor.
Would need to check for interference between cylinder head and steering column shaft.
Check for front drive shaft to manifold header interference.
Modify or adapt throttle linkage, and kickdown if automatic.
Complete wiring harness and ecu for V8.
Compatible instrument cluster for V8 ecu.
Complete fuel rail system and maybe pressure regulator.
Compatible transmission and T-case.
Adapt radiator and heater core hoses.
Modified transmission mounting.
Might need new driveshafts if the T-case position changes significantly.
Cut off old frame motor mount brackets, weld on new brackets.
Relocate underhood accessories to make room for wider motor.
Would need to check for interference between cylinder head and steering column shaft.
Check for front drive shaft to manifold header interference.
Modify or adapt throttle linkage, and kickdown if automatic.
Complete wiring harness and ecu for V8.
Compatible instrument cluster for V8 ecu.
Complete fuel rail system and maybe pressure regulator.
Compatible transmission and T-case.
Adapt radiator and heater core hoses.
Modified transmission mounting.
Might need new driveshafts if the T-case position changes significantly.
oldb
TJ Enthusiast
Engine swaps are always harder then you think they will be. The little things will drive you crazy. Mr GASnBRASS is being charitable, although he qualified his list as being what comes to mind quickly.
As pointed out in the Novak website, too many people want to swap a certain engine in because they have one. Out back, under the workbench what ever. Good start for you asking for opinions on the 5.9. I would look at weight, aftermarket support, are the adapters for the transmission you want to use in your price range, do the accessories mount high or low where they will contact the upper control arms, things like that. Figure out what all the parts you are going to need will cost, then I would say add at least 30% for miscalculation, and probably the most important thing is how long can you be without your Jeep, because your first swap will take a lot more time than you are probably planning as well.
Best of luck with what ever you decide,
B
As pointed out in the Novak website, too many people want to swap a certain engine in because they have one. Out back, under the workbench what ever. Good start for you asking for opinions on the 5.9. I would look at weight, aftermarket support, are the adapters for the transmission you want to use in your price range, do the accessories mount high or low where they will contact the upper control arms, things like that. Figure out what all the parts you are going to need will cost, then I would say add at least 30% for miscalculation, and probably the most important thing is how long can you be without your Jeep, because your first swap will take a lot more time than you are probably planning as well.
Best of luck with what ever you decide,
B
I wouldn't do it. That 5.9 V8 in the Grand Cherokees is supposedly a big POS. That's just what I've read when I was doing the research.
If you're going to go through the effort of swapping in a V8, put in a Chevy V8 or a Hemi.
If you're going to go through the effort of swapping in a V8, put in a Chevy V8 or a Hemi.
Jeepaholic
TJ Enthusiast
Novak adapters has an extensive write up on it. I have most everything I need to do it, minus the engine. I have one, but its not very streetable. I'm probably going to go with a 350 4 bolt main. You can get them with 300 HP for under 3k all day long carbureted and under 5k for fuel injected. The chevy engines peak torque rpm compared to the 4.0 is a little higher, but you probably would notice it unless you wheel moab everyday.
Another advantage to the swap is the sound it would make after
https://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/engines/swap-guides/chevy-buick-gm/
Another advantage to the swap is the sound it would make after
https://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/engines/swap-guides/chevy-buick-gm/
It's as close to "direct bolt in" as you're ever going to get for an early TJ Wrangler (1996-2000). OP, what year is your TJ? I am half way through this swap right now and have very little money in it because I have an entire ZJ Grand Limited donor vehicle for the swap. I might do an article on the conversion for those interested.
Incidentally,
Novak has next to ZERO information on MOPAR swaps for TJ. The reason isn't because it's not a good swap, It's because you don't need any expensive adapters from them to do a MOPAR Magnum V8 Jeep swap like this.
FWIW YMMV
Rick
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An article would be very much appreciated, only because this is one swap I haven't seen much about.
I do agree that having the entire donor vehicle will make life ten times easier, that's for sure.
I've considered this too having owned a 5.9 Grand. It was an awesome vehicle.
And I agree it is the best plug and play V8 option for a Wrangler.
The first Brute AEV did had a 5.9. Long before the Hemi... actually pentroof V8 was built.
The Hemi really is not a Hemi.
And I agree it is the best plug and play V8 option for a Wrangler.
The first Brute AEV did had a 5.9. Long before the Hemi... actually pentroof V8 was built.
The Hemi really is not a Hemi.
Even the 5.2L 318 C.I. V8 is no slouch compared to the 2.5L or 4.0L engine. Every bit helps sometimes when you have heavy armor, big axles and large heavy wheels and tires weighing in at well over 100 Lbs each. The rolling inertia to get those tires moving is where the V8 shines. On the average rock crawling trail, even the 4 cylinder sometimes has enough power.
Published specifications of the various motors:
2.5L 4 cylinder AMC design: 120 HP @ 5200 RPM and 143 Lb FT @ 3250 RPM
4.0L 6 cylinder AMC design: 190 HP @ 4600 RPM and 225-235 Lb Ft @ 3000-3200 RPM (variation is cylinder head dependent)
5.2L 8 cylinder ChryCo design: 220-230 HP @ 4400 RPM and 300 Lb Ft @ 3200 RPM (variation is due to exhaust & intake systems)
5.9L 8 cylinder ChryCo design: 245 HP @ 4000 RPM and 335 Lb Ft @ 3200 RPM
The 5.2L heads flow better, are less prone to cracking and can be adapted to the 5.9L engine. Aftermarket heads and intake can make the biggest gains on both motors.
The single biggest handicap on the 5.9L engine is the stock production cylinder heads and mild cam profile the factory gave them.
5.9L engines are externally balanced, the flex plate and flywheel from a 5.2L engine should not be used on the 5.9L or there can be moderate to severe engine RPM vibrations.
The 5.2L engine comes with a 44RE 4 speed transmission mated to it. This is a medium duty transmission that can be beefed up in several areas to make it much stronger. Any time this transmission is going to be rebuilt, it is a good idea to do all updates and strength modifications for a long life in severe duty 4WD V8 service.
The 5.9L engine comes with a 46RE 4 speed transmission mated to it. This is a heavier duty transmission than the 42RE behind the 6 cylinder engines or the 44RE behind the 5.2L V8. It has a larger input and pump assembly and several other internal upgrades that are similar to the TF727. This transmission also has several updates that should be done if you are going to rebuild it as well. It is the better of the family and will work behind the 5.2L V8 provided you use the correct flexplate and torque converter for an internally balanced engine.
As I mentioned before, the JTec Jeep ECMs all use the same pinout configuration and the difference in the 1990's and early 2000's Jeeps is in the harness wire count, length and connector configuration at the various sensors. IE: the TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) may have the wiring switched from pins 1, 2 & 3 to 3, 1 & 2 for Ground, signal and Voltage feed. The alternators are still controlled by the ECM for charging and regulation, and the way the ASD (Auto ShutDown Relay) is wired into the harness may vary. Overall on many engine swaps, the number of actual changes needed to the Jeep TJ harness numbers around 15 to 18, with the plugs on the various sensors being a big chunk of that.
Yes @billiebob true dat! What MOPAR calls a Hemi today is in fact not a true Hemispherical combustion chamber engine. It's closer related to a "Wedge" motor. However, they are definitely more efficient and make gobs more power so If I owned a 2005 or 2006 TJ/LJ Wrangler, I would install an early production 5.7L Hemi instead of the Magnum family of reworked LA series engines. I would also choose a more modern automatic transmission to go with that newer engine with more gearing options.
Rick
Published specifications of the various motors:
2.5L 4 cylinder AMC design: 120 HP @ 5200 RPM and 143 Lb FT @ 3250 RPM
4.0L 6 cylinder AMC design: 190 HP @ 4600 RPM and 225-235 Lb Ft @ 3000-3200 RPM (variation is cylinder head dependent)
5.2L 8 cylinder ChryCo design: 220-230 HP @ 4400 RPM and 300 Lb Ft @ 3200 RPM (variation is due to exhaust & intake systems)
5.9L 8 cylinder ChryCo design: 245 HP @ 4000 RPM and 335 Lb Ft @ 3200 RPM
The 5.2L heads flow better, are less prone to cracking and can be adapted to the 5.9L engine. Aftermarket heads and intake can make the biggest gains on both motors.
The single biggest handicap on the 5.9L engine is the stock production cylinder heads and mild cam profile the factory gave them.
5.9L engines are externally balanced, the flex plate and flywheel from a 5.2L engine should not be used on the 5.9L or there can be moderate to severe engine RPM vibrations.
The 5.2L engine comes with a 44RE 4 speed transmission mated to it. This is a medium duty transmission that can be beefed up in several areas to make it much stronger. Any time this transmission is going to be rebuilt, it is a good idea to do all updates and strength modifications for a long life in severe duty 4WD V8 service.
The 5.9L engine comes with a 46RE 4 speed transmission mated to it. This is a heavier duty transmission than the 42RE behind the 6 cylinder engines or the 44RE behind the 5.2L V8. It has a larger input and pump assembly and several other internal upgrades that are similar to the TF727. This transmission also has several updates that should be done if you are going to rebuild it as well. It is the better of the family and will work behind the 5.2L V8 provided you use the correct flexplate and torque converter for an internally balanced engine.
As I mentioned before, the JTec Jeep ECMs all use the same pinout configuration and the difference in the 1990's and early 2000's Jeeps is in the harness wire count, length and connector configuration at the various sensors. IE: the TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) may have the wiring switched from pins 1, 2 & 3 to 3, 1 & 2 for Ground, signal and Voltage feed. The alternators are still controlled by the ECM for charging and regulation, and the way the ASD (Auto ShutDown Relay) is wired into the harness may vary. Overall on many engine swaps, the number of actual changes needed to the Jeep TJ harness numbers around 15 to 18, with the plugs on the various sensors being a big chunk of that.
Yes @billiebob true dat! What MOPAR calls a Hemi today is in fact not a true Hemispherical combustion chamber engine. It's closer related to a "Wedge" motor. However, they are definitely more efficient and make gobs more power so If I owned a 2005 or 2006 TJ/LJ Wrangler, I would install an early production 5.7L Hemi instead of the Magnum family of reworked LA series engines. I would also choose a more modern automatic transmission to go with that newer engine with more gearing options.
Rick
lostintime
Member
I have the Jeep, It is down again for more axle and suspension upgrades. I had done several upgrades to Dana 44 axles and then changed my mind, went to Rock Jock 60 and selectable lockers instead of the Detroits. I am now upgrading the body with flat fenders, side armor and different rock sliders. Changing some things in the steering and redoing the lift kit I had on it. I integrated a tummy tuck so that was fairly involved but seamless with the engine conversion. Once this round of upgrades are done, she will be back on and off the road again, ready for action.
This spring I will be adding more pictures. It's hard though, when you are working on 4 jeeps at once. I have a ZJ project for a friend going. Then there's my old iron project CJ with the Cummins 3.9B-T in it I am still working on. I have my wifes JKUR that I am getting ready for summer trail rides with the family so adding some suspension upgrades and of course my V8 TJ that once again is being upgraded. Decided to install the flat-fenders and cut the original fenders up so I could mount the inside liners to the flat fenders and keep all accessories where they belong originally. Want it to look factory.... Sounded simple........ Well..... There's always a bit more work than just a simple "cut here" and "tack weld there" kinda modification.
I had a Dana 44 Rubicon front axle in it and then decided to put the heavier duty axle in place. Well that required lots of work and the steering that I will be running is now going to be flat-top knuckles with full crossover hydro assist. No whimpy hollow tubing that will bend like a pretzel off-road.
Are Jeeps ever actually finished?
RR
I had a Dana 44 Rubicon front axle in it and then decided to put the heavier duty axle in place. Well that required lots of work and the steering that I will be running is now going to be flat-top knuckles with full crossover hydro assist. No whimpy hollow tubing that will bend like a pretzel off-road.
Are Jeeps ever actually finished?
RR
KCNoDots
TJ Enthusiast
RR hasn't been on here much recently as he was dealing with a move and then a diesel engine swap into a CJ.
https://tinyurl.com/49jeeya6
This thread over on JeepForum has a ton of information.
Sorry can't offer a recommendation since I have a automatic. I'd just find a 5.9 flywheel since you can't use a 5.2's flywheel. I've seen them on Summit and other parts stores website.
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The LUK flywheels are on BO right now.
https://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/2000/dodge/ram_2500/clutch/flywheel.html
Summit has a nice bunch of choices. They still have the LUK in stock. It is the preferred brand for clutches for the TJ so I'd say the same should follow for the Ram.
https://www.summitracing.com/search...9l-360/engine-family/mopar-small-block-magnum
https://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/2000/dodge/ram_2500/clutch/flywheel.html
Summit has a nice bunch of choices. They still have the LUK in stock. It is the preferred brand for clutches for the TJ so I'd say the same should follow for the Ram.
https://www.summitracing.com/search...9l-360/engine-family/mopar-small-block-magnum
Yeah. I was hoping to stick with LUK. I found a Brute Power at Autozone. Not excited about it but it should do the job. It's just a hunk of metal. What could go wrong right? I bought a 12" Sachs clutch set to go along with it.