Aftermarket Driveshafts?

RINC

E pluribus unum = Out of many, one
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I twisted/bent my front shaft last weekend. What are the aftermarket guys doing that I cannot do locally?

Before I began truck driving, I was building shafts for trucks and Ag equipment. I know people local to me to replace mine.

What is the secret to off road shafts?
 
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A big second for Tom Woods. They will walk you through how to measure properly, build one for you, then ship it out quickly. If available, go with non-greasable joints. Unless of course you don't mind crawling under the Jeep every 3K to 5K miles to grease them!
 
Tom Wood. There are a couple others that are reputable too. Adam's Driveshaft, High Angle Driveline.

You could indeed build one at home. Perhaps one thing to consider is to buy the parts from a vendor like the above, and then weld it up and balance it locally. Most TJ shafts are built with steel, but I imagine aluminum is also a possibility.

1310 vs 1330 vs 1350 double cardan is always a debate. I personally went with 1350. If you have proper gearing in your differentials and aren't bouncing, 1310 is usually fine. 1310 also has less rotating mass in the double cardan intermediate joint, so it imparts less magnitude of torsional vibration at high angles and high speeds.

Greasable is generally okay, especially if it's the type that has the zerk in a bearing cap. Non-greasable is also fine if you think you might forget to grease it, and don't plan on getting bogged in mud.

There is very little information out there regarding the use of true CV joints like a Rzeppa joint, so stick with a double cardan unless you're willing to experiment.
 
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Another Vote for Tom Woods. Just call them up, let them know what you need. They've done enough Jeeps that if you describe your mods, they can predict the length you need (but measuring is still preferred). They build and turn around in only a couple days.
 
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A big second for Tom Woods. They will walk you through how to measure properly, build one for you, then ship it out quickly. If available, go with non-greasable joints. Unless of course you don't mind crawling under the Jeep every 3K to 5K miles to grease them!

I used to make shafts but for different applications. Just asking what the secret to the Tom Woods shafts is.
 
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I used to make shafts but for different applications. Just asking what the secret to the Tom Woods shafts is.

Material, welding, and year's worth of knowledge and experience. Let's also not forget good people that care about what they do!
 
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In another life, I was a blacksmith. Although I made mostly black iron and steel things (think drawer handles, pot hooks, decorative iornwork) I also know how to make knives. I've made plenty using good steel and properly quenching. I've taken the time to properly finish them, and made some pretty nice knives. My dad still carries one I gave him a decade ago.

You know what I carry? A Buck.

Why, when I know how to make my own? Well, time, for one. It would take me a few weeks to make myself a good knife in my free time, but I can go to wal-mart (or amazon) and have a Buck 110 right now. Also, economies of scale. My time and materials would make a knife I made hundreds of dollars. A Buck 110 is 50 bucks.

Also, I can make a nice fixed blade knife. I never got into the how of making a folder. And for my life, a folder is more practical. So it makes sense to get a good folder from a reputable brand rather than compromise with making a great knife myself, but that isn't perfect for my application.

Finally, if I break a Buck knife and its not the fault of improper use, they replace that shit. Much like when my driveshaft threw a weight, and when I sent a picture to Shawn, he looked at the picture, said it was obvious from the pic that it hadn't been in rocks, sent me a shipping label and fixed it on his dime. From the time I pulled the shaft to the time I put it back in, fixed, was less than a week too. Good people backing good products is worth a lot.

So I know this is all an analogy, comparing knives to driveshafts, but it's relevant to my life and skillset, like driveshafts are to yours. I'm hoping you can easily draw the parallels I was trying to make.🙂
 
Hey everyone. Wow, I'm very honored that so many people speak so well of us, thank you.

To answer the question of what can aftermarket do that the local place can't: Well it depends on which aftermarket company you are talking about and who you have local. There are many local shops that do an excellent job and take pride in what they do. There are also online-type drive shaft companies who frankly do an awful job. Local depends on where you are, if you live in Ogden Utah we're the local shop! Not all local shops are good at getting their name out there nationally. Or maybe they don't even want to have that business model in the first place. Likewise, not all companies that are good at getting their name out there nationally are good. The point I'm trying to make is that reputation is the thing I'd focus on. If a local shop has a bunch of google reviews and they are close to 5 star rated they probably do a good job and deserve your business. The only thing I'd recommend is that if you have a local shop that you contact them first and get some pricing and turn around times. I hear from customers frequently that their local shop told them it would be $600 and 3 weeks for their local shop to build a shaft that we can do for $400 in 1-2 days.

My personal view is that I wish there were more good local shops scattered across the country. As a consumer myself I hate that I have to order everything online nowadays and wish I could go to a local specialist store and get the things I need. Plus, there's a lot of things that we or companies like us don't do and I hope that the local shops stick around so they can help local customers with those things. Anytime I can help a smaller shop somewhere with some parts or some knowledge I do. We're not trying to take all the business away from the smaller more regional shops, we're just here to provide a good option for those of you who don't have a good local place. Anyways, good is good, that could mean the 1-man operation down the street or it could mean someone like us or Adams.

That being said, places like us or Adams are 4WD and Jeep specialists so we probably have better knowledge, parts, and processes in place for building 4WD and Jeep drive shafts than most regional shops. If you want to learn more about what we might be doing differently you can read about it here https://4xshaft.com/pages/about-us. You're going to find a similar story and similar products if you look into or ask about places like Adams or JE Reel.
 
Just asking what the secret to the Tom Woods shafts is.

I don't think there's any secret.
Most don't have the skills to build their own so they buy one.
They don't buy enough of them to know if the local guy is any good.
So, they go with what's recommended, ie Tom Woods, etc.

Side note.
My local 4x4 shop is also a gear and driveline shop (builds driveshafts, etc.).
I still ended up going with a Tom Woods shaft.
 
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I used to make shafts but for different applications. Just asking what the secret to the Tom Woods shafts is.

There is no secret. Use the right combination of parts to fit the application and deliver it in a timely manner at a fair price.

To add to what Shawn is saying, a lot of "local" driveline shops just want to repair or mimic what was factory and do not want to mess with upgrades so a lot of times they quote long lead times and high prices as a way to politely decline the work. I know one shop that the former manager would have rather dealt with nothing but big truck shafts and not the "whiny Jeep guys".
 
I went with Adams when I had to get a new rear shaft. My experience was amazing and I wouldn't hesitate to use them again. In my experience Adams and Tom Wood's are the two best online for our jeeps.
 
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I used to make shafts but for different applications. Just asking what the secret to the Tom Woods shafts is.
Any competent driveshaft shop can make good driveshafts, the secret to Tom Wood's (not Woods) shop's success is his unsurpassed pre and post-sales support. Tom has mostly retired now, and what a nice guy he truly is after having met and talked with him for quite a while, so his son Shawn has taken over. Shawn is a credit to his dad, he's also a member here.

https://4xshaft.com/

I would have whoever you select use Spicer 5-1310x u-joints which are significantly stronger and more durable than what the factory installed.
 
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Hey everyone. Wow, I'm very honored that so many people speak so well of us, thank you.

To answer the question of what can aftermarket do that the local place can't: Well it depends on which aftermarket company you are talking about and who you have local. There are many local shops that do an excellent job and take pride in what they do. There are also online-type drive shaft companies who frankly do an awful job. Local depends on where you are, if you live in Ogden Utah we're the local shop! Not all local shops are good at getting their name out there nationally. Or maybe they don't even want to have that business model in the first place. Likewise, not all companies that are good at getting their name out there nationally are good. The point I'm trying to make is that reputation is the thing I'd focus on. If a local shop has a bunch of google reviews and they are close to 5 star rated they probably do a good job and deserve your business. The only thing I'd recommend is that if you have a local shop that you contact them first and get some pricing and turn around times. I hear from customers frequently that their local shop told them it would be $600 and 3 weeks for their local shop to build a shaft that we can do for $400 in 1-2 days.

My personal view is that I wish there were more good local shops scattered across the country. As a consumer myself I hate that I have to order everything online nowadays and wish I could go to a local specialist store and get the things I need. Plus, there's a lot of things that we or companies like us don't do and I hope that the local shops stick around so they can help local customers with those things. Anytime I can help a smaller shop somewhere with some parts or some knowledge I do. We're not trying to take all the business away from the smaller more regional shops, we're just here to provide a good option for those of you who don't have a good local place. Anyways, good is good, that could mean the 1-man operation down the street or it could mean someone like us or Adams.

That being said, places like us or Adams are 4WD and Jeep specialists so we probably have better knowledge, parts, and processes in place for building 4WD and Jeep drive shafts than most regional shops. If you want to learn more about what we might be doing differently you can read about it here https://4xshaft.com/pages/about-us. You're going to find a similar story and similar products if you look into or ask about places like Adams or JE Reel.

Any competent driveshaft shop can make good driveshafts, the secret to Tom Wood's (not Woods) shop's success is his unsurpassed pre and post-sales support. Tom has mostly retired now, and what a nice guy he truly is after having met and talked with him for quite a while, so his son Shawn has taken over. Shawn is a credit to his dad, he's also a member here.

https://4xshaft.com/

I would have whoever you select use Spicer 5-1310x u-joints which are significantly stronger and more durable than what the factory installed.

Thanks everyone. I aint great at asking the right questions. What I should have asked is if the tubing was a thicker wall than stock. That has been answered.

The big truck shafts were built to be the weak link where the tubing would twist before affecting the rearend or transmission. In our Jeeps, would the weak link be the u-joints?
 
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Thanks everyone. I aint great at asking the right questions. What I should have asked is if the tubing was a thicker wall than stock. That has been answered.

The big truck shafts were built to be the weak link where the tubing would twist before affecting the rearend or transmission. In our Jeeps, would the weak link be the u-joints?

That depends on your needs. If you have a tendency to rub your driveline on stuff, a thicker tube will increase its resistance to denting. A slightly larger tube diameter will increase its bending resistance. For the majority of TJ/LJ front shafts I use 2.0x.120 tube. For stock WB TJ rears it does not matter really since there is barely any tube in them. For LJ rears 2.5x.083 for the majority and 2.5x.095 for guys that use them a little harder. For up here in the great white north I rarely build "rockcrawler" shafts with .134 tubing as they are not needed and just add cost and weight I try to avoid.

Like big truck shafts I still try to build shafts for Jeeps with the same idea that the shaft is the "fuse" because it is far cheaper and easier than a diff or tcase repair. You will pretty much never see me recommend a 1350 joint on the TL/LJ with the exception of the Rubicon rear double cardan as that is what Neapco produces that bolts on the flange or you are running tons and 40s.
 
Thanks everyone. I aint great at asking the right questions. What I should have asked is if the tubing was a thicker wall than stock. That has been answered.

The big truck shafts were built to be the weak link where the tubing would twist before affecting the rearend or transmission. In our Jeeps, would the weak link be the u-joints?

I usually bad at answering things in comparative terms like thicker just because I don't always know everything about the thing I'm comparing ourselves to. But if we are comparing to stock, absolutely, the tubing is going to be much stronger than stock from about any drive shaft supplier you use. Pretty much the industry standard with tubing on an aftermarket TJ shaft is 2" diameter .120" wall. We use DOM, some use CREW. Most reputable shops are using Neapco and Spicer parts. For the most part, these are the only parts worth using. During 2021 there were huge supply chain shortages and we were constantly trying to find alternative sources to things to keep things rolling. I'd sometimes order in parts from manufacturers other than Neapco or Spicer to test them out. I'd do a hardness test of the material using an ultrasonic hardness tester and I'd do destructive testing alongside a Spicer and/or Neapco part as a control. More often than not the conclusion would be that we were better off not selling shafts than using the alternative supplier. There can be a pretty big quality gap between different components. Usually the cheap stuff is just that, cheap. We use way more Neapco parts than Spicer. That is because Neapco has shown more of a willingness to make things that are focused on and designed for aftermarket applications and because when/if there is a quality issue Neapco takes it far more seriously and addresses it more quickly. Because shops pretty much using the same parts there is a lot to be said about what someone does with those parts, how much experience and care they have when doing the work.

We don't design any part of the shaft to be the weak link or the fuse. We try to keep all the components equally matched. When it comes to tubing, the main thing we might upgrade on some shafts is wall thickness. But that is not in increase torque capacity, it is to increase rock/dent resistance. I don't like any part of the shaft to be the weak part, I want the entire shaft to be capable of meeting the needs of the vehicle. That being said, if someone says they want a 1350 series shaft in their TJ with a stock transfer case and stock axles I will tell them it's a bad idea because it would be making the shaft significantly stronger than the rest of the jeep. Evenly and adequately matched is our focus.

We do have many of the key features of our shafts listed on the product pages. Example https://4xshaft.com/products/tj-front-drive-shaft?_pos=1&_sid=544dba8b8&_ss=r.
 
I usually bad at answering things in comparative terms like thicker just because I don't always know everything about the thing I'm comparing ourselves to. But if we are comparing to stock, absolutely, the tubing is going to be much stronger than stock from about any drive shaft supplier you use. Pretty much the industry standard with tubing on an aftermarket TJ shaft is 2" diameter .120" wall. We use DOM, some use CREW. Most reputable shops are using Neapco and Spicer parts. For the most part, these are the only parts worth using. During 2021 there were huge supply chain shortages and we were constantly trying to find alternative sources to things to keep things rolling. I'd sometimes order in parts from manufacturers other than Neapco or Spicer to test them out. I'd do a hardness test of the material using an ultrasonic hardness tester and I'd do destructive testing alongside a Spicer and/or Neapco part as a control. More often than not the conclusion would be that we were better off not selling shafts than using the alternative supplier. There can be a pretty big quality gap between different components. Usually the cheap stuff is just that, cheap. We use way more Neapco parts than Spicer. That is because Neapco has shown more of a willingness to make things that are focused on and designed for aftermarket applications and because when/if there is a quality issue Neapco takes it far more seriously and addresses it more quickly. Because shops pretty much using the same parts there is a lot to be said about what someone does with those parts, how much experience and care they have when doing the work.

We don't design any part of the shaft to be the weak link or the fuse. We try to keep all the components equally matched. When it comes to tubing, the main thing we might upgrade on some shafts is wall thickness. But that is not in increase torque capacity, it is to increase rock/dent resistance. I don't like any part of the shaft to be the weak part, I want the entire shaft to be capable of meeting the needs of the vehicle. That being said, if someone says they want a 1350 series shaft in their TJ with a stock transfer case and stock axles I will tell them it's a bad idea because it would be making the shaft significantly stronger than the rest of the jeep. Evenly and adequately matched is our focus.

We do have many of the key features of our shafts listed on the product pages. Example https://4xshaft.com/products/tj-front-drive-shaft?_pos=1&_sid=544dba8b8&_ss=r.

In my gaining of experience, my tyre placement is still bad. I have hit the front shaft and ground it on rocks.

Thank you @Shawn at Tom Wood's for the info and all ya'll who commented.

Time to pull the shaft and get to measuring.
 
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