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'98 Sahara build: "Staying the Course"

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Squatch

Squatch

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So, I've rebuilt my fair share of front suspensions through the years, most being of the standard IFS variety, with a few I-beam king pin set-ups, as well. I feel fairly comfortable, for the most part, when dealing with suspensions. However, going through all the threads and posts regarding bump stops and track bar bracket clearances and whatnot has me feeling a little intimidated. Every time I think something makes total sense to me, another post pops up that gets my head to spinning. One of the things I'd like to accomplish is having as many of the potentially necessary parts on hand when I begin the project. I've not heard a lot about spring isolators (I've heard them called insulators, as well...not sure which is correct). I'm not against buying new ones, as I'm going to be knee-deep in the project, anyways. Any recommendations? Also, being that I only have the OME springs, and not a "kit", what else should I be looking for? I have the shocks already that are correct for the lift (according to many forum members). I have no issue with buying a JKS Adjustable rear TB and relocation bracket, if it's advisable. Even if it's a 50/50 chance that I'll need one, I'd just as soon get it and be done with it. But the whole bump stop thing is where I'm a little lost. Rokmen has a kit that I think would be great, though I guess I'd need two (front & rear)... https://www.rokmen.com/variable-height-bump-stop-spacers.html# However, in looking at these, they appear to be nothing more than T6061 round stock cut to 1/2", 3/4", 1.00" and 2.00" spacers. Where I work, I'll bet I could slip my buddy $75 and get him to make me up a set or two. Any ideas as to the outside diameter of these things? If I had to venture a guess, I'd say from looking at the pictures they were roughly 2.500" diameter. Thoughts?
 
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Squatch

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Why would a JKS adjustable rear TB require this: "The vehicle must be equipped with CV-type rear driveshaft w/double cardan U-joint. The kit includes required axle bracket (PN OGS160) for CV type driveshaft." As the TB controls side-to-side movement, what does that have to do with the fore and aft movement of the driveshaft? Am I missing something, here? Even the TB relocation bracket mentions the need for the CV-type driveshaft. What gives?
 

Mike_H

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Why would a JKS adjustable rear TB require this: "The vehicle must be equipped with CV-type rear driveshaft w/double cardan U-joint. The kit includes required axle bracket (PN OGS160) for CV type driveshaft." As the TB controls side-to-side movement, what does that have to do with the fore and aft movement of the driveshaft? Am I missing something, here? Even the TB relocation bracket mentions the need for the CV-type driveshaft. What gives?
So, I can't really help on the bumpstops. You kinda need to install all your parts, and then pull the springs back out. Once you have the springs out, cycle the suspension. That will tell you how tall of a bumpstop to put in Also, paying for them when you have access to a lathe is dumb. They are very expensive for what they are. I actually made mine from some 1/4" Al plate and used a hole saw on my drill press. 2" diameter. Cleaned up the burrs, opened the center hole up to 1/2" and voila! Bumpstops. I only needed a 1/2" in height, so it was pretty quick and easy. McMaster sells a 1 foot long chunk of 2" Round stock (Aluminum) for about 24 dollars. I'm going to put a little more work into them at work (Full toolroom) and make some nice ones. The ONLY ones I'd consider buying are the Currie ones. They have a clever feature in which they also retain the spring, which isn't a huge deal on factory arms. It becomes more necessary on High Flex, double johnny joint arms.

I do know why JKS is saying what they are saying re: the CV driveshaft requirement. If you look at their bracket (below for reference)
M62507018.jpg


You see its tipped at an angle. If you are using the factory driveshaft (no reason not to at 2" of lift) and install that bracket, it will move the track bar out of its proper operation plane. When you install a CV driveshaft (along with a Slip Yoke Eliminator or SYE) you have to rotate your axle about the long axle (axle shafts) to point your pinion yoke at the transfer case. Now, the angled bracket becomes necessary to put the track bar back to where it belongs.

In your circumstances, You can use a bracket like this one:
18025.jpg


This is the rear bracket that OME provides. They sell it numerous places. Notice that it will just move the trackbar up, and not forward. That is what your looking for. This is how you would use a factory track bar.

If you want to do an adjustable trackbar, then the need for the bracket is basically gone.. Don't spend the money on a bracket if you're not changing the pinion angle.
 
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Squatch

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You see its tipped at an angle. If you are using the factory driveshaft (no reason not to at 2" of lift) and install that bracket, it will move the track bar out of its proper operation plane. When you install a CV driveshaft (along with a Slip Yoke Eliminator or SYE) you have to rotate your axle about the long axle (axle shafts) to point your pinion yoke at the transfer case. Now, the angled bracket becomes necessary to put the track bar back to where it belongs.
I don't know if it's the way you worded it, or what, but I just had a moment of clarity in reading what you have said, here, @Ranger_b0b. Thank you. I see now the intent JKS has in the wording. I understood completely what the angled bracket was for, and what it did to the position of the TB, but I just could not place the relationship it had to the driveshaft. It's too complicated to explain what I thought they were saying. Suffice it to say that your explanation did the trick, and I thank you very much. I hate not understanding something mechanical. It just irks me. You, sir, rock!
 
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bobthetj03

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The way I understood it, the TB relocation bracket is required whether you're running the stock TB or an adjustable TB. Doesn't it have to do with putting the angle of the TB back in relationship along the axis of the rear axle assy?

@Ranger_b0b 's explanation of the two relocation brackets is spot on. Only thing I'd like to add, and this is only related to the SYE/DCDS mod, in addition to that angled CV TB bracket, an adjustable TB is recommended. The stock TB won't sit in the bracket correctly at the axle side mount and get puts in a bind. An adjustable TB allows you to rotate the bushing end so that it sits in the mount properly. Hope that makes sense.
 
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bobthetj03

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The bump stop extensions only need to be slightly wider than the jounce bumper cups, so whatever that diameter is. Hockey pucks are about the perfect diameter, actually, a bit wider than they need to be, but are super cheap to get. Whatever you make them out of or purchase, just have enough to bump 2" if you need it. You'll know once you pull the springs and put the axle at full bump what hits and what fits.
 
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Mike_H

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The way I understood it, the TB relocation bracket is required whether you're running the stock TB or an adjustable TB. Doesn't it have to do with putting the angle of the TB back in relationship along the axis of the rear axle assy?
Without the bracket, your roll center changes, but only slightly. I was concerned about it, and talked with Blaine...he said it don't matter at 2 inches of lift, so whatever I wanted to do was fine. I wanted to KNOW though, so I took some measurements (not super accurate, but good enough for a garage mechanic) and did the trig. The roll center will change less than 1/8 of an inch...I don't think that will be enough to worry about...and have empirical evidence to back me up. I have a good friend running an adj trackbar in the factory location...his jeep doesn't roll noticeably more than any other I've driven.

I think if you get up around 4 inches of lift...then it starts to get more noticable.
 
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Squatch

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cant wait to see the progress on your TJ @Squatch ...good things take time.Love what I read on your plans
Thanks, @Kiwi TJ. I think my little bride is starting to get nervous about all the stuff that shows up at the door these days. Just to put her mind at ease, I ordered a couple of things that are not TJ related. In fact, they're for her, so that ought to calm the waters a bit. ;)
 

Kiwi TJ

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Thanks, @Kiwi TJ. I think my little bride is starting to get nervous about all the stuff that shows up at the door these days. Just to put her mind at ease, I ordered a couple of things that are not TJ related. In fact, they're for her, so that ought to calm the waters a bit. ;)
Ahhh prevention is the key...lol
 
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Chris

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It's hard to "stay the course", especially being on this forum. You see things and think to yourself, "Yeah, I want that!". Most of the time though, you don't need it, which is important to consider. Don't fall into the same trap I did with my last build, thinking I needed this incredibly built TJ, when in reality I didn't. Unless you're doing the type of wheeling that guys like Jerry and Blaine are doing, you're just wasting your money on parts you don't need. Up here in the PNW, a small lift and some 31" or 32" tires will be more than enough. Pair that with some lockers and a winch, and you've got a TJ that can go just about anywhere.

I'm one of the guys who doesn't exactly like the idea of scraping my nice, clean frame over rocks and other huge obstacles anyways.

Anyways, it's nice to see that other members besides myself are going for the more mild approach these days. Don't get me wrong, a lifted TJ on 35" tires done right looks really awesome, but to do it right, you're going to spend a considerable amount of money. In addition to that, failing driving a TJ on 35" M/T tires isn't going to be the most ideal thing.
 
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Squatch

Squatch

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It's hard to "stay the course", especially being on this forum. You see things and think to yourself, "Yeah, I want that!". Most of the time though, you don't need it, which is important to consider. Don't fall into the same trap I did with my last build, thinking I needed this incredibly built TJ, when in reality I didn't. Unless you're doing the type of wheeling that guys like Jerry and Blaine are doing, you're just wasting your money on parts you don't need. Up here in the PNW, a small lift and some 31" or 32" tires will be more than enough. Pair that with some lockers and a winch, and you've got a TJ that can go just about anywhere.

I'm one of the guys who doesn't exactly like the idea of scraping my nice, clean frame over rocks and other huge obstacles anyways.

Anyways, it's nice to see that other members besides myself are going for the more mild approach these days. Don't get me wrong, a lifted TJ on 35" tires done right looks really awesome, but to do it right, you're going to spend a considerable amount of money. In addition to that, failing driving a TJ on 35" M/T tires isn't going to be the most ideal thing.
So what you're saying is I should return the clear turn signal lenses? o_O :) I hear ya. I do go through moments of thinking that a particular thing would be great to have (JCR Offroad Crusader Rock Sliders comes to mind), but then I stop to think of the extra investment, and the likelihood that a need to put the item to the test would ever arrive. Rokmen skids are another temptation. And that's just for the things that pop up while just looking through sites. The one that really gets me is the winch. I will be buying a winch. Period. But I have my mind set that the Warn M8000-S is the one to get. What kills me is the cost. There are options out there that are far more affordable, but sometimes that can bite you in the ass. I don't ever want there to be a time where I need a winch, and a cheaper unit fails me. Having said that, it sure seems to me that a lot of winches end up being nothing more than expensive bumper trim, as they never get used. Some could argue (myself, included) that it's more insurance than necessity, I suppose. Anyways, thanks for trying to keep me focused, @Chris. I'll be watching as you lead by example! :D
 

Starrs

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It's hard to "stay the course", especially being on this forum. You see things and think to yourself, "Yeah, I want that!". Most of the time though, you don't need it, which is important to consider. Don't fall into the same trap I did with my last build, thinking I needed this incredibly built TJ, when in reality I didn't. Unless you're doing the type of wheeling that guys like Jerry and Blaine are doing, you're just wasting your money on parts you don't need. Up here in the PNW, a small lift and some 31" or 32" tires will be more than enough. Pair that with some lockers and a winch, and you've got a TJ that can go just about anywhere.

I'm one of the guys who doesn't exactly like the idea of scraping my nice, clean frame over rocks and other huge obstacles anyways.

Anyways, it's nice to see that other members besides myself are going for the more mild approach these days. Don't get me wrong, a lifted TJ on 35" tires done right looks really awesome, but to do it right, you're going to spend a considerable amount of money. In addition to that, failing driving a TJ on 35" M/T tires isn't going to be the most ideal thing.
Your black one didn’t look overdone at all? It looked normal haha. Still confused why you sold that one lol. What was over the top about it?
 
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Squatch

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Those clear lenses are tits Squatch! Nothing wrong with treating yourself, and your jeep to a little bling now and then.
Yeah, I like the clear turn signal/side marker lights. On the other hand, I cannot stand clear tail lights. For me, tail lights have to have red lenses. The only exceptions would be the stock '63 & '64 Cadillac tail lights. They were "clear", with a red lens behind them...
 

Chris

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Your black one didn’t look overdone at all? It looked normal haha. Still confused why you sold that one lol. What was over the top about it?
I hare black... I hate it. It shows everything, it's so hard to keep clean, and I vowed that I'll never own a black vehicle again. But yeah, it was overdone for what I do. 4" Currie lift, 33" tires (closer to 34" actually), and a bunch more stuff in the works. But again... I HATE black. I'll never own a black vehicle as long as I live.
 
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Chris

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So what you're saying is I should return the clear turn signal lenses? o_O :) I hear ya. I do go through moments of thinking that a particular thing would be great to have (JCR Offroad Crusader Rock Sliders comes to mind), but then I stop to think of the extra investment, and the likelihood that a need to put the item to the test would ever arrive. Rokmen skids are another temptation. And that's just for the things that pop up while just looking through sites. The one that really gets me is the winch. I will be buying a winch. Period. But I have my mind set that the Warn M8000-S is the one to get. What kills me is the cost. There are options out there that are far more affordable, but sometimes that can bite you in the ass. I don't ever want there to be a time where I need a winch, and a cheaper unit fails me. Having said that, it sure seems to me that a lot of winches end up being nothing more than expensive bumper trim, as they never get used. Some could argue (myself, included) that it's more insurance than necessity, I suppose. Anyways, thanks for trying to keep me focused, @Chris. I'll be watching as you lead by example! :D
The wise thing to do would be to buy the Warn M8000, then get rid of the steel cable (which is worth something) and replace it with a synthetic cable which can be had cheaper aftermarket!

I have to fight the temptations and urges all the time, but I always manage to talk myself out of them fortunately!
 
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Starrs

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I hare black... I hate it. It shows everything, it's so hard to keep clean, and I vowed that I'll never own a black vehicle again. But yeah, it was overdone for what I do. 4" Currie lift, 33" tires (closer to 34" actually), and a bunch more stuff in the works. But again... I HATE black. I'll never own a black vehicle as long as I live.
I get it you hate black lol. I get into detailing my rides, so I enjoy black quite a bit. Never stays clean, but on a sunny summer day when it’s freshly washed and waxed you can’t beat it!
 
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