A Beginners Guide to Lifting Your Jeep Wrangler TJ

[DirkDPG]

I’m sure @mrblaine, who invented shock outboarding for TJs, could comment some on this topic if he’s willing.

I remember reading Blaines shock outboarding posts years ago. Good stuff. I've always had mad respect for his knowledge in this industry and tell numerous customers to check him out for brake upgrades at Black Magic.
Of course, changing shock mounting points and operating angles have much to say about ride quality and travel, but still doesn't make OME a bad or exceedingly stiff shock. Just depends on the parameters for the jeep at hand.

 

[DirkDPG]

Hey Dirk, glad to have you on the board.

If I may ask, do you have any knowledge of the valving change between the older OME Nitrocharger and newer Nitrocharger Sport shocks, and if the Metalcloak Rocksports are just a rebranded Nitrocharger Sport?

Thanks.
I remember when the Sport series shocks came out. I read the literature where they talked about "firmer" valving than the Old style Nitrochargers and I know it made me nervous!

Funny, some people years ago said the old style shocks were too soft and wanted Bilsteins for a firmer ride.

I got my hands on a set of the new Sport series shocks 6 months before they hit the streets and swapped them onto my own jeep. I had the old style on there before. I was also worried that the new shocks would be somehow "ruined." I had to know what the deal was. I figured if I didn't like the new shocks, I would put the old style back on. I should've known better than to think ARB's engineers would ruin a good thing. The new shocks were great. Been using them ever since on multiple rigs of my own. I currently have 2 jeeps here personally with our OME/JKS/DPG Hybrid suspensions on them. Switched my JKU from the HD coils to the lighter coils and the Sport Nitros' to the newer BP-51's. I like to switch up parts and see how they work on the same rigs.

The old style Nitrochargers were legendary for ride quality and the new style versions actually handle more tightly than the old one's. While the valving is technically firmer, the ride is definitely there- at least if the coils are matched correctly. I also personally prefer tighter handling and control on the street, as I drive my stuff daily.

Right around the same time the new shocks came out, I know 2 different companies were selling their variant of the OME/JKS suspension set-ups. These 2 companies were setting almost everything up with ZJ/LJ coils and the complaints about rough ride started appearing online. Rather than identifying the coils as the issue, many surmised that it "Must be those Nitro Sport shocks." Never mind that LOTS of people loved theirs and others switched coils and found the problem solved.

I should point out that I am not disputing Chris' shock conclusions for his jeep at all. He knows what worked best for him in his application.

On the MC shocks, I have heard rumors, but honestly don't have any idea as to whether they may have cloned or rebranded an OME shock or not...?

 

[Serbonze]

Thanks Dirk!

 

[Serbonze]

@Mr. Bills I thought you may find this informative.

 

[Daz7]

Dirk is totally correct, my experience with trackcar setup (using the same shocks) and then seeing the differences in day to day road use tells me that small differences in spring lb'age doesn't make that much difference to on road ride. However, move up or down 80-100lb in spring rate and it makes a very discernable difference.

And just because you do go heavier or lighter on spring rate doesn't mean ride height will be less or more. That comes down to spring construction (wire diameter, number of coils, spring length etc etc).

Some of the blanket statements made in this thread are based on experience mixing and matching off the shelf parts. That's a good thing for others as they can replicate the end result with a great deal of certainty. The problem as I see it is that others may think "well any old spring" with these shocks will be superb.

Suspension setup isn't as easy as it might appear.

 

[jjvw]

...
Some of the blanket statements made in this thread are based on experience mixing and matching off the shelf parts. That's a good thing for others as they can replicate the end result with a great deal of certainty. ...

Seeing as how the vast majority of us are using off the shelf parts, the blanket statement holds true.

I have a long list of off the shelf coil specs that I have collected over the years. Across the board in ride heights, these range between 140-250lbs, with most well under 200lbs/in. The point is that when dealing with of the shelf coils, as most are, the variance been spring rates is not very wide. When we group together coils of similar ride heights, that variance becomes even narrower.

...and then seeing the differences in day to day road use tells me that small differences in spring lb'age doesn't make that much difference to on road ride. ...

Like you say, coils don't make much difference.

 

[Daz7]

Seeing as how the vast majority of us are using off the shelf parts, the blanket statement holds true.

Not really, better to say:

I've used this spring with this shock and have acceptable ride/handling with x amount of lift front and rear and this is how my vehicle is setup.

We're dealing with huge unsprung weight differences with wheel and tire packages ranging from 30" tires/Alloys to 35" tire/steel rims. When looking at those two options alone, that'll make a massive difference to ride/handling/braking. Add to that armour/winches and what you normally carry as load and comparisons become very hard to make.

 

[DirkDPG]

Perhaps some should go pull some coils out of a big dump truck or other giant military machine, cut them to 2.5" installed in their TJ and see how the ride is compared to their range of other 2.5" jeep coils.

I mean, really?

The fact that coil rates affect ride quality is simply a provable fact. While shocks are certainly a factor to consider, you simply cannot accurately say that ride quality is 100% shocks.

But then again, this is the internet...

 

[DirkDPG]

We had one guy recently that thought he wanted a firmer ride. We installed a set of OME coils and then he decided he wanted it softer. We changed to a softer OME coil rate. (Same shocks) He wanted the same ride height as before though, so we added a small spacer to the coils to set the ride height the same as before.

While the final ride height ended up being the same as before. The ride was noticeably different. What had changed was not shock travel bias. It was coil rate. Not only that, but the advertised spring rates were only 20lbs/inch different...

I have had issues with OME's advertised spring rates over the years and still don't agree with them all, but nonetheless, the rates weren't that far apart. Ride quality was noticeably different though, even at that.

I agree with Daz7. I have seen spring rates that were advertised to be the same, but did not ride the same. Wire diameter, ramp angles, # of coils per inch, grade of steel, heat treating processes, all make a difference in ride characteristics of a coil spring.

 

[BuildBreakRepeat]

He wanted the same ride height as before though, so we added a small spacer to the coils to set the ride height the same as before.

So just a thought, this customer gave up possible uptravel for ride comfort? Replacing those spring coils with a solid spacer changes the available compressed height - and effectively creating the need for an extension in bump stops to prevent over compressing the smaller spring as compared to a longer one. The change might be minimal just a thought. Why not go with the softer spring rate and a longer spring to compensate?

 

[jjvw]

Perhaps some should go pull some coils out of a big dump truck or other giant military machine, cut them to 2.5" installed in their TJ and see how the ride is compared to their range of other 2.5" jeep coils.

I mean, really?
...

Unless they are an off the shelf option for the TJ, let's not bring giant miliary dump truck springs into a this. Especially if they need to be modified to fit.

I've played the spring game as well, including using spacers to match ride heights, so I'm not just some opinionated guy repeating things on the internet. My testing was done with OME and Currie. Ride heights were closely matched and the rates varied about 50lbs. Differences were found between rates. But in my experiences, they were very slight. The differences between shocks, on the other hand have been very dramatic. Dramatic enough to overshadow anything I found from the coils.

We haven't even brought up tire pressure. I've been out of town for 2 weeks. Today was the first time I've driven the Jeep in a while. It felt squishy and mushy. I checked the tires and found that I was about 4-5psi low on all four corners. The improvement in the ride was immediate and certainly more noticeable than my coil experiments.

I get that you didn't come here for a fight. But people need to understand that there is far more to the ride quality discussion than the off the shelf coils most of us are using. I will continue to argue that other factors are far more significant than a small change in spring rate.

 

[DirkDPG]

So just a thought, this customer gave up possible uptravel for ride comfort? Replacing those spring coils with a solid spacer changes the available compressed height - and effectively creating the need for an extension in bump stops to prevent over compressing the smaller spring as compared to a longer one. The change might be minimal just a thought. Why not go with the softer spring rate and a longer spring to compensate?

The customer gave up no uptravel. We added a 1/2" spacer to put back the 1/2" that was lost from the different coils. We didn't have to- he just wanted it to sit at the same height as before.
Keep in mind that he was running larger tires (Larger tires limit uptravel) and our kits run extended bumpstops that are larger than 1/2".
At no time were we in any danger of losing uptravel or overcompressing the coils.

Also, while OME makes coils in a variety of heights and rates that work for the TJ, they (and no one else) makes a coil in 1/2" height increments in a variety of rates from 2" to 4" of lift. That would be a LOT of springs.

We use small trim spacers all the time. Primarily to adjust stance to suit individual needs, but sometimes if a little extra height is desired in a certain spring rate. If that exact coil was available without a spacer, sure- we would use that. The ride and rate was the very reason we removed the first coils in the first place.

The opposite of this is exactly the problem I was talking about before. Running ZJ/LJ coils to achieve appx 3" of lift on a stock TJ makes for a rough ride. I only use that combo for heavier jeeps and/or guys that actually want a stiffer ride. I'd rather run the right spring rate and a .75" spacer (for example) and enjoy the same height with a much nicer ride.

 

[DirkDPG]

Unless they are an off the shelf option for the TJ, let's not bring giant miliary dump truck springs into a this. Especially if they need to be modified to fit.

I've played the spring game as well, including using spacers to match ride heights, so I'm not just some opinionated guy repeating things on the internet. My testing was done with OME and Currie. Ride heights were closely matched and the rates varied about 50lbs. Differences were found between rates. But in my experiences, they were very slight. The differences between shocks, on the other hand have been very dramatic. Dramatic enough to overshadow anything I found from the coils.

We haven't even brought up tire pressure. I've been out of town for 2 weeks. Today was the first time I've driven the Jeep in a while. It felt squishy and mushy. I checked the tires and found that I was about 4-5psi low on all four corners. The improvement in the ride was immediate and certainly more noticeable than my coil experiments.

I get that you didn't come here for a fight. But people need to understand that there is far more to the ride quality discussion than the off the shelf coils most of us are using. I will continue to argue that other factors are far more significant than a small change in spring rate.

The point made was springs have zero effect on ride. My point is that is false.
After setting up literally thousands of kits and doing more suspension installs than I can remember, (FULL-TIME over the last 20 years) I just know what I know. We'll just have to agree to disagree on that.

If you read my first post, I did bring up tire pressures...as well as load ratings and more. I've seen one thing get blamed for what was caused by something else for over 20 years now. Just had a customer last week that found the ride with his front ZJ coils to be on the stiff side. After some discussion, I found out he was running 16" tires in a load range E, with too much air pressure. He switched to some 15" tires with a C load rating that he had planned and is now very happy with the same coils and shocks that he thought were too stiff before.

 

[Viking Jeeper]

My 2005 TJ has a RC 2 1/2 inch lift put on by PO. Probably less than 10-15 K miles ago. The front passenger side shock hisses when going over bumps. After reading the first page I'm thinking of getting the Rancho RS500X shocks.

 

[Snow318]

I'm really torn on a lift kit. I currently have a 4" Skyjacker kit and 33" tires. I want to move up to 35" tires and get a better quality lift. I'm firmly against a body lift, so I believe that rules out Currie. I am also against cutting or changing the fenders, so no body armor, tube fenders or high line kit.

I believe that leaves me with Metal Cloak or Savvy. I have a Dyna Trac Pro Rock 44 for a front axle and don't like the idea of cutting the lug off the differential housing and welding on a bridge to use Savvy's control arm fitting.

I plan to install a Currie Pro Rock 60 in the rear to reduce the drive shaft angle and to strengthen up the rear axle.

Cost is really not a concern, I want to do this right. I mostly drive the Jeep on payment and off road occasionally.

I already have a slip yoke eliminator, 4:1 transfer case, and Reid Knuckle kit with locking front hubs.

 

[rasband]

The point made was springs have zero effect on ride. My point is that is false.

Any absolute is almost always false (I threw in the “almost” to not also give an absolutism), so I’d tend to agree that there’s a combination of spring/shock just based on knowing that.

As someone planning my lift I think what others are commenting on is the proportional share of perceivable impact, which heavily favors the shock.

While spring rate contributes, the shock is what ultimately handles the abrupt impact and rebound. Springs are a part, but the valving and pressure chamber design fits in the mix pretty significantly and likely more perceptively. A spring won’t often make something “harsh” to a normal driver/passenger (at least not in the limited response difference), a poor shock absolutely will.

Many members, myself included, are trying to discern, without buying “the same part” multiple times what to focus on. But I guess that’s the nature of the beast with preferences. We have to start with experiences of those we trust and move from that baseline.

 

[jjvw]

I'm really torn on a lift kit. I currently have a 4" Skyjacker kit and 33" tires. I want to move up to 35" tires and get a better quality lift. I'm firmly against a body lift, so I believe that rules out Currie. I am also against cutting or changing the fenders, so no body armor, tube fenders or high line kit.

Why are you firmly against a body lift?

I believe that leaves me with Metal Cloak or Savvy.

If you have ruled out Currie, why are Savvy and MC still in the running?

I have a Dyna Trac Pro Rock 44 for a front axle and don't like the idea of cutting the lug off the differential housing and welding on a bridge to use Savvy's control arm fitting.

The Savvy mid arm is a moot point because you are firmly against a body lift.

I plan to install a Currie Pro Rock 60 in the rear to reduce the drive shaft angle and to strengthen up the rear axle.

What rear is in there now? Why is it insufficient for your needs?

Cost is really not a concern, I want to do this right. I mostly drive the Jeep on payment and off road occasionally.

...

Skip the pro rock 60.

 

[Snow318]

Why are you firmly against a body lift?



If you have ruled out Currie, why are Savvy and MC still in the running?


The Savvy mid arm is a moot point because you are firmly against a body lift.


What rear is in there now? Why is it insufficient for your needs?


Skip the pro rock 60.

I don't like the look of a body lift. Looks cheap to me.

Currie offers up to a 4" lift, Savvy and MC offer larger lifts. My understanding is you need 5" of lift to run 35" tires on stock fenders.

Oops, I looked again at Savvy. It seems they only offer a 4" lift also. I guess they are out too.

I have a Dana44 rear axle. It's probably fine, but I figured I'd end up with a 5" suspension lift and the high pinion 60 would help reduce the drive shaft angle.

What's the issue with the Pro Rock 60?

 

[toximus]

I don't like the look of a body lift. Looks cheap to me.

If you raise the side body mounts and raise the rear crossmember you're only left with the visible mounts under the grill.

 

[toximus]

Currie offers up to a 4" lift, Savvy and MC offer larger lifts. My understanding is you need 5" of lift to run 35" tires on stock fenders.

A highline fender is an option.