Banks Sidewinder Turbo Issue with 06' TJ
- Thread starter Sgt Jarhead
- Start date
Brianj5600
TJ Expert
Brianj5600
TJ Expert
Banks boost is held to 6 psi and my boost gage confirms this. I see full boost from about 50% throttle open to full throttle if that helps. Additionally I have a wide band AFR meter, under acceleration I see anywhere from 10.1 to 11.7 AFR. When the stumbling starts that AFR goes to 17+ AFR.
It is as if the fuel is being cut off when the engine stubbles, I have tested fuel pressure during the stumbling, at the fuel rail, and it is stays at 50+ psi with very little change.
It is as if the fuel is being cut off when the engine stubbles, I have tested fuel pressure during the stumbling, at the fuel rail, and it is stays at 50+ psi with very little change.
@Bill M. Is your CEL flashing when this is happening? (like @Sicairos49 says in the OP)
If yes, this is a misfire and I would be very careful doing this over and over. I would assume the PCM would cut fuel for this type of active misfire, at least eventually, especially since there is no knock sensor and feedback to retard timing in that way. I'm not an expert on these PCM's, but that is how I would have designed it, especially since there ins't a knock sensor or a wideband O2 sensor for granular realtime feedback and correction of timing and AFR.
If yes, this is a misfire and I would be very careful doing this over and over. I would assume the PCM would cut fuel for this type of active misfire, at least eventually, especially since there is no knock sensor and feedback to retard timing in that way. I'm not an expert on these PCM's, but that is how I would have designed it, especially since there ins't a knock sensor or a wideband O2 sensor for granular realtime feedback and correction of timing and AFR.
I am no expert at ECM tuning but it would seem that if the issue was ignition related the AFR would go rich when the engine stubbles. Thus with the fuel pressure being good it appears there is a problem with the Banks tune shutting off fuel above 3500 rpms and full throttle after warm up.
I have been told by Banks that they updated the tune from the original allowing more timing, which would not cause our problem, and should not affect fuel. At this time I am leaning towards the new tune has a mapping error that Banks needs to address.
I get no codes. Banks has advised me to get the crank/cam sensor relearn done but when I take the Jeep to the dealer they say there is no relearn on the 2006 and older Jeeps. Of course that is a dealer talking and who knows if they are correct. It has been experience that on GM vehicles if the CKS relearn is not done after replacing the can position sensor misfires will not trip the CEL.
Maybe someone here knows if there is a relearn for the 2006 Wrangler CKS/cam sensor.
Brianj5600
TJ Expert
A/F gauges do not measure air fuel ratio. They measure oxygen content only. When cylinders don't fire, air goes straight through the engine into the exhaust and causes a false reading. You cannot depend on an A\F gauge during mis-fires.
It may not be blowing out the spark, but it is free to check. The fact that it only happens in top gear is what would lead me to blowout. At 6 psi it shouldn't be an issue unless there is something else causing weak spark.
It may not be blowing out the spark, but it is free to check. The fact that it only happens in top gear is what would lead me to blowout. At 6 psi it shouldn't be an issue unless there is something else causing weak spark.
OP
I’m not upset about it honestly. It was actually pretty quick since I’ve looked over this turbo so many times now
just hard to find the time with my kids needing my attention.
@Bill M. says he has a wideband hooked up. At least that is what I understood him to say.
"Additionally I have a wide band AFR meter, under acceleration I see anywhere from 10.1 to 11.7 AFR. When the stumbling starts that AFR goes to 17+ AFR."
OP doesn't have one. However, the PCM\Banks solution isn't using either gentleman's wideband, from what I understand. Someone please correct me if I am wrong. That said, you can and should log AFR while making PCM coding changes, especially when trying to lean out the mixture for power. I always want to be able to meter AFR in near real time, just to know what is going on a regular basis with forced induction. This is a good example of a time when you definitely would want to monitor AFR.
P.S. you are right though...we need to understand if fuel was pulled and what pressure was in the manifold, but 17 AFR is still 17 if under boost at this time.
Mots, you are correct, Banks does not use the wide band O2. Banks uses all the original equipment with the exception of the MAP which Banks changes to a 2 bar.
One additional piece of information is that above 3500 rpms =/- I can create the stubble no matter the gear. Like OP, for a time I originally thought the problem only occurred at the 2/3 shift.
I had issues in the past blowing out plugs with 12psi of boost. I would try regapping the plugs
OP
UPDATE*
While finishing returning it to stock, what I noted may have been the dumbest mistake I've made for the years and countless hours of work I've put into this rig. There were spacers that came with the kit that is suppose to raise the bracket for the throttle cables to be parallel to the throttle body due to a TB spacer being added from Banks... well I put the spacers on top of the bracket rather than below allowing the cable to only pull 3/4 when I hit the gas pedal.
Spent another few hours installing it all back on and it drives exactly how I imagined!
Now to fix a small oil leak on the return line to the oil pan before I proceed onto the list of small issues needing my attention.
While finishing returning it to stock, what I noted may have been the dumbest mistake I've made for the years and countless hours of work I've put into this rig. There were spacers that came with the kit that is suppose to raise the bracket for the throttle cables to be parallel to the throttle body due to a TB spacer being added from Banks... well I put the spacers on top of the bracket rather than below allowing the cable to only pull 3/4 when I hit the gas pedal.
Spent another few hours installing it all back on and it drives exactly how I imagined!Now to fix a small oil leak on the return line to the oil pan before I proceed onto the list of small issues needing my attention.
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This all sounds remarkably similar to the issues I'm having with my Supercharged 05 TJ. Under full throttle it's usually fine, but once in a while it just loses all power around 2800rpm+ and AFR spikes to 17+.
No codes. I've been doing the tuning myself in open loop and can't for the life of me figure it out. I am running one of those Split Second piggybacks that I've been assuming was the cause until reading this post. I was about to order up some injectors and a 2bar sensor to try going the Banks route but if we're experiencing the same problem it's obviously something else.
I'll check the plugs, never considered blow out. I currently run the colder plugs that RIPP suggests, gapped to what Boosted Tech recommends.
Otherwise I just ordered the HPTuners Pro set for the MPVI2 so I can do some proper logging and try to get this figured out.
No codes. I've been doing the tuning myself in open loop and can't for the life of me figure it out. I am running one of those Split Second piggybacks that I've been assuming was the cause until reading this post. I was about to order up some injectors and a 2bar sensor to try going the Banks route but if we're experiencing the same problem it's obviously something else.
I'll check the plugs, never considered blow out. I currently run the colder plugs that RIPP suggests, gapped to what Boosted Tech recommends.
Otherwise I just ordered the HPTuners Pro set for the MPVI2 so I can do some proper logging and try to get this figured out.
Hi,
I am still working on my problem but I don't think it is tune related but rather a timing chain issue. Seems for some reason the 4.0 L with superchargers and turbos don't like loose timing chains. The PCM will only allow 2.6 degrees of timing misalignment between the crank and cam position sensors, anymore and the PCM pulls fuel and or timing. Since I have custom time my jeep only gets fuel pulled.
Occasionally I get codes that the either the cam position sensor is bad, which it is not, or that the crank and cam are out of sync. The only way these codes can coming up is if the cam chain is stretched. I will post it the timing chain solves the problem