AEV Highline Kit Installation Guide

[Jesse Marquez]

That's what I figured as well. Someone had suggested 3D printing, but I know how long that takes, and I'd also mentioned that it would take a commercial size 3D printer.

So the next question is (and maybe you don't know, but hopefully someone does), who would I talk to about this sort of thing?

If I have the flares and I want to have a mold created for them so we could reproduce them, what do I even Google for that?

I've never sourced manufacturing like this before in my life, so I'm unsure where to start.

Again, this may all be a pipe dream, but I'd at least like to get a general idea of what it might cost. If I could do that, I could shop the idea around and see if there was enough interest from people to justify recreating them.

I have a couple engineering buddies in the mesa area, I'll ask and see if they know anyone local that does injection molding.

 

[Chris]

I have a couple engineering buddies in the mesa area, I'll ask and see if they know anyone local that does injection molding.

That would be great. We're moving to Florence (not too far from Mesa) this month, so if I needed to have someone scan them or take a look at them in person, this would definitely be possible.

 

[Jesse Marquez]

That would be great. We're moving to Florence (not too far from Mesa) this month, so if I needed to have someone scan them or take a look at them in person, this would definitely be possible.

I have a 3D scanner at work I could use as to scan and model it. If you need someone too.

 

[Mike_H]

What about 3D printing? Is that even feasible whatsoever?

What I need to get is some sort of ballpark for how much it's going to cost to have X sets of them made. If I knew that number, I could propose the idea of a "group buy" to see how many people would actually be interested. It would be crowd sourcing it of course, but from what I gather on the AEV Forum and everywhere else, it seems there's enough people that hunt for these flares, that reproducing them may or may not be possible.

I'm also not sure what kind of manufacturer I'd have to talk to. I've heard these are polyurethane flares, but I'm not sure how that compares to let's say ABS injection molding, etc.

3d Printing...To get a printer big enough to do a set of flares on the TJ, it would be not something that you are going to buy for yourself. So, you're looking at a two or more piece design, that would need to be joined together. there are numerous ways to do it, but I don't think any of them will look good. 3D printing is also VERY slow...you'll probably have 24+ hours into printing one flare.

Urethane is probably the way to go, but you'll have to contact a model shop to make a mold, and they will need a PERFECT set to make master. The nice thing about urethane is that its a Thermoset plastic instead of a thermoform. Urethane specifically can start as a liquid, so once you have the mold, you just pour it in and let it harden. You might be able to cost effectively do that. I'm guessing here, but I bet the reverse engineering and mold build would be around 25K to have done. Remember, you need FOUR molds...not just one. Each part is specific, front to rear, right to left. If you got 25 "shots," you'd have to charge 1000 bucks each just to cover your engineering costs, then tack material on top of that.

You start talking about ABS, nylon, or other type Thermoplastic and you're talking injection molding. GREAT for large part runs (10,000 is a low production quantity). It can produce a part very inexpensively. However, the molds are VERY expensive. So, your up front tooling is going to be ridiculous. Probably $150,000 or more (they are not real simple parts to make).

If you really want to chase this down, Composites are probably a viable option. Fiberglass is simple, but heavy. Carbon fiber would lay up the same way, would be lighter, but its also stiff and inflexible They make pre-impregnated CF (and FG for that matter) that uses a mold. You basically lay the material in the mold and the mold goes into the press. The resin is heat activated and the press ensures all the air gets pushed out.

If you want to experiment a little bit, grab a heat gun and a sheet of acrylic (plexiglas) from the hardware store. Give yourself a straight line, heat the material along the line, gently, with the heat gun. After a little bit, fold the plastic. You can make a pretty nice plexi box that way.

 

[Starrs]

That's what I figured as well. Someone had suggested 3D printing, but I know how long that takes, and I'd also mentioned that it would take a commercial size 3D printer.

So the next question is (and maybe you don't know, but hopefully someone does), who would I talk to about this sort of thing?

If I have the flares and I want to have a mold created for them so we could reproduce them, what do I even Google for that?

I've never sourced manufacturing like this before in my life, so I'm unsure where to start.

Again, this may all be a pipe dream, but I'd at least like to get a general idea of what it might cost. If I could do that, I could shop the idea around and see if there was enough interest from people to justify recreating them.

Honestly I would reach out to the people who did it. They will be able to tell you correctly and quicker than anybody on here. They didn’t see the reward in doing it based on how many they would have sold so they quit production. They might be able to give you some insight.

 

[Chris]

3d Printing...To get a printer big enough to do a set of flares on the TJ, it would be not something that you are going to buy for yourself. So, you're looking at a two or more piece design, that would need to be joined together. there are numerous ways to do it, but I don't think any of them will look good. 3D printing is also VERY slow...you'll probably have 24+ hours into printing one flare.

Urethane is probably the way to go, but you'll have to contact a model shop to make a mold, and they will need a PERFECT set to make master. The nice thing about urethane is that its a Thermoset plastic instead of a thermoform. Urethane specifically can start as a liquid, so once you have the mold, you just pour it in and let it harden. You might be able to cost effectively do that. I'm guessing here, but I bet the reverse engineering and mold build would be around 25K to have done. Remember, you need FOUR molds...not just one. Each part is specific, front to rear, right to left. If you got 25 "shots," you'd have to charge 1000 bucks each just to cover your engineering costs, then tack material on top of that.

You start talking about ABS, nylon, or other type Thermoplastic and you're talking injection molding. GREAT for large part runs (10,000 is a low production quantity). It can produce a part very inexpensively. However, the molds are VERY expensive. So, your up front tooling is going to be ridiculous. Probably $150,000 or more (they are not real simple parts to make).

If you really want to chase this down, Composites are probably a viable option. Fiberglass is simple, but heavy. Carbon fiber would lay up the same way, would be lighter, but its also stiff.

If you want to experiment a little bit, grab a heat gun and a sheet of acrylic (plexiglas) from the hardware store. Give yourself a straight line, heat the material along the line, gently, with the heat gun. After a little bit, fold the plastic. You can make a pretty nice plexi box that way.

So $4000 a set basically, and that's not even covering costs.

I guess that's some rain on the parade right there. I suspect it might be viable that people would buy them if they were $2000 a set (if you know how nutty some of these AEV people are, that number isn't that shocking), but $4000 would of course be a hard pill to swallow.

He's giving me a spare set of flares, one of which is damaged, so that might be a good piece to experiment on like you suggested.

 

[Chris]

Honestly I would reach out to the people who did it. They will be able to tell you correctly and quicker than anybody on here. They didn’t see the reward in doing it based on how many they would have sold so they quit production. They might be able to give you some insight.

If I remember correctly, AEV said the molds no longer exist and all the tooling is long gone, which is unfortunate.

Yes, it may be worth reaching out to them, I agree. I suppose it doesn't hurt to ask.

Like I said, I may be chasing a pipe dream here, but I feel like I need to at least find out.

 

[Mike_H]

So $4000 a set basically, and that's not even covering costs.

I guess that's some rain on the parade right there. I suspect it might be viable that people would buy them if they were $2000 a set (if you know how nutty some of these AEV people are, that number isn't that shocking), but $4000 would of course be a hard pill to swallow.

He's giving me a spare set of flares, one of which is damaged, so that might be a good piece to experiment on like you suggested.

It might be closer to a 1000 a set. I figured the 25K number to build the molds for all four. Here is the deal with that style molding...the molds wear out and need to be replaced. So, you'll have ongoing tooling costs as well. Urathane isn't exactly cheap either. I was making some prototypes at work with it and I think it was about 65 bucks for a quart of the stuff. A flare is going to need a LOT more than a quart.

I bet by the time all is said an done, 2,000 would be pretty close to a final cost...but I wouldn't expect to make much profit at that price.

 

[Chris]

It might be closer to a 1000 a set. I figured the 25K number to build the molds for all four. Here is the deal with that style molding...the molds wear out and need to be replaced. So, you'll have ongoing tooling costs as well. Urathane isn't exactly cheap either. I was making some prototypes at work with it and I think it was about 65 bucks for a quart of the stuff. A flare is going to need a LOT more than a quart.

I bet by the time all is said an done, 2,000 would be pretty close to a final cost...but I wouldn't expect to make much profit at that price.

Obviously I'd have to put something out there to see what people would be willing to pay, as I don't know how crazy some of these guys are. I wouldn't want to lose money either, and I wouldn't want to do it all for free.

I suspect I'd have to somehow crowd source it to raise the 25k, then hope that people would be willing to pay let's say $2500 a set.

And then there is the more important question of how many people would buy them? It's a niche of a niche (TJs and AEVs), so the market may not even be there. But, I feel like if I could get some pretty accurate numbers, I could at least present the idea and see if it gains momentum or falls flat on its face.

I'm suspecting it might be the latter (again, the niche of a niche thing), but you never know. There's vultures that just hunt for this AEV stuff like madmen, and pay unscrupulous amounts of money for some of it, especially if it's in mint condition.

 

[Mike_H]

Obviously I'd have to put something out there to see what people would be willing to pay, as I don't know how crazy some of these guys are. I wouldn't want to lose money either, and I wouldn't want to do it all for free.

I suspect I'd have to somehow crowd source it to raise the 25k, then hope that people would be willing to pay let's say $2500 a set.

And then there is the more important question of how many people would buy them? It's a niche of a niche (TJs and AEVs), so the market may not even be there. But, I feel like if I could get some pretty accurate numbers, I could at least present the idea and see if it gains momentum or falls flat on its face.

I'm suspecting it might be the latter (again, the niche of a niche thing), but you never know. There's vultures that just hunt for this AEV stuff like madmen, and pay unscrupulous amounts of money for some of it, especially if it's in mint condition.

Yeah, and those same vultures are probably not going to be in your demographic of buyers. They want original, AEV only. Your reproductions won't be good enough for them. You could make them perfect replicas, but because AEV didn't make them, off the original tooling, they are not interested.

 

[zebra12]

Ever since I did the CJ Grille Kit for the TJ I've had in the back of my mind that I would make a highline kit - I've got molds for TJ inner fenders, flat fenders, CJ fenders and related parts and those would provide a good starting point for making highline versions.

Really looking forward to seeing this.

 

[Starrs]

Yeah, and those same vultures are probably not going to be in your demographic of buyers. They want original, AEV only. Your reproductions won't be good enough for them. You could make them perfect replicas, but because AEV didn't make them, off the original tooling, they are not interested.

And this is why it would not work haha. Pipe dream for sure, but man all the people that say they will buy a set....they won’t.

 

[someguysjeep]

ABS plastic...........30$ a fender and you can bend them all day and they won't break.

 

[jscherb]

ABS plastic...........30$ a fender and you can bend them all day and they won't break.

ABS isn't the best choice for something that may be subject to bending. The plastic in the photo is ABS, it's been bent and you can see the stress area has turned white and the bend is not relaxing back to original shape. While it won't break until repeated flexing back and forth at the same stress area, a good scrape against a tree is likely to bend an ABS fender such that the bend will not go back to the original shape and white stress marks will be left in the fender.

 

[someguysjeep]

that's the point beat up the cheap plastic and not your metal.
a hit that folds that would have dented you anyway, no?
cheap was my point...............if they cost as much as a new cooler you can buy some every few years if you beat the snot of of them.

 

[jscherb]

that's the point beat up the cheap plastic and not your metal.
a hit that folds that would have dented you anyway, no?
cheap was my point...............if they cost as much as a new cooler you can buy some every few years if you beat the snot of of them.

Per unit, ABS is cheap to mold, but due to the shape and detail of a typical TJ flare, the cost of the tooling is significant. Unless a sufficient quantity can be sold to amortize the tooling cost across a large quantity, ABS flares in small quantities won't be $30 each, they could be several times that or more once the tooling is accounted for.

 

[someguysjeep]

i don't have the background to continue this path over production costs. i gather from your many posts and custom parts you have much more exp than i do.
so what we come down to is it's likely gonna cost to much to be lucrative with such a small range of customer interest.


my idea of cheap plastic is like nascar sheet metal, it looks good but it's gonna get tore up, if you hit something. a flexible material could prevent this in some cases. and for a trail rig not a DD.

if this is for your DD it better be all steel. aluminum is already a significant reduction in structural strength and plastic would be just blatantly irresponsible.

i thought about trying to mold and make a vacuum box, see if i could heat up and suck down the materials to form something not to fugly. all the fender edges have a slight radius from forming, that might lend to this procedure........ but this was just a fender skin to be reinforced with some aluminum sheeting.

wish yall luck sorting this. i'd be interested in a product like this.

 

[red95jeep]

Following.....interested in a new set of flares.

 

[jjvw]

I wonder how well the AEV flare would work on the DIY highline.

 

[Chris]

I wonder how well the AEV flare would work on the DIY highline.

I had that thought as well.