If I remember right we had to get those 57 Powerglides to about 30 mph but they very well could be push started
Automatic or Manual?
- Thread starter UPJOHN
- Start date
If I remember right we had to get those 57 Powerglides to about 30 mph but they very well could be push started
derekmac
TJ Addict
I've seen different autos stall on the trails. Dodge Rams (two different ones), a Ford F150, and a Land Cruiser.
I've had the pressure sensor go bad my old 02 WJ, and that caused the transmission to slip and overheat. Have also had the input and output speed sensors go, causing improper and hard shifting. Computer controlled autos today and too damn sensitive and complicated.
I've also seen two different autos have the trans coolers lines ripped out, leaving them dead on the trail, and a three speed TJ killed its transmission shortly after a water crossing.
N/A for this section
Again, protect what needs protection to keep it viable. If cooler lines are getting ripped off, someone isn't running a skid and should be and if you want to bring water into it. I know of several manual rigs that crossed silty water and fried stuff in the bell housing enough to need a full swap of everything from the front of the trans to the back of the motor.
We are going about this from a sort of backwards perspective though so lets try it another way. Let's pick a 35" tire trail in SoCal with a fairly high level of difficulty. We will assign a fairly affordable bounty of 100 dollars per TJ, and put 5 TJ with autos in a line and 5 rigs with manuals right behind them and we'll start the rigs and pull the starters out and leave them with a referee at the beginning of the trail. I get the money from every auto rig that finishes and you get the money from every manual rig that finishes.
Care to guess who will have the most when its over? Care to try it with 10 of each, 20 of each?
Anyone that has wheeled knows the answer.
derekmac
TJ Addict
A good driver in a properly built rig, meaning proper gear ratios would be able to navigate it with no problems. But yes, you could stick a newish driver in the auto and he'd make it up as well.
An event like rock bouncing, I think an auto is the only way to go. Most guys I know that build buggies for crawling prefer a manual though. But with the crawl ratios they have, with them in 1st gear, and the lowest range they can use with the t-case(s), you could get out, make a pot of coffee and eat lunch, and hop back in as they'd only have gone a couple of feet. They are also running mostly 40"+ tires, and have a 90% chance of flopping with the terrain they run.
In the end, it's all personal preference. Both have positives and negatives. I always said an auto was better for off-roading, that is until I took my Rubi off-roading. I personally like the extra little bit on concentration and attention needed to drive a stick in the woods. For a newish driver, or one not comfortable with driving stick, then an auto would be the way to go.
But with whatever you run, as long as you have fun, who cares what you drive.
An event like rock bouncing, I think an auto is the only way to go. Most guys I know that build buggies for crawling prefer a manual though. But with the crawl ratios they have, with them in 1st gear, and the lowest range they can use with the t-case(s), you could get out, make a pot of coffee and eat lunch, and hop back in as they'd only have gone a couple of feet. They are also running mostly 40"+ tires, and have a 90% chance of flopping with the terrain they run.
In the end, it's all personal preference. Both have positives and negatives. I always said an auto was better for off-roading, that is until I took my Rubi off-roading. I personally like the extra little bit on concentration and attention needed to drive a stick in the woods. For a newish driver, or one not comfortable with driving stick, then an auto would be the way to go.
But with whatever you run, as long as you have fun, who cares what you drive.
OP
My TJ is used mostly just for me to get to and from work everyday. Some days, during a big snow storm it's an adventure just driving 10 miles to get there. My '93 XJ with an auto did the job last winter, but this winter, in my TJ with the 5 speed has just been more FUN.
I can say from personal experience that several very difficult trails turned from downright frustrating and NOT fun when my previous TJ was running its OE 5-speed to downright fun and grin-producing after it was converted to the 32RH automatic transmission. The TJ kept the same configuration (same 4.88 axle gearing, 35" tires, lockers, etc.) after being converted to the auto.
TheFrenchMan
TJ Enthusiast
What if your starter dies on the trail? What if people don't have the money for all the skid plates to protect there transmissions and cooler lines? What if there jeep is just stock? Some of the TJ autos have no breather hose and if you cross too much water your trip is done where the same TJ with a manual would be fine. I just met a guy on the forum Facebook page that just had this exact problem. When a automatic transmission has a problems you are more likely to get stranded on the trail, where as a manual you will most likely be able to at least get it off the trail under its own power. You punch a hole in a manual and lose all your gear oil and you can still drive it. Do the same to an auto and you are going nowhere fast.
What if yours dies on the trail? At least with an auto, you can borrow a starter, install it, get it started and then give it back with no problem. (don't give me that push start crap either or I'll drag your ass to JV and steal your starter in the middle of Sledge where you won't push start anything)
Then they should exercise good judgment and quit blaming the rig for their lack of foresight or find a hobby they can afford.
Folks that identify themselves too much with a transmission choice always crack me up. I run into them all the time on the 'net and have since I've been doing it and it's absurd. At the end of the day, transmission choice just doesn't matter. It's your rig, go have fun and enjoy it however you built it. I prefer an auto, but I build rigs for folks all the time and have for years and not once have I turned down a job or belittled someone for their choice in transmissions because it just doesn't matter. They each have their pluses, each have their minuses and neither has a clear advantage in performance, only the amount of money it takes to get to the same level.
If you want to argue about something stupid, why don't we pick a color because this has ceased to entertain me.
Yes, but had you spent the money on a 5-1 Atlas and 5.13 gears, we could have put that smile right back on your face. Your wallet may not be smiling so much, but you wouldn't have been nearly so frustrated.
OP
Statistics show, Manual transmission vehicles are less likely to be stolen.
TheFrenchMan
TJ Enthusiast
You crack me up! Apparently everyone has to be a hardcore wheeler with you! 90% of the people on this forum don't have rig that can do even the most easy trail in the hammers! Come down off your high horse there buddy! You can justify your auto any way you feel you need to but at the end of the day, my manual will be more reliable, cheaper, and easier to repair on or off the trail and will be far less likely to have to be towed home. That is why I got a manual and I really don't care to argue common facts with you anymore.
I have "learned" a lot from you
Jeeps can't be push started...
A automatic transmission is more reliable than a manual...
Everyone that drives a jeep needs a competition rig that make it up the Hammers...
I think I'm done learning anything you want to "teach"
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My 4.3 Atlas and 4:88s didn't stall. I just didn't touch the gas.
But hey you guys keep going. I love a good belly rolling laugh?
Right after "What goes around, comes around," "to each their own" is my motto. Blaine said that very well. Run what ya brung and have a ball. Life is too short to argue about this shit!
Interesting article on the subject.
http://www.fourwheeler.com/news/160...inal-nail-in-coffin-for-manual-transmissions/
http://www.fourwheeler.com/news/160...inal-nail-in-coffin-for-manual-transmissions/
OP
You know we can all contribute without being nasty about it
Ok then. A black '97 Sahara with AX 15 is the Bestest.
That isn't what I said or meant and you know it.
If only any of that were true. I've been working on Jeeps a very long time. I've never replaced any of that crap you guys keep saying are the bane of autos and I've replaced more clutch discs, pressure plates, throw out bearings and pilot bearings than I can count. I've got an 04 auto in the driveway in a TJ Unlimited with over 200,000 original trans miles on it and it's fine. In that same time frame, I've had several friends with the NSC 370 have all manner of issues. The inverse is also true, I've seen the 42 have problems, but I've seen them not like mine and I own more than one.
You aren't learning anything, you're cherry picking stuff to be a dick, no more no less.
Never said that. I said you can't push start one that has a dead battery and if you're counting on being able to do a push start on a trail, you've overlooking the obvious.
Never said that either. What I said is pick one and go have fun because it doesn't matter.
Didn't say that either nor would I ever. What I have said repeatedly is it is your rig, build it however you like and go have fun with it because that is what it's all about, no more, no less.
As poor as your comprehension is, that is probably a very good thing.
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OP
TheFrenchMan
TJ Enthusiast
Speaking of pick and choosing to be a dick... It all leads back to a comment meant only to be a dick. No more, no less. You know exactly what I meant. Next time I'll be sure to say you can push start a jeep with a LOW battery with a manual.
Might I also suggest if you are going to nit pick terminology, include an explanation so everyone else who reads it will understand. Otherwise you just come off as pompous ass. No more, no less.
Pompous or not, Jerry explained why you were wrong. Take it up with him if you can't understand the difference and if you can, then YOU use the right words and no one will have to correct you.
No one was out to "nit pick" anything, we simply corrected several of your incorrect claims that you pushed us hard on. If you choose to get pissed from that and claim we're "nit picking" even after it was explained how and why such claims were incorrect, well that's just too bad.
You got completely butt hurt when several of your claims about manual transmissions were shown to be incorrect. Like your claim only a TJ with a manual transmission can be push-started. You said "With a manual it can be push started, with an automatic you can't end of discussion." Was it nit-picking when several of us confirmed that you can indeed push-start automatics?
Or when you claimed you can only push-start a TJ with a manual transmission when the battery is "dead". We pointed out how and why it cannot be push-started with a dead battery but it can be push-started when the battery is only weak... as in just too weak to engage the starter motor but can power the alternator. Is that nit-picking? There is a difference between a dead battery and weak battery. Use the correct terms and no one will be able to say anything.
You can't even jump start and then drive a TJ when its battery is dead. The engine will run for a minute or two once the jump start battery is removed but then it will die once the alternator's magnetic exciter field collapses. That is because the alternator requires +12v from the battery for it to produce power for the ignition system. Which is true whether the transmission is an automatic or a manual.
Make all the claims you want in the auto vs. manual transmission debate but be prepared to get called on any that aren't correct. And just because someone disagrees with you with supporting evidence is no reason to call them a "dick" or claim they're just nit-picking.
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