Anyone else using Factor55's Hawse + Flatlink?

[jeep_boss]

Wanted to see if anyone else had any feedback on their hawse with the Flatlink for durability or just real world use.

I installed the combination yesterday on my Jeep with a rope guard - looks cool, but I can't help think that the rope guard is going to fly off winching under pressure from the rope thimble.

 

[dapipp]

While it doesn't look like you have any responses I am curious how you like it. I am thinking of going with the FlatLink E (Expert) on a steel cable.

 

[jeep_boss]

While it doesn't look like you have any responses I am curious how you like it. I am thinking of going with the FlatLink E (Expert) on a steel cable.

I have only had to use it a few times since I got it. So far, so good. Outside of looking cool, I don't really have any feedback on them compared to the stock hook. I may actually get the larger expert one though, just in case I need to hook up something larger.

 

[CodaMan]

My problem with the Factor 55 stuff is that it's not using the strength of the rope for the pull, it's using the strength of a pin and that pin is just one more thing that can fail.

As shown in the picture below, what's the purpose of the Flatlink? Just connect the D-ring to the cable.

 

[Chris]

I remember having a discussion with @mrblaine about the Factor55 a while back, and I can’t recall exactly what was said, but I know he and pointed out the big design flaws with their product, and I came away realIzing that the TRE Safety Thimble is a far superior product. I’m not entirely sure who was first to market, but I’m pretty sure the Factor55 was a poor attempt at ripping off the Safety Thimble.

I could be wrong of course.

 

[Chris]

My problem with the Factor 55 stuff is that it's not using the strength of the rope for the pull, it's using the strength of a pin and that pin is just one more thing that can fail.

As shown in the picture below, what's the purpose of the Flatlink? Just connect the D-ring to the cable.

View attachment 30916

That’s what I was thinking too. It’s using the strength of a pin, not the rope. The TRE Safety Thimble is the other way around.

 

[jeep_boss]

My problem with the Factor 55 stuff is that it's not using the strength of the rope for the pull, it's using the strength of a pin and that pin is just one more thing that can fail.

As shown in the picture below, what's the purpose of the Flatlink? Just connect the D-ring to the cable.

View attachment 30916

I can't speak for anyone else, but in my case I needed a new fairlead when I destroyed my old rollers and switched to synthetic rope. The F55 one worked out best for me, and I liked the idea of the Flatlink keeping shit flush on the fairlead. To each their own.

 

[CodaMan]

I can't speak for anyone else, but in my case I needed a new fairlead when I destroyed my old rollers and switched to synthetic rope. The F55 one worked out best for me, and I liked the idea of the Flatlink keeping shit flush on the fairlead. To each their own.

I do like the way it sits flat as well. Do they make one where the rope is braided into the link or do all of them just use a pin? If the rope is braided on and around the link hole, that would work.

 

[mrblaine]

I remember having a discussion with @mrblaine about the Factor55 a while back, and I can’t recall exactly what was said, but I know he and pointed out the big design flaws with their product, and I came away realIzing that the TRE Safety Thimble is a far superior product. I’m not entirely sure who was first to market, but I’m pretty sure the Factor55 was a poor attempt at ripping off the Safety Thimble.

I could be wrong of course.

Just so you can be sure, I developed the Safety Thimble at least 10 years before they started selling anything. If you want to understand anything about rigging for recovery safely, you should fully understand that the least number of connections is always the safest. Don't violate that rule and you'll be much safer for it.

 

[CodaMan]

OK. They just came out with a Flatlink that is spliced. That would be the way to go. I'm not sure what the Rope Guard does, but it does clean up the look.

 

[Chris]

The TRE Safety Thimble sits flat on the fairlead as well. But yeah, to each their own. I just personally don’t want that pin being the point of failure on my recovery equipment.

Sorry, not trying to turn this thread into an argument. I was just sharing my opinion. I have no real world with anything other than the Safety Thimble.

 

[CodaMan]

I use the TRE Safety Thimble II and its as safe as possible, but one that sit flat like the Factor 55 would much better for those of us who must have a license front plate. I have to run it like this now:

 

[Chris]

I use the TRE Safety Thimble II and its as safe as possible, but one that sit flat like the Factor 55 would much better for those of us who must have a license front plate. I have to run it like this now:

View attachment 30919

Can’t you mount that license plate lower on the bumper, out of the way of the fairlead?

 

[CodaMan]

Can’t you mount that license plate lower on the bumper, out of the way of the fairlead?

I could, but it might get trashed there and being from California they would probably charge me $500 for a new one

 

[bobthetj03]

Had an interesting chat on another forum about this, and my conclusion was to get rid of the hook and run this setup.

the pin diameter is double the thickness. It's a threaded connection, and the big ass washers secure it from rattling, and my license plate dealio fits just right.

 

[Neal]

Had an interesting chat on another forum about this, and my conclusion was to get rid of the hook and run this setup.
View attachment 30946
the pin diameter is double the thickness. It's a threaded connection, and the big ass washers secure it from rattling, and my license plate dealio fits just right.

I did much the same thing, using a polyurethane caster wheel as a way to keep the thimble from being pulled back through the fairlead (along with my hand). If Warn can attach their hook directly to the thimble, then there's no reason why I can't do the same thing with a bow shackle.

 

[mrblaine]

I did much the same thing, using a polyurethane caster wheel as a way to keep the thimble from being pulled back through the fairlead (along with my hand). If Warn can attach their hook directly to the thimble, then there's no reason why I can't do the same thing with a bow shackle.
View attachment 31006

View attachment 31007

Unfortunately for as smart as Warn is when it comes to stuff, they have a major flaw in that tube thimble because it can contact and tear up the aluminum fairlead. The damage to the fairlead is very common on a lot of rigs we see and that shreds the synthetic line when it is reeled in under load. That is the worst possible scenario you want with a synthetic line. The second flaw is any so called abrasion guard. No one should be running one on synthetic line.

If you are going to trust your fingers to that plastic wheel, you need to test it and if it won't stall the winch, get something else.

 

[mrblaine]

I use the TRE Safety Thimble II and its as safe as possible, but one that sit flat like the Factor 55 would much better for those of us who must have a license front plate. I have to run it like this now:

View attachment 30919

You don't "have" to run it like that. You can always get a Safety Thimble fairlead from Ricky with his plate mount.

 

[Neal]

Unfortunately for as smart as Warn is when it comes to stuff, they have a major flaw in that tube thimble because it can contact and tear up the aluminum fairlead. The damage to the fairlead is very common on a lot of rigs we see and that shreds the synthetic line when it is reeled in under load. That is the worst possible scenario you want with a synthetic line. The second flaw is any so called abrasion guard. No one should be running one on synthetic line.

If you are going to trust your fingers to that plastic wheel, you need to test it and if it won't stall the winch, get something else.

As always, you make some excellent points, and I won't say that I had thought my way through all of them before deciding to make some changes. Eventually, though, I stumbled into the light, or as close as I am ever likely to get. Yes, I could have ponied up the money for a commercially available safety thimble of one design or another, but I'm kind of cheap and I figured that I might be able to come up with a design that I could put together myself and save some simoleans.

I'll address your points in order, if I may.

The Warn thimble design was the main reason I went with the poly wheel as the factory hook/thimble combo was obviously capable of doing just what you described. Before I came up with the wheel idea I put a shackle on the bumper and attached the hook to that as a stowage option, but I didn't like it much because of the possibility of running the thimble into the fairlead during a winching evolution. The wheel acts as a bumper and helps to keep the line snug without putting it under too much tension while stowed. It is a moderately soft composition that has some give to it so as to avoid damage to the fairlead. I drilled out the inside of the hole just enough to get the line through it, so there is no part of the thimble that comes into contact with the fairlead. There is no metal to metal contact. I actually had to unreel all of the line to get the wheel on in the first place and it is nice and snug on the line.

As for the "abrasion guard", I never installed it at all, due to your (and lots of other folks') advice in previous posts.

Finally, I have, over many years of observing others, evolved a technique for handling winch line (or any other rope, line, hawser, sheet, stay or cable). It can be boiled down to one idea: Never have any body part inside a loop (bight) in any line or attachment thereto. It is easy enough to maintain a little tension on a winch line by grasping the thimble, shackle or hook by its sides instead of sticking a finger or two through it. and yes, I did test my new setup to make sure the system works as advertised. It does.

 

[mrblaine]

As always, you make some excellent points, and I won't say that I had thought my way through all of them before deciding to make some changes. Eventually, though, I stumbled into the light, or as close as I am ever likely to get. Yes, I could have ponied up the money for a commercially available safety thimble of one design or another, but I'm kind of cheap and I figured that I might be able to come up with a design that I could put together myself and save some simoleans.

I'll address your points in order, if I may.

The Warn thimble design was the main reason I went with the poly wheel as the factory hook/thimble combo was obviously capable of doing just what you described. Before I came up with the wheel idea I put a shackle on the bumper and attached the hook to that as a stowage option, but I didn't like it much because of the possibility of running the thimble into the fairlead during a winching evolution. The wheel acts as a bumper and helps to keep the line snug without putting it under too much tension while stowed. It is a moderately soft composition that has some give to it so as to avoid damage to the fairlead. I drilled out the inside of the hole just enough to get the line through it, so there is no part of the thimble that comes into contact with the fairlead. There is no metal to metal contact. I actually had to unreel all of the line to get the wheel on in the first place and it is nice and snug on the line.

As for the "abrasion guard", I never installed it at all, due to your (and lots of other folks') advice in previous posts.

Finally, I have, over many years of observing others, evolved a technique for handling winch line (or any other rope, line, hawser, sheet, stay or cable). It can be boiled down to one idea: Never have any body part inside a loop (bight) in any line or attachment thereto. It is easy enough to maintain a little tension on a winch line by grasping the thimble, shackle or hook by its sides instead of sticking a finger or two through it. and yes, I did test my new setup to make sure the system works as advertised. It does.

When I designed the Safety Thimble, it was due to seeing a video of a guy winching in a competition in the PNW and his hand got sucked through the fairlead. My initial thought and experimentation was to make an aluminum wheel just like the one you have but obviously in aluminum as a stop collar. Standing there holding it my hand after installed it, I could see that it wouldn't be difficult to make the thimble and stop collar into one piece since the design objective was to create something that would stop the winch dead and not let the hook or thimble go through the fairlead under any conditions. You do what you're comfortable with, I've been around too many idiots on the trail doing recovery to leave much to chance.