Adjustable control arms

StG58

StG58

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Can we have a discussion on adjustable control arms? Johnny Joints, Rubber Bushings, those Metalcloak things, urethane bushings Locknuts, no lock nuts, aluminum, steel, cheap, expensive... There seems to be a million different flavors out there. How do they work and what are they good for? What criteria should be used to select the right one for our rigs?
 
Oh man... We really have to get @mrblaine in on this one.

I think the problem with this is you're going to get a lot of opinions and not a lot of factual information. Blaine and I had a good discussion about this the other day on the phone in regards to the Metalcloak Duroflex bushing and how there's a took of really good marketing behind it, but a lot of what they are forcing down your throat is misleading.

There's also a lot of talk about how the Johnny Joint adds some unwanted NVH for on-road driving. I personally have a complete set of Currie control arms about to be installed and I plan on doing a review as to how I like them both on road and off road. From the smarter guys I've talked to they say that the Johnny Joint is indeed just fine on road and the claims of NVH are greatly exaggerated.
 
Exactly! It would be really nice to have a civil discussion with folks like @mrblaine and @JerryBransford about how to pick a control arm. I know that there are other folks out there that have a lot of good experience that might be willing to share as well. If I had a lot of money, it would be pretty simple. Buy a bunch of sets of control arms and go to town testing them. I don't have that kind of money though. The other problem comes from all of the different conditions we run our rigs in. AND how we run them. I think we can get enough input, and this forum is calm and rational enough that maybe, just maybe some good can come out of this discussion. Then we can talk about Track Bars! Whoo Hoo!
 
I've run hems ( do just fine), RK pro crawler joints, and I just order MC 1 1/4" joints for my upper 3rd link. I've yet to receive them.

In Kansas City the MC stuff has taken over by storm. But it's all fresh jk owners with $$$
 
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Those were some interesting pictures, and some interesting comments. Maybe I do have to pay closer attention to what the JK guys are doing...
 
I personally believe the comparison of some of these joints / bushings would take a real expert to narrow it down to which one really performs the best.

Some things to take into consideration when going with any control arm would be how easy it is to rebuild the joints and find parts for them. In addition to that, I think it's also going to depend on what you want to do with the rig and how much you're looking to get out of it.

For instance, on my 2.5" lift there really isn't a need for aftermarket control arms at that height.

A lot of this will be opinion as well. You'll find so many guys who swear by the Metalcloak Duroflex, and you'll find some guys who swear by the Currie Johnny Joint. Unless someone has ran both bushings back to back in the exact same application and put them both through the same tests, they can't really make an informed decision.

That is the problem with a lot of these online discussions. You get someone in there who has never before even tried a Johnny Joint and simply trashes them because they prefer the Duroflex joint.

I'm not sure if there's anyone out there who has run numerous different types of joints back-to-back and tested them extensively, but if there is someone out there it would be nice to hear from them.
 
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Before we lose SOME people who may not know what "parts is parts" we're talking about

alignment01.jpg
 
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Chris said:
I personally believe the comparison of some of these joints / bushings would take a real expert to narrow it down to which one really performs the best.
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Yes and no, sorta, maybe. There are things that logic dictates which you can apply to any product if you view things a bit objectively but that doesn't always work which I will illustrate with your next sentence.

Some things to take into consideration when going with any control arm would be how easy it is to rebuild the joints and find parts for them.
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There are a lot of things to know about a rod end (generic for the thingy on the end of a control arm that lets you attach it to the axle and chassis) One of them in the case of rebuildables is how well the cartridge bits or the stuff that fits into the barrel can handle side loads like when you slip off of a rock with your tire and land with the weight of the rig pushing sideways on the arm.

The Currie JJ has urethane races to provide a bearing surface for the misalignment ball and they are a very tight fit into the barrel and they get compressed very highly when you push the washer down to install the snap ring. The outer surface of the urethane gets no grease so when you load the joint sideways, the misalignment ball further expands the urethane so it grips the inner wall of the barrel and really slows down how much load is placed on the snap ring and groove. It works so well that I've seen single joints used to locate a rear axle at the end of a wishbone with the joint mounted horizontally.

Now to the ease in rebuilding part and why that may not be the best criteria. Daystar was the first company to knock off the JJ. Their claim to fame was how easy it was to push in the races by hand and how you didn't even need a vise to do it. While that sounds great on the surface, they defeated one of the key features of the joint to make it easier to rebuild. They also defeated the portion that makes the JJ solid, firm, and yet still has isolation.

So, to your first criteria, which one is best? The one that is easy to rebuild or the one that is a bit harder to rebuild?

To add some stuff to the mix that may invoke a bit of reflection, I just removed a set of JJ's from my rig that have been on there for at least 10 years, mostly on 40" tires, mostly in JV, and they were as tight as the day I installed them and they have been through hundreds of trails in JV without ever being rebuilt. The reflection part is perspective as in they have been in use longer than some of the companies have been around that are now selling the latest and greatest. ;)
 
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I really wish there was a way to get a cheap (or free) set of Metalcloak control arms as well as numerous other brands so that I could back-to-back test them over the period of a year or so and do a thorough review of all of the different rod ends including the Duroflex, Johnny Joint, and any others that exist.

Like I said in my original post, I think that it's hard to trust 90% of these guys on the Internet because they're simply saying that ______ brand of rod ends suck, but they have nothing to back that up other than the fact that they heard it from someone else.
 
I think a hybrid using RK arms with MC joints is where it's at. A friend of mine split his MC arm. Wasn't impressed by the wall thickness of the arm.
 
mouth said:
I think a hybrid using RK arms with MC joints is where it's at. A friend of mine split his MC arm. Wasn't impressed by the wall thickness of the arm.
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What was he doing that caused his arm to split?
 
Chris said:
What was he doing that caused his arm to split?
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There's no official story but it ended up in a ditch. It did break the Dana 30 I half. Maybe I'm not giving them ehough credit, I was running RK solid arms at that time so I was happy with my choise
 
mouth said:
I think a hybrid using RK arms with MC joints is where it's at. A friend of mine split his MC arm. Wasn't impressed by the wall thickness of the arm.
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There is no advantage to having solid control arms when other materials don't have any problems. I use 1.75" .188 wall DOM quite often for arms and have not had a single failure and I've done that on many rigs.

I suspect if you can make the above statement, then you didn't see the pictures of the joints in that thread?
 
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mrblaine said:
There is no advantage to having solid control arms when other materials don't have any problems. I use 1.75" .188 wall DOM quite often for arms and have not had a single failure and I've done that on many rigs.

I suspect if you can make the above statement, then you didn't see the pictures of the joints in that thread?
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It only took me to the Main page
 
StG58 said:
Exactly! It would be really nice to have a civil discussion with folks like @mrblaine and @JerryBransford about how to pick a control arm.
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I am but a babe in the woods compared to Blaine, especially where control arms are concerned. Blaine is the guy to go to for sage educated advice on them. I know just enough to say my first aftermarket control arms were from Tera and they were total crap... they were so inflexible that they tore control arm mounts off from where they were welded to the axle... others that followed weren't much better....but that my present Currie Johnny Joint control arms have been and continue to be trouble-free.
 
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I just like rock crawlers " you break it we replace it". I run 2" OD x.250 wall Dom in my 3 link
 
I'm honest enough to admit that I'm not in tune enough with my Jeep, nor do I use it like some hard core off road guys that I'll ever notice the difference. There are some great posts on other forums that debate the pros and cons of Currie vs Metalcloak. I came away from reading those discussions that based on my use it really wouldn't matter.

I ended up buying Metalcloak because I got a great deal on the total package (adjustable arms, front trackbar, and installation) that I just couldn't pass up. There was no noticiable difference in driving after they were installed. I drove my father's Jeep that uses Johnny joints about a month later, and again I could not tell a difference.

These are great points Chris:
Chris said:
I personally believe the comparison of some of these joints / bushings would take a real expert to narrow it down to which one really performs the best.

In addition to that, I think it's also going to depend on what you want to do with the rig and how much you're looking to get out of it.

A lot of this will be opinion as well. You'll find so many guys who swear by the Metalcloak Duroflex, and you'll find some guys who swear by the Currie Johnny Joint. Unless someone has ran both bushings back to back in the exact same application and put them both through the same tests, they can't really make an informed decision.
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That is the problem with a lot of these online discussions. You get someone in there who has never before even tried a XXXX joint and simply trashes them because they prefer the XXXXX joint.
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I agree with this as well, but you can insert any brand joint.
 
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Serbonze said:
I'm honest enough to admit that I'm not in tune enough with my Jeep, nor do I use it like some hard core off road guys that I'll ever notice the difference. There are some great posts on other forums that debate the pros and cons of Currie vs Metalcloak. I came away from reading those discussions that based on my use it really wouldn't matter.
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Precisely. What I do believe it comes down to though is that both Metalcloak and Currie are pretty much the top choices (for the majority of us at least) for good joints.

Serbonze said:
I ended up buying Metalcloak because I got a great deal on the total package (adjustable arms, front trackbar, and installation) that I just couldn't pass up. There was no noticiable difference in driving after they were installed. I drove my father's Jeep that uses Johnny joints about a month later, and again I could not tell a difference.
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Yep, this is why I bought Currie, well also the fact that it would complement my other Currie components I had.

This is why I think it's going to be impossible for anyone to ever have a good discussion about control arms. Most people are just repeating things they heard online without any real world tests. One person says I had a bad experience with Metalcloak or Currie, and then someone else repeats it (having never even tried one of their joints) and before you know it you've got a bunch of assholes repeating things without ever having tried it. I guess that's the way the Internet works.

I also firmly believe that the overwhelming majority of us would never be able to tell the difference between joints (just like you didn't notice a difference bedroom yours and the Johnny Joints). I'm sure if I spent weeks driving each rig back-to-back I might be able to pick up the slightest little differences, but even then it would take a great attention to detail.

I think we can agree that there's a lot of happy people running the Duroflex joint and there's a lot of happy people running the Johnny Joint. I'm sure there's also a lot of people running stock style polyurethane joints too. It all boils down to what your intended use is.
 
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