Great deals on TJ parts on Amazon!

Looking for parts for your Jeep Wrangler TJ? Checkout the selection of TJ parts Amazon has to offer, many with 2-day Prime shipping!

Click the image below to browse TJ parts on Amazon.

Jeep Wrangler TJ Parts on Amazon

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.

Adventures in outsmarting oneself, or why being cute just because you can, is not a good thing.

Zorba

"The Veiled Male"
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2020
Messages
7,493
Location
Merritt Island, Fl
@mrblaine - my respect for you has gone up at least 2 orders of magnitude - and it was going up before this thread. {BOW HERE} Because you're just as much an "asshole" to YOURSELF as anybody else! But don't beat yourself up over it too much, as someone much wiser than myself would tell me: "I *never* lose. I either win, or I LEARN." Seems to me you both won and learned. Not too many folks could have walked their way through that clusterfuck, but you did it the time proven way: One step at a time. Congratulations are in order, methinks.

I've been in similar situations - albeit on a MUCH more minor scale - many times. I call it "Being pushed up the stack" - which is computer geek speak. As long as you don't have a "stack crash" or "stack overflow", you're golden!

How long did it take you to wish you'd never even THOUGHT about doing this? I can only understand about 1/3rd of your details, but its enough that I "get it"!
 

Blackjack

Evil Winch Doctor
Supporting Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2018
Messages
2,007
Location
Kenai
The hardcore hubs are the only item I will personally allow to penetrate my hypocrisy fence I live inside of. I don't know who they copied but they did a very good job. However, like everything else they do, they require some fiddling to get set up right.
They are a clone of the original Spicer locking hub.
 
  • Like
Reactions: psrivats
OP
mrblaine

mrblaine

Crew Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2015
Messages
22,397
Location
Quail Valley, CA
How long did it take you to wish you'd never even THOUGHT about doing this? I can only understand about 1/3rd of your details, but its enough that I "get it"!
That was never an option. I have at least two other brake kit options I could walk over and grab off the shelf. I even have machined rotors to use with the hub kits along with everything else to make it all work. But, they would be smaller brakes and they would not be something that few others will do. This build isn't about the wisdom of following good advice.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zorba

Zorba

"The Veiled Male"
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2020
Messages
7,493
Location
Merritt Island, Fl
That was never an option...
Yea - I get that. But for me at least, there are PLENTY of times when I wish I'd beat myself behind the ear with a hammer rather than have ever contemplated "this project". After I go retrieve the flying tools and cry in my beer - then I get on with it. Come to think of it, probably more of my projects are like this than not! You're experienced enough to skip the crying in beer stage... ;)
 

Gollywomper

TJ Addict
Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2019
Messages
2,727
Location
Corning CA
They changed the bearing hub to have a thicker flange in place of the spacer and flange to move the rotor back. Warn did it that was to use the same bearing hub on the rear for the full float kit.

We've done a lot of the Yukon small hub stuff and I don't see any differences that matter.
This reminds me I need to order a couple extra hubs…..
 

NskLJ

TJ Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 19, 2021
Messages
452
Location
Long Beach
We attempted to mate up a Customer Supplied Yukon 5.5" hub kit to our Super 16 BBK and it was a no go. Yukon deviated from Warn by deleting the rotor hat spacer that moved the rotor back towards the knuckle by just increasing the flange thickness by 3/16" more than how Warn did it. Great, good idea but that screws up putting it all together with that brake kit because there isn't enough room between the rotor and mounting bosses on the knuckle that the saddle bolts to. That is the start of me being dumb.

I use that knowledge to my "advantage" since I have the Warn original so no big deal, thinner flange and I want bigger brakes on the TJ-6. I mock it all up on the test fixture, good to go. I send out the hubs and rotors, clock the pattern over and have it drilled and tapped for 1/2-20 at the flange and 1/2" clearance holes in the rotor hat. That lets me use any common length screw in stud instead of the limited length press in versions in case I need longer studs because why not, I'm good at this, right? Turns looking somewhat like this after a fair bit of effort to trim down the bolt bosses on the saddle to move it inward.

View attachment 302741
Looks good, I'm all happy and proud of myself for just how cute I can get with shit that others don't do. That pic has two things that are the start of me kicking my own ass. Below shows where the problems start.

View attachment 302742
First problem is the rotor was within a business card thickness of rubbing on the grease boot. The second problem laying on the ground didn't show up until much later. First problem, alright I'm a smart guy, I'll just make a spacer out of 1/8" aluminum and move the spindle out, that will move the rotor out, I'll use some of my fancy special spacers between the caliper saddle and knuckle, piece of cake, so I do and now I've got rid of the grease boot problem.

I sneak a few minutes here and there, some contemplation and come up with a semi-permanent method to mount the lower shock mounts and still be able to drive it to paint, then adjust afterwards when it is all put together. I just extended the lower inner flange, drilled it, bolted it up to the lower control arm bolt and tack welded the corners. (at my assumed ride height)


View attachment 302744

I'm pretty happy about all this until I cycle the steering lock to lock and discover that the caliper body just touches the shock mount at full lock. Well, crap, that's not gonna work since the caliper moves inward as the pads wear. Now I'm starting to realize that being cute is not all it is cracked up to be.

I spend some hours doing parts research and I find that Wilwood makes a rotor ring for a two piece rotor that is the exact size of the one I'm using. Great, lots of dimension checking to make sure the mounting bolts for the hat won't hit my caliper saddle and I order a pair in and they're cheap, sub 70 each delivered.

All good until I try to find a shallower rotor hat to move the rotor away from the shock mount. They have one blank option, they actually have two hats that will work but only one can be bought as a blank. It is painful at 155 bucks each. I get two and send them out to get machined to fit, open up the center bore and drill the 5.5" bolt circle of 1/2" clearance holes. That adds another 50 bucks to each hat cost.

Looks something like this. Anyone see the problem yet?

View attachment 302748

I had been using low head screw in wheel studs to keep the head height down to stop the knuckle bolts that hold the spindle on from hitting the heads of the wheel studs.

View attachment 302749

The head diameter means they won't fit next to the inner wall of the new rotor hat. I order up some 1/2-20 socket head cap screws and finally get the new rotor mounted up to the bearing hub. I install it onto the knuckle so we can start figuring out what it is going to take to make the caliper saddle center up.

Hub goes on, turns just fine, everything is wonderful except the caliper saddle needs a spacer of 1/8" to be centered. Aha! Remember the 1/8" aluminum spacer I made, just remove that from behind the spindle and the saddle will be nicely centered so back apart it comes, we bolt it all up without the spacer and it's all perfect, well except for the part where the rotor won't turn because my fancy ARP knuckle bolts are now exactly 1/8" too long and hit the heads of the socket cap screws that hold the rotor to the flange. Yep, I'm getting my ass kicked but I'm still standing and not down for the count. We pull the knuckle bolts one at a time, cut them down, reinstall and it is good. Looks about like this.

View attachment 302750

View attachment 302751

We got it done but it sure doesn't always pay to be cute and do shit just because you can.
I have found That last 10% to make it right is always 90% of the work and most people won’t do what it takes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: psrivats

Tony Ownbey

"T"
Supporting Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2017
Messages
26
Location
Eugene, OR, United States
That was a great post Mr. Blaine. It made me think some of my repair efforts aren't as as unusual as I thought, although I can complicate an oil change. Hal on Malcolm in the Middle describes me perfectly. Imagine my wife shaking her head in agreement, but I do eventually get the jobs done. I enjoy all your posts and appreciate the wisdom you pass along.
 

Jerry Bransford

TJ Guru Moderator
Staff Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2015
Messages
23,738
Location
Fleming Island Florida
The underlying fact that caused this problem is how Yukon totally fucked up the Warn hub line they bought from Warn. If they had just left well enough alone the world would be a better place. Better yet Warn should have kept their hub line in house.
 
OP
mrblaine

mrblaine

Crew Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2015
Messages
22,397
Location
Quail Valley, CA
The underlying fact that caused this problem is how Yukon totally fucked up the Warn hub line they bought from Warn. If they had just left well enough alone the world would be a better place. Better yet Warn should have kept their hub line in house.
Yes and no. While they are at times full and complete fuck ups, this really isn't one of those times. They don't offer the rear full float kit so there is no need to laser cut the spacer and include it to move the rotor back. That and it costs less in machine time since they are leaving more material on the flange than Warn did. I could also make a strong case that having more flange thickness to press the studs into creates a greater resistance to spinning and gives me more peace of mind when I thread them.
 
OP
mrblaine

mrblaine

Crew Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2015
Messages
22,397
Location
Quail Valley, CA
That was a great post Mr. Blaine. It made me think some of my repair efforts aren't as as unusual as I thought, although I can complicate an oil change. Hal on Malcolm in the Middle describes me perfectly. Imagine my wife shaking her head in agreement, but I do eventually get the jobs done. I enjoy all your posts and appreciate the wisdom you pass along.
None of us are immune to being fuck ups. Some of us just take it to much more complex levels.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zorba

LONGJP2

TJ Addict
Joined
Aug 11, 2019
Messages
2,328
Location
Illinois
This build isn't about the wisdom of following good advice.
I kept thinking what a bitch it's going to be just to change the brakes. :)

I often find myself cussing the engineers that designed the machines I have to repair and maintain.
 
OP
mrblaine

mrblaine

Crew Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2015
Messages
22,397
Location
Quail Valley, CA
I kept thinking what a bitch it's going to be just to change the brakes. :)

I often find myself cussing the engineers that designed the machines I have to repair and maintain.
The rotor swaps easier than the versions with the press in studs since they can be changed with normal hand tools.