OP
Well If nothing else my trackbar won't be hitting my differential anymore. I'll fool with it some more if this doesn't work. I think eventually I'm gonna have to cut my losses and run.
Big-time bumpsteer!
- Thread starter Mandolinman
- Start date
Well If nothing else my trackbar won't be hitting my differential anymore. I'll fool with it some more if this doesn't work. I think eventually I'm gonna have to cut my losses and run.
I'm not following how that bracket is different than the one in the pictures that's welded onto the frame mount. Notch in the same spot.
Agree, the bends don't change the geometry from end to end, but if it's hitting non stop, I would guess that has some effect.
Stick with it, man. Lot’s of good help available here.
OP
That's because I'm a dummy
. There the same. I still had to notch the front side of the bracket. It seems to be working as should. Back to the drawing board. I think physically I'm done tinkering. Way past my pain tolerance. I'll let the pros have a a go. I'll at least get the driveway alignment I did verified by a shop. Jeep is fun to drive. How much better would it be if it stayed on the road? 
That's because I'm a dummy
No worries, ha, all good.
Unfortunately previous owners can do foolish things that are a hunt to fix.
OP
OK, so a local shop that works on off-road vehicles and also provides alignments is going to check and print the results. I thought $15 was a more than fair price. I will post results tomorrow night.
OP
Went to get the alignment checked on my tj. Just my luck a car broke down on the machine. Will go back tomorrow. After a scary ride home I thought about the way the tj was handling. Jayne said the problem might be several worn suspension components adding up to shit steer. Maybe? I noticed how groves and divits in the road was really screwing with the steering. It seems like the rear axle is moving left and right like it's floating around. While parked in the driveway I decided to push on the back driver side wheel with my foot. Heard a metal clunking sound. Started thinking a little bit of play in the axles. Long story short the heim joint on the rear trackbar was loose. I could grab it with my fingers and move it about. Question, will a 1/8 in. of play in the heim joint make you feel like you're being thrown around on the road?
OP
Are you saying use the xj Pitman arm? I believe Jerry said the geometry was good enough. With what you're telling me would that slow the return to center the way it is now?
no.
use an unmodified stock pitman arm if you don't have the ability to modify it. using a Cherokee pitman arm, you are 3/4" off the other direction. bumpsteer will be greatly reduced with the stock pitman arm if you even notice it. He'll, these guys running around with "crossover" steering and stock track bar mounts are 3" lower than the drag link if that tells you anthing in comparison to your pitman arm that is 1.8" lower than it should be.
OP
Can you buy a dpa with a 1 inch drop? I agree with you on that trackbar mount isn't putting much lower than stock height. 1 in. at best.
OP
No offense but I'm getting so many contradictory opinions on my steering geometry I don't know what to think. I've been leaning towards what you're saying from the get go. I think you're on to something. What do you think on my question about the rear trackbar?
Yes a bunch of semi worn out stuff can make your jeep drive terrible.especially if the alignment is off.
I agree on the pitman dropping further than the pivot being an issue.
Your lack of return to center can be a dry or binding ujoint or balljoint too.assuming the caster is actually 6*
OP
Tomorrow I'll have the alignment checked and printout. After further comparison I think that drop bracket is 1/2 to 3/4 in. at best lower than the stock bracket. Going to order the stock pitman arm replace the rear trackbar. I'm fairly confident the alignment is good ie caster angle is good. Replace ball joints and drag link tie rod end. Boot is torn. I'll be back in the race. Crossing my fingers.
The stock pivot point of the stock track bar tre is 1" below the stock bracket, 5.5" below the frame. The rc bracket is 1 3/4" below the stock bracket, 6.25" below the frame to the bolt center. "Good enough" is bull crap when we're talking about a pitman arm thats
2-3/8" lower than the stock one. This isn't another opinion, it's facts, no one else is able to state because they don't know don't care, or don't understand.
Your rear track bar will only be clanky if a bolt or bushing is loose. If the extension bracket is moving around you'll be a little squirmy.
Caster needs to be at least 6.5-7.5. We can run tj's 9 degrees with a 5" lift without vibration having good joints. If you have new ball joints that are stiff or improperly installed, they cause it to not want to return to center for up to a couple hundred miles. Stiff dual stabilizers or a single fox stabilizer can do the same thing also.
OP
I definitely didn't mean to offend you if I did. I've been leaning towards the steering geometry being messed up since I started the post. It's been stuck in my head for days. I needed confirmation and you gave it to me. Thank you. Stay tuned.
Just to make sure I understand your post, you’re saying that the total difference, according to your numbers (1 3/4” drop bracket and 2 3/8” drop pitman) the delta is 3/8”. Blaine posted that it’s close enough that the track bar relationship (from drop bracket) and drag link (from the DPA) won’t cause the shit steer bring described.
You’re saying that your facts disagree, that’s the whole issue would be that 3/8”?
That’s doesn’t make sense to me. Good luck to the OP, you’ve now lead him to have to cut off that bracket which looks like a total PITA, to test this theory, which you’re calling facts.
I sure hope you’re facts fix this problem, that’s a big crappy effort to find out it didn’t matter and the issues are still there, which it sounds like will be.
@Mandolinman THIS! That bracket and pitman arm ARE NOT your smoking gun. You probably won’t ever find a smoking gun. Inspect your joints and replace any you find that have worn out.
If you had the relocation bracket without the pitman arm or conversely then you could be concerned about that aspect. But you don’t.
I’d strongly suggest doing ball joints just because they likely need to be done. Plus while you do them you can do tie-rod ends and reset your toe-in. Just that alone can help drastically. At least get the ZJ conversion it would be more cost effective than seeking oem parts and much cheaper than Currie.
You mentioned play in a track bar joint, replace it. Seriously small play throughout your suspension adds up to big shit in the steering.
There is a reason why I’ve replaced everything under my jeep… shit wears out and I wheeled the shit out of it! You don’t have to spend thousands of dollars upgrading like me. Do the steering test. You’ll find what’s worn in no time and can make your parts list from there.
Good luck!