Hey Everyone, I’m new to this forum but have had my 2001 Jeep Wrangler Sport since it was 1 year old. I finally had enough extra cash to put a 4” lift on it with my dream wheels and tires (20” Fuel Assault w/33” Patagonia Milestar M/T. I got it back yesterday but the alignment is so bad the steering wheel is sideways/leaning upside down and there’s a lot of vibration in the first two gears. I know this isn’t right but the guy (Ramírez Tires- 5 stars on YelpsShop in Miami), said the alignment was already a little off (true), and the lift just magnified it. Strangely he didn’t offer to fix it and recommended I take it to another tire/alignment shop. The jeep is old, but less than 100k miles. It had lots of rust so the lift was more work than he thought so I already was on my back foot and desperate to get my jeep back after 3 weeks. He said it should be a simple fix. What should I do?
Alignment issues and vibration after 4 inch lift
- Thread starter 6zbeast
- Start date
To lift a TJ and make it drive well you have to compensate for all the changes you just made by moving the frame farther from the axles- the control arms instantly roll the axles as you lift.
The driveline has to be set up, the axles centered, the axles rotated for clearance and caster (front), the wheel centered and whatever else the lift affected or is already worn or loose- this is a general statement to give you the reality of what you are into.
The driveline has to be set up, the axles centered, the axles rotated for clearance and caster (front), the wheel centered and whatever else the lift affected or is already worn or loose- this is a general statement to give you the reality of what you are into.
A SYE is a slip yoke eliminator that gets installed into the transfer case. It is installed to allow the use of a different type of rear driveshaft that is properly designed to eliminate the vibrations caused by 4" or taller suspension lifts.
The factory rear driveshaft is called a single-cardan and it has two u-joints, one at the front and one at the rear. Its u-joints are not able to work in the steepened angles caused by such a tall suspension lift. Those steepened angles the u-joints are presented with are excessive with taller suspension lifts and they vibrate because of those excessive angles.
This is what the factory installed and your 4" suspension lift is too tall for the two u-joints on the rear factory driveshaft. The taller the lift the steeper the angles are for its two u-joints. When that angle gets excessive the u-joints start vibrating.
The type of aftermarket driveshaft that can be installed after installing the SYE is called a double-cardan. A double-cardan (DC) joint like shown below is also known as a CV (constant velocity) as the below drawing calls it. A DC driveshaft has three u-joints, two up front and one in the rear. The way it's designed eliminates the steep angles the u-joints work into so they don't vibrate.
Something else that has to be replaced are the rear axle's fixed-length control arms. They hold and position the rear axle and need to be change to adjustable length designs. That's so the rear axle's input shaft, called its pinion shaft, can be raised so it's in-line with the driveshaft as this illustration shows. Shortening the upper control arms and lengthening the lower arms rolls the axle so its input shaft (its input shaft) gets angled/raised upward so it's at the same angle as the driveshaft. The rear u-joint is pointed straight so it has no angle to work into. The front two u-joints divide the angle in half so each u-joint is only working into half of the total angle.
In closing, some unscrupulous 4x4 shops will install tall suspension lifts like your 4" and "forget" to tell you that you'll also need a SYE and DC driveshaft to be installed. They "forget" to tell you because that adds enough cost to it that many would decide against going that tall due to the cost. They know the customer will have to come back later about the vibrations and be forced to fork out the extra $$$ for them to be installed to get rid of the vibrations. I hate shops like that.
Can you post pics of the jeep please one from the front and one from the side
@6zbeast is this the lift kit?
https://www.roughcountry.com/jeep-suspension-lift-kit-661.html
If not, make sure your kit has adjustable control arms and trackbars.
Vibes:
The vibrations in first and second gear are probably due to the misaligned driveline. See the suggestions above about the SYE mod.
What gearing ratio do you have? You may be severely under-geared, running a 3.07 on 33's is a struggle for that ratio.
Alignment:
You can recenter the steering wheel, by loosening the 2x bolts on the drag link, and rotating the collar to recenter the steering wheel.
Check your Toe In as well if you find the vehicle tracking to the side.
https://www.roughcountry.com/jeep-suspension-lift-kit-661.html
If not, make sure your kit has adjustable control arms and trackbars.
Vibes:
The vibrations in first and second gear are probably due to the misaligned driveline. See the suggestions above about the SYE mod.
What gearing ratio do you have? You may be severely under-geared, running a 3.07 on 33's is a struggle for that ratio.
Alignment:
You can recenter the steering wheel, by loosening the 2x bolts on the drag link, and rotating the collar to recenter the steering wheel.
Check your Toe In as well if you find the vehicle tracking to the side.
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Jerry is spot on as always with his explanation about the SYE. If you are more of a visual learner you can watch the video and explanation on this page https://4xshaft.com/blogs/general-t...-eliminator-installation-purpose-and-benefits.
Regarding the quote above about shops forgetting to tell you that you need other things to make everything work properly. When people ask me "Why did the shop installing the lift (or why did the lift manufacturer) say it would work with the stock shaft?" I usually reply by telling them that they were being loose with their definition of what it means for the Jeep to "work". The jeep still moves forward when you push on the gas? Sure, it still works. The shaft operates smoothly and effectively? Probably not. I do think that this is often intentional and it is irresponsible. If people are going to sell someone a lift, they need to be upfront and honest with the customer about the other things that might need to be done to make everything work properly. I once talked to a guy who spent something like $10,000 on a big lift for his truck that made a front shaft impossible to run. Not only would his stock shaft not work but we couldn't build anything that would work either. The lift manufacturer seemed to not care if the guy was turning his 4WD truck into 2WD, as long as they got their $10K.
As a side note, I often reflect on the fact that there is a whole aftermarket industry that exists basically because people want bigger tires. Bigger tires require a lift, which require a CV shaft, which requires a SYE, and so on and so on. It reminds me of a book I had as a small child. The story can be found here
In a Jeep, the fly is bigger tires. The horse is something like an LS motor or $20,000 axles.
Thanks for this… mine wheel rotated as well after my first day on the trails after my lift… now I can get it adjusted without going back for another alignment. Cheers
LONGJP2
TJ Expert
Rough Country, Patagonia, and 20" wheels.
Probably not what you want to hear, but you had 20 years to do some research.
If you came here first, you might have done things differently.
I would adjust the steering at the drag link. Put the jeep on level ground with it running. Under the front end there is a bar running from the passenger side up to the pitman arm. That’s your drag link. There are two collars on that tube with threads that twist in the collar. Loosen the two bolts on the collar. Now keep the jeep running and adjust the collar by twisting till your steering wheel and tires are straight ahead. Now tighten the collars.
Time to align the Jeep. There are instructions to do that here.
https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/how-to-align-your-jeep-wrangler-tj.85/
After that see where u are. Some pics would be helpful at that point.
Seriously thank you all for the responses. It is really helpful. It looks like I’m gonna be putting a lot more money into this. I just ordered new steering components (tie rod, track bar, drag link, and pitman arm), which was $600 and will be $300 to $450 in labor. I guess the next is the SYE and rear axel work. I need to do this a chunk at a time because it’s a lot of money. It’s got some rust that needs addressed asap.
Oh, Sancho asked what lift kit. I got the one the mechanic at the tire shop told me to get. It was $599 at the time, but it definitely seems like he should have requested I get the more expensive one, since I’m now having to buy those parts anyway.
https://www.roughcountry.com/jeep-s...23749&utm_term=|pla-1635499885135|m||90630-01
Oh, Sancho asked what lift kit. I got the one the mechanic at the tire shop told me to get. It was $599 at the time, but it definitely seems like he should have requested I get the more expensive one, since I’m now having to buy those parts anyway.
https://www.roughcountry.com/jeep-s...23749&utm_term=|pla-1635499885135|m||90630-01
You have that backward, do the steering wheel after the alignment (unless you want to do the wheel twice).
Save some money and do it yourself. An alignment is very easy to do.
So this is the CV joint I’m thinking of ordering. It doesn’t say it comes with an SYE so I found one of those too. Whatcha think?
https://www.roughcountry.com/rear-c...01-jeep-wrangler-tj-4wd-738851&sid=jXfH7RDzQl
https://www.roughcountry.com/np231-...06.html?find=2001-jeep-wrangler-tj-4wd-738851
https://www.roughcountry.com/rear-c...01-jeep-wrangler-tj-4wd-738851&sid=jXfH7RDzQl
https://www.roughcountry.com/np231-...06.html?find=2001-jeep-wrangler-tj-4wd-738851
I definitely wouldn't go with Rough Country. Give Shawn Wood a call at www.4xshaft.com who does driveshafts and SYE kits. @Shawn at Tom Wood's
He and his semi-retired dad Tom provide unsurpassed pre and post-sales support, you would never regret going with a Tom Wood's Custom Driveshafts product.
1000x, I've called and emailed Tom Woods and Shawn enough times to know I won't buy a driveshaft any where else.
The first rule of Jeep ownership: One mod leads to another. All you do is move the weak link to another spot.
Also are you building a Mall Crawler or Off Road performer? I think you broke some kind of record owning a TJ for so long with out suspension mods. Spend some quality time going through the many informative posts.
Note to fellow members. Its nice to see that new members are not jumped on like I’ve seen in the past.
Also are you building a Mall Crawler or Off Road performer? I think you broke some kind of record owning a TJ for so long with out suspension mods. Spend some quality time going through the many informative posts.
Note to fellow members. Its nice to see that new members are not jumped on like I’ve seen in the past.
No, you just have to wait for the Savvy vs Metalcloak or Savvy customer service thread
Thanks Bucky. As much as I wish my jeep would ever get home with me to Moab, since I live in Miami, it is unlikely to ever see a trail … probably not even mud, definitely not snow. So any modifications need only be cosmetic. I’m not trying to build anything that needs to perform. I just want him to look tough and clean him up (he’s family now, it’s been 21 years).
I bought my jeep in DC because it reminded me of home but I rarely drove it. I lived in cities where I took public transit to work, so my jeep has mainly been a curb ornament. I added crome bumpers and step sides, bought the bikini and soft top, ran 31” tires on my stock rims, but I’ve worked for the government which barely pays a living wage anymore (not like the old days of cushy salaries and pensions), so the lift and really big tires wasn’t an option.
Hence why I bought the rough country lift. So if I need a CV drive shaft and SYE, I need to do it as economically as possible. Already replacing the steering components is putting me way into the red.