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Ball mount snapped and killed driver (Warning: images - no gore or blood)

someguysjeep

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A group that rolled up behind us yesterday, cutting off one from our group 🙄, ran all the F55 jewelry. Here's their premium rigging, don't do this.

View attachment 352954

i see like 9 potential failure points, 5 of them being much stronger than the rest. so that leaves it a roll of the dice which 1 of the other 4 it is.
on the other hand they can get a straight to anchor pull from about any angle though, so it'll always have that recoil aimed for ya.
 

steelhd

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Which were those? I missed that somehow.

Haphazard is probably the wrong word. I come from a world of certified welders and procedures, visual weld inspection, and etc. Those welds that failed may have been perfect and they may have been junk but they certainly weren't made with how the hitch was used in mind.
 

someguysjeep

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Haphazard is probably the wrong word. I come from a world of certified welders and procedures, visual weld inspection, and etc. Those welds that failed may have been perfect and they may have been junk but they certainly weren't made with how the hitch was used in mind.

the question was valid .which welds? did i miss some pics?

i'm not sure i see what you see if he sees what i see, ya see?
 

Blackjack

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Unfortunately stories like this have been happening for far too long. Folks just do not understand the stresses that amount of force generates. Pics like this one used to get passed around at club meetings to stress the importance of proper equipment and techniques.
You spelled "multiple failure points" wrong.

Apparently simplicity is not a word ever muttered at F55.

Over the years I have talked to thousands about how simple things like using the receiver for a strap just to get looked at like I am some kind of idiot.

IMG_0001.JPG
 

rasband

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i see like 9 potential failure points, 5 of them being much stronger than the rest. so that leaves it a roll of the dice which 1 of the other 4 it is.
on the other hand they can get a straight to anchor pull from about any angle though, so it'll always have that recoil aimed for ya.

I had my 7yro son step behind me while we watched this one. Already he knows better than to copy this.
 
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mrblaine

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Haphazard is probably the wrong word. I come from a world of certified welders and procedures, visual weld inspection, and etc. Those welds that failed may have been perfect and they may have been junk but they certainly weren't made with how the hitch was used in mind.

I don't see any failed welds. The abuse exceeded the material strength properties, it had no choice but I don't see any weld failure.
 

mrblaine

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Apparently simplicity is not a word ever muttered at F55.
It is hard to sell more and more pieces that add to connections if you adhere to sound rigging and recovery practices.
Over the years I have talked to thousands about how simple things like using the receiver for a strap just to get looked at like I am some kind of idiot.
Have you tried explaining how bolts and roll cages work lately?
 

Blackjack

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Have you tried explaining how bolts and roll cages work lately?

Roll cage no. Why there is a difference in fastener load between foot down and foot forward winch mounts and that grade 5 hardware is perfectly adequate yes. And bang my head against the wall like you probably did for sure.
 

mrblaine

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Roll cage no. Why there is a difference in fastener load between foot down and foot forward winch mounts and that grade 5 hardware is perfectly adequate yes. And bang my head against the wall like you probably did for sure.

At some point on foot down winches they just need to understand that the cast housing frame nut pockets are not stronger than grade 5 fasteners of the proper diameter. That and your grade 5 is woefully outdated since they changed over to Metric fasteners. I think they are 8.8 now, no?
 

Blackjack

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At some point on foot down winches they just need to understand that the cast housing frame nut pockets are not stronger than grade 5 fasteners of the proper diameter. That and your grade 5 is woefully outdated since they changed over to Metric fasteners. I think they are 8.8 now, no?

The ATV, VR Evo and Zeon use metric. Surprised it took this long for Warn to start.
 

psrivats

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It is hard to sell more and more pieces that add to connections if you adhere to sound rigging and recovery practices.

Have you tried explaining how bolts and roll cages work lately?

The roll cage discussions baffle me. I have seen thread after thread where you patiently point out and explain why cages with A pillar flat stanchions are bad. And people still go "something is better than nothing".
 
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srimes

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At some point on foot down winches they just need to understand that the cast housing frame nut pockets are not stronger than grade 5 fasteners of the proper diameter. That and your grade 5 is woefully outdated since they changed over to Metric fasteners. I think they are 8.8 now, no?

8.8 is the metric version of grade 8, right?
j/k
 

srimes

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Maybe not. The effective load imposed by the mired truck would probably be over 12,000 lbs and the recovery vehicle was probably 7,000 lbs. Once the rope was tight that is still over 19,000 lbs of force applied to a lever made of mild tube steel and haphazard welds.

12k on one end of a rope and 7k on the other does not equal 19k load...

Don't get me wrong, pulling on that hitch was a bad idea. But it did survive multiple pulls and broke a chain in the process. That's why I'm guessing it possibly could have survived a pull with a dynamic rope. Not that it'd be the right thing to do, just that they may have gotten away with it.

Shock loads are very hard to quantify. A 4k lb jeep on a long chain could easily create a shock load of 20k lb. And doing a static pull on slick ground may generate only 1-2k lb, which is why you often need to "bump" it. A dynamic rope/strap has give and allows to you get a run at it without creating huge shock loads.
 

steelhd

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12k on one end of a rope and 7k on the other does not equal 19k load...
The truck was mired in mud so a resistance factor over and above the truck's weight needs to be added. I used 75% of the truck's weight. Going back and looking at the pictures the truck was mired to the frame so 75% may be too low and 100%, or 2x the trucks weight, might be closer to reality.
 

mrblaine

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The truck was mired in mud so a resistance factor over and above the truck's weight needs to be added. I used 75% of the truck's weight. Going back and looking at the pictures the truck was mired to the frame so 75% may be too low and 100%, or 2x the trucks weight, might be closer to reality.

I'm not quite sure we know how to calculate that given that it doesn't take a force equal to the truck's weight to move it on flat ground in neutral.
 

steelhd

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I'm not quite sure we know how to calculate that given that it doesn't take a force equal to the truck's weight to move it on flat ground in neutral.
I don't think anyone can accurately calculate resistance factors in the field. So the best we have are rolling, incline, and mire resistance factors from places like this.
All of them seem to be similar. Probably all equally flawed.