Andy G needs brake love

Now, will you please give Jerry his avatar back. :cool:

Could use this-

910F717F-4255-4BC8-99A3-05C20B9B917A.jpeg

Actually - The story behind this is kind of special- WRG- That is my late fathers initials.

It will stick around.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheBoogieman
Maybe grind a pinhole in a hard brake line...😏

You know it was amazing how close that line was to complete failure -

Basically it lasted until that Jeep got to Alabama-


Super small -

Just an amazing freak accident/careless move.

Sometimes I think if it’s going to happen it’s going to happen to me.
 
  • Wow
Reactions: trojandawg
We'll take all the help we can get. As I've related, they are a very tough sell. Folks will spend money on anything but brakes. And then they will spend money on anything but a big brake kit. The forums are full of all manner of "solutions" to avoid actually putting on something that works. I can't really say much because I look like I'm bashing the competition and no one really believes me anyway. What they don't see are the 100's of emails and phone calls I get telling me that they have tried those solutions and now they are ready for something that will actually work.

I really think the average guy out here that puts oversize tires on a rig just doesn’t begin to think, plan or finance ahead.

I remember when I first heard about gearing...I was like oh crap. Really?

Then when I started hearing about oversize brakes I don’t think I even knew there was a real possibility that a system could be converted over/ Let alone that it needed to be.

I think some of the dynamic is twofold and it’s sort of like the plumbing supplier that is the last to get paid because his stuff goes into the house at the end of the job and at that point usually the builder is tight on cash...And of course to plethora of magic pads and ideas to avoid biting the bullet.

I’d say brakes and gears are by far the most common left to do Items on partially built rigs.

I know I’ll get some pokes for mentioning them and you more -“ Boy Andy - you’re all about Blaine now- “

I don’t care -

First I had no idea what was going on and honestly I just thought the tires and wheels weighed so much that they were just offsetting the brake kits’ higher power and that was how it worked. I had no baseline.

Also the rig wasn’t driven a lot at first and couldn’t be driven fast - and the issue crept up as I dialed it in.

One of my buddies was ribbing me about being all about Blaine now...I texted back something to the effect “ I’m sorry who is this I don’t recognize this number”😝

But all said and done in the world where I was raised when you’re treated wonderfully show some gratitude.
 
I really think the average guy out here that puts oversize tires on a rig just doesn’t begin to think, plan or finance ahead.

I remember when I first heard about gearing...I was like oh crap. Really?

Then when I started hearing about oversize brakes I don’t think I even knew there was a real possibility that a system could be converted over/ Let alone that it needed to be.

I think some of the dynamic is twofold and it’s sort of like the plumbing supplier that is the last to get paid because his stuff goes into the house at the end of the job and at that point usually the builder is tight on cash...And of course to plethora of magic pads and ideas to avoid biting the bullet.

I’d say brakes and gears are by far the most common left to do Items on partially built rigs.

I know I’ll get some pokes for mentioning them and you more -“ Boy Andy - you’re all about Blaine now- “

I don’t care -

First I had no idea what was going on and honestly I just thought the tires and wheels weighed so much that they were just offsetting the brake kits’ higher power and that was how it worked. I had no baseline.

Also the rig wasn’t driven a lot at first and couldn’t be driven fast - and the issue crept up as I dialed it in.

One of my buddies was ribbing me about being all about Blaine now...I texted back something to the effect “ I’m sorry who is this I don’t recognize this number”😝

But all said and done in the world where I was raised when you’re treated wonderfully show some gratitude.

One of these days that southern crew is going to get into some outboarded and well tuned shocks with some DSC adjusters and then the realization of what you thought ya'll knew about suspension and didn't will be 10 to 20 times more eye opening than what finding out about good brakes is.

That said, to help with the brake discussions, the easiest way is to just ask if they can lock up the fronts on dry pavement at any speed. If they can't, they're good. If they can't, then how far away from being able to are they? In other words, how much safety are they leaving on the table? That is never something that should be in question.

There is always pushback from folks saying that locking up the tires is bad. Yep, that is absolutely true but it is a benchmark that everyone can understand and while a crappy one, that's all we have so use it.

Being on the receiving end, I get all of the justifications.
I just drive with lots of room between me and the car ahead.

I don't drive it offroad much. (not sure why that matters but I get it all the time)

I don't drive it on the street much. (still not sure why that matters)

Will just the pads make my rig safe? I don't want to spend money on the big kits.

I just want a master cylinder upgrade. (no such thing)

My 37's are very light, can I get just the pads and make them work?

I don't tow anything, can I make just the pads work?

I tow a 3000 pound boat, can I make just the pads work?

On and on and on.
 
  • Love
  • Like
Reactions: psrivats and AndyG
One of these days that southern crew is going to get into some outboarded and well tuned shocks with some DSC adjusters and then the realization of what you thought ya'll knew about suspension and didn't will be 10 to 20 times more eye opening than what finding out about good brakes is.

That said, to help with the brake discussions, the easiest way is to just ask if they can lock up the fronts on dry pavement at any speed. If they can't, they're good. If they can't, then how far away from being able to are they? In other words, how much safety are they leaving on the table? That is never something that should be in question.

There is always pushback from folks saying that locking up the tires is bad. Yep, that is absolutely true but it is a benchmark that everyone can understand and while a crappy one, that's all we have so use it.

Being on the receiving end, I get all of the justifications.
I just drive with lots of room between me and the car ahead.

I don't drive it offroad much. (not sure why that matters but I get it all the time)

I don't drive it on the street much. (still not sure why that matters)

Will just the pads make my rig safe? I don't want to spend money on the big kits.

I just want a master cylinder upgrade. (no such thing)

My 37's are very light, can I get just the pads and make them work?

I don't tow anything, can I make just the pads work?

I tow a 3000 pound boat, can I make just the pads work?

On and on and on.

I’m laughing.

People will do near anything other than bite the bullet.

My only question right now is wondering what happens when you put this much stopping power on a little TJ with 33’s-
 
I’m laughing.

People will do near anything other than bite the bullet.

My only question right now is wondering what happens when you put this much stopping power on a little TJ with 33’s-

Equivalent is the 15" kit on 33's which is very much overkill to the same level you have now. Your kit will work perfectly with 37's, the 17" kit locks up 40's with ease, the 15 and 16" kits work very well with 35's.

The big problem is keeping them broken in.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AndyG
Equivalent is the 15" kit on 33's which is very much overkill to the same level you have now. Your kit will work perfectly with 37's, the 17" kit locks up 40's with ease, the 15 and 16" kits work very well with 35's.

The big problem is keeping them broken in.

Is the name of the game to stop a little aggressive? To keep the pads broke in.
 
Is the name of the game to stop a little aggressive? To keep the pads broke in.

Just use them like you mean it, no long coasting stops if they can be avoided. If you notice them down in performance, go break them in again, they'll come right back.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AndyG
Just use them like you mean it, no long coasting stops if they can be avoided. If you notice them down in performance, go break them in again, they'll come right back.

Sounds good- Suits my driving style perfectly- And the reason my wife won’t hardly ride with me in it.
 
Read what he said about bench bleeding. When you BB with plugged ports, you know it is good when the plunger will only go in around 1/8". That is the distance the cup seals are back from the ports that let fluid out of the reservoir into the bore of the master. The reservoir has to be able to keep the bore full and there has to be a way for fluid expansion to be dealt with. The cup seals move past the ports and only when they are past, do they push fluid out to the wheel cylinders. Otherwise they would just push fluid back up into the reservoir and no pressure would ever reach the wheel cylinders.

If the booster push rod is correct, there is the least amount of freeplay possible to eliminate excess pedal travel but not so long that it pushes the cup seals past the ports. If that happens, there is no place for the expanding fluid to go and the brakes will self apply.

Generally, that works about to about 30 to 60 thousandths gap when the master plunger makes contact with booster pushrod. I tend to err on the side of caution and hold it around 30 or roughly the thickness of two normal business cards.

If anyone finds an affordable version of the measuring tool, post it up, I've been looking for one to recommend.

There is no external discernible difference between the stock and BBK master so the adjustment is the same.

Thanks for confirming the gap. This all sounds familiar but its been a couple years since i read your post about it on another defunct forum.

The previous owner of my dads 98 had shuttle valve issues when bleeding and took it apon himself to monkey with the pushrod and some other things. The result was a lowish pedal when running. I have the same work as andy to go through with it. It has never sat right with me to give my dad a jeep with brakes that aren't perfect.

I put 3 times the effort into the 98 than my 97(which works great) and made marginal gains. Heck the 97 got all new hard and soft lines,abs delete,f&r discs and it went together effortlessly whil drinking beer on the weekends.

Bench bleed and pushrod verification are in the future
 
Last edited:
Thanks for confirming the gap. This all sounds familiar but its been a couple years since i read your post about it on another defunct forum.

The previous owner of my dads 98 had shuttle valve issues when bleeding and took it apon himself to monkey with the pushrod and some other things. The result was a lowish pedal when running. I have the same work as andy to go through with it. It has never sat right with me to give my dad a jeep with brakes that aren't perfect.

I put 3 times the effort into the 98 than my 97(which works great) and made marginal gains. Heck the 97 got all new hard and soft lines,abs delete,f&r discs and it went together effortlessly whil drinking beer on the weekends.

Bench bleed and pushrod verification are in the future

The shuttle valve is just bizarre. We went for years without it ever being a problem. About 04 or so, they changed something in the switch that lets it pop easier. I suspect a lower force spring on the detent pin but whatever they did, they shift every single time we bleed an 04-up. Also why it took so long for me to come up with a lock out tool. I bought several and none of them fit. I really didn't want to make them, but a ready source I could recommend was not easily found.

Be aware that I used a lot of non specific terms to indicate these are loose guidelines. I have dealt with some masters that are zero gap. I've dealt with others that could use a full 100 thou. Some of that depends on the booster. We are checking it with the engine off and some of them will nudge forward ever so slightly under full vacuum. Just be aware that you will have to keep an eye on what it is doing and pivot from there.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rickyd
Thanks for confirming the gap. This all sounds familiar but its been a couple years since i read your post about it on another defunct forum.

The previous owner of my dads 98 had shuttle valve issues when bleeding and took it apon himself to monkey with the pushrod and some other things. The result was a lowish pedal when running. I have the same work as andy to go through with it. It has never sat right with me to give my dad a jeep with brakes that aren't perfect.

I put 3 times the effort into the 98 than my 97(which works great) and made marginal gains. Heck the 97 got all new hard and soft lines,abs delete,f&r discs and it went together effortlessly whil drinking beer on the weekends.

Bench bleed and pushrod verification are in the future

Here is a thread that details some of that discussion...I had questions, so I went looking.

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/super-16-brake-install-trouble.25319/

I've never checked my master for the gap of the rod, so that is something I intend on verifying.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rickyd