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Corruption

Equilibrium31

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...seems to be getting a bit more blatant these days.


Office of Government Ethics section 2635.702 said:
Use of public office for private gain. An employee shall not use his public office for his own private gain, for the endorsement of any product, service or enterprise, or for the private gain of friends, relatives, or persons with whom the employee is affiliated in a nongovernmental capacity, including nonprofit organizations of which the employee is an officer or member, and persons with whom the employee has or seeks employment or business relations.
Source: https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR-2007-title5-vol3/pdf/CFR-2007-title5-vol3-sec2635-702.pdf

 
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Equilibrium31

Equilibrium31

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No argument there that he's being completely unethical.

Donald Trump Jr. is also a huge fucking tool.
Yea. And it's nothing partisan. There's been a long history of people on both sides of the aisle doing shady shit for a long time, even if the current president is particularly flagrant about it.

There's a long list of people who think that being a Republican or Democrat, Socialist or Capitalist have something to do with being corrupt. In the end though, it just has to do with being powerful enough to get away with it.
 
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Chris

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Presidents should be banned from social media. I think all politicians should honestly.

I watched a documentary once that was talking about the made-up "line" that divides Republicans and Democrats in the U.S., and it was talking about how there isn't as much of a division as they'd like you to believe, and these two parties actually have way more in common than than anything. Of course they'll focus on the tiniest little issues and use those to make it seem as if one party is the exact opposite of the other.

We live in interesting times, I'll say that much. Makes me glad I won't live forever.
 
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Hook_62

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I disagree with you both. Ethics are clear throughout all businesses and official capacities in this country. If Trump's Twitter feed/page, was assigned to him by the Government of the US when he entered office for the purpose of governing, then yes he has an Ethics problem. Hypothetical: AP news is suggesting that if MrBlaine uses this forum, (simply because he has a large following hear) to promote his son's products that he is committing an ethics violation. Sorry not an ethics violation.
 
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Equilibrium31

Equilibrium31

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I disagree with you both. Ethics are clear throughout all businesses and official capacities in this country. If Trump's Twitter feed/page, was assigned to him by the Government of the US when he entered office for the purpose of governing, then yes he has an Ethics problem. Hypothetical: AP news is suggesting that if MrBlaine uses this forum, (simply because he has a large following hear) to promote his son's products that he is committing an ethics violation. Sorry not an ethics violation.
DOJ has already declared that Trump's tweets are official presidential statements a good while back.


The only reasons this isn't being played up as a bigger deal is that:
1) Trump is battling worse accusations from the impeachment stuff
and
2) The president is technically immune to these ethics violations by virtue of being the president

The ownership or assignment of his Twitter account, however, is irrelevant.
 

Hook_62

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DOJ has already declared that Trump's tweets are official presidential statements a good while back.


The only reasons this isn't being played up as a bigger deal is that:
1) Trump is battling worse accusations from the impeachment stuff
and
2) The president is technically immune to these ethics violations by virtue of being the president

The ownership or assignment of his Twitter account, however, is irrelevant.
Did you read it? You are talking about 2 separate things.
Trump’s tweets are official policy statements, although his actions with his Twitter account are “personal conduct that is not an exercise of state power.”
“To be sure, the President’s account identifies his office, and his tweets make official statements about the policies of his administration,” the DOJ’s motion for summary judgment argues. “But the fact that the President may ‘announce the actions of state’ through his Twitter account does not mean that all actions related to that account are attributable to the state.”

Official policy statements have nothing to do with Ethics anyway. The fact still remains that the Twitter feed belongs to Trump not the State. That would be like my employer telling me I'm not allowed to use my twitter account to sell something to a friend of mine that my son has,,, It's none of their F'n business.
 
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Chris

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That would be like my employer telling me I'm not allowed to use my twitter account to sell something to a friend of mine that my son has,,, It's none of their F'n business.
That’s actually a very good point.
 
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Hog

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Either way it’s like a musician using their following to promote their “political agenda”.. it’s all horse shit and I can’t stand to see how they use their power to benefit themselves
 
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Equilibrium31

Equilibrium31

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Did you read it? You are talking about 2 separate things.
Trump’s tweets are official policy statements, although his actions with his Twitter account are “personal conduct that is not an exercise of state power.”
“To be sure, the President’s account identifies his office, and his tweets make official statements about the policies of his administration,” the DOJ’s motion for summary judgment argues. “But the fact that the President may ‘announce the actions of state’ through his Twitter account does not mean that all actions related to that account are attributable to the state.”

Official policy statements have nothing to do with Ethics anyway. The fact still remains that the Twitter feed belongs to Trump not the State. That would be like my employer telling me I'm not allowed to use my twitter account to sell something to a friend of mine that my son has,,, It's none of their F'n business.
You're missing the forest for the trees.

Everything posted on Trump's Twitter account is part of his role as president, which is why all of his posts are archived in accordance with the Presidential Records Act of 1981.

Bulletin 2014-02 informs agencies that content created on social media platforms, including Twitter, is likely to be a Federal record and must be managed appropriately.

This is why the White House saves all of his Tweets, even when he deletes them.

This is why Trump is legally not allowed to block Twitter users with his account.

Trump's Twitter account is not a private account.

Even if it was, it wouldn't matter. Read the ethics rule again:
Office of Government Ethics section 2635.702 said:
Use of public office for private gain. An employee shall not use his public office for his own private gain, for the endorsement of any product, service or enterprise, or for the private gain of friends, relatives, or persons with whom the employee is affiliated in a nongovernmental capacity, including nonprofit organizations of which the employee is an officer or member, and persons with whom the employee has or seeks employment or business relations.
Trump has millions of people who follow his Twitter account **because** this is how he communicates official policy statements. Using this account for presidential statements and then using the same account to advertise a book is taking advantage of the millions of people who have followed his account in order to increase profit to his family. That's absolute blatant misuse of office.

If this was supposed to be a Twitter account that was for personal use, Trump could have used the @POTUS account that he was granted when he entered office. Just because he decided to use his personal account for official business doesn't mean he gets to dodge common sense ethics.

Sadly, what does allow him to dodge these ethics is the broad power that comes from being president.
 
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Equilibrium31

Equilibrium31

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That’s actually a very good point.
It's more like using your personal Twitter account for work and then using it to as a way to advertise to everyone who was following your personal Twitter before as well as to send the same advertisement to all the coworkers and vendors you work with in your professional role as well.

He's not trying to sell to a friend. He's trying to sell to everyone who is following his account and the vast majority of people following his account do so because of his political position and not because of some personal social connection.
 
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Hook_62

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You're missing the forest for the trees.

Everything posted on Trump's Twitter account is part of his role as president, which is why all of his posts are archived in accordance with the Presidential Records Act of 1981.



This is why the White House saves all of his Tweets, even when he deletes them.

This is why Trump is legally not allowed to block Twitter users with his account.

Trump's Twitter account is not a private account.

Even if it was, it wouldn't matter. Read the ethics rule again:


Trump has millions of people who follow his Twitter account **because** this is how he communicates official policy statements. Using this account for presidential statements and then using the same account to advertise a book is taking advantage of the millions of people who have followed his account in order to increase profit to his family. That's absolute blatant misuse of office.

If this was supposed to be a Twitter account that was for personal use, Trump could have used the @POTUS account that he was granted when he entered office. Just because he decided to use his personal account for official business doesn't mean he gets to dodge common sense ethics.

Sadly, what does allow him to dodge these ethics is the broad power that comes from being president.
I'm not missing anything. AP is trying to convict on ethics violations that are not there. If he were using his state provided email to promote his son's book, then yes. There is nothing the DOJ is able or can do about him using his twitter feed. if that were true you may as well go ahead and indict 98% of the US population. Everyone in this country first and foremost is a free person. AP would have you believe that that doesn't include POTUS? Learn to think for yourself, everything you've posted is straight bullshit that no free state has the authority of the people to enforce.
 

Hook_62

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It's more like using your personal Twitter account for work and then using it to as a way to advertise to everyone who was following your personal Twitter before as well as to send the same advertisement to all the coworkers and vendors you work with in your professional role as well.

He's not trying to sell to a friend. He's trying to sell to everyone who is following his account and the vast majority of people following his account do so because of his political position and not because of some personal social connection.
Still not an ethics violation. if I'm using my twitter account for work and then use it also to advertise something I want to sell. What recourse does my employer have in a court of law? What is my employer going to tell the judge before he throws the case out?
 
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Equilibrium31

Equilibrium31

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I'm not missing anything. AP is trying to convict on ethics violations that are not there. If he were using his state provided email to promote his son's book, then yes. There is nothing the DOJ is able or can do about him using his twitter feed. if that were true you may as well go ahead and indict 98% of the US population. Everyone in this country first and foremost is a free person. AP would have you believe that that doesn't include POTUS? Learn to think for yourself, everything you've posted is straight bullshit that no free state has the authority of the people to enforce.
AP is not trying to convict anything. It's reporting a story. When big name people do controversial things, they report on it. That's what the news does.

The person that points this out as problematic is Liz Hempowicz from the Project on Government Oversight, a nonpartisan, non-profit organization.

Associated Press said:
That kind of promotional tweet would be a violation of ethics rules if it had come from any federal employee other than the president, said Liz Hempowicz, the director of public policy at the Project on Government Oversight, a nonpartisan government watchdog group.
Still not an ethics violation. if I'm using my twitter account for work and then use it also to advertise something I want to sell. What recourse does my employer have in a court of law? What is my employer going to tell the judge before he throws the case out?
Well, it's **not** and ethics violation, but only because it was the president doing it. However, if you ever do get a job in the federal government, I would suggest you don't do what Trump is doing.
 

Hook_62

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AP is not trying to convict anything. It's reporting a story. When big name people do controversial things, they report on it. That's what the news does.
They're not reporting anything, it's an opinion piece, Journalism is dead. They write this garbage because they know that non thinking individuals will copy it and barf it back up on all their social media sites. By their logic, government, big business and your employer can now hijack your Twitter account and tell you what you can and cannot say on it? Just another erosion of our freedom on the highway to the USSA.

Well, it's **not** and ethics violation, but only because it was the president doing it. However, if you ever do get a job in the federal government, I would suggest you don't do what Trump is doing.
I was in the US Navy for 20 years, now retired. I've been around the world 3 times. I have been to:
Puerto Rico, England, France, Spain, Italy, Turkey, Israel, Africa, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Singapore, Australia, Tasmania, Philippine Islands, China, Hong Kong, Korea and Thailand. I've seen first hand what Socialism is and how people are treated and behave. I was stopped in Singapore at a hotel and told I better cover up my tattoos because the police there burn them off with acid, usually because they are gang related but not always. If people in this country don't start thinking for themselves and start thinking through some of these issues and what it means to a free society. We will fast become like some of the countries that I have been to.

February 7, 2013
No one knows how many laws there are in the United States. Apparently, no one can count that high.
They’ve been accumulating, of course, for more than 200 years. When federal laws were first codified in 1927, they fit into a single volume. By the 1980s, there were 50 volumes of more than 23,000 pages.

And today? Online sources say that no one knows. The Internal Revenue Code alone, first codified in 1874, contains more than 3.4 million words and, if printed 60 lines to the page, is more than 7,500 pages long. There are about 20,000 laws just governing the use and ownership of guns.

New laws mean new crimes. From the start of 2000 through 2007, Congress had created at least 452 new crimes, so that at that time the total number of Federal crimes exceeded 4,450.


Let's add another: Federal Employees are prohibited from plugging friends or relatives books and or writings on their Twitter accounts. "He did what? we need to lock him up and throw away the key!" What a joke.
 
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Equilibrium31

Equilibrium31

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They're not reporting anything, it's an opinion piece, Journalism is dead. They write this garbage because they know that non thinking individuals will copy it and barf it back up on all their social media sites. By their logic, government, big business and your employer can now hijack your Twitter account and tell you what you can and cannot say on it? Just another erosion of our freedom on the highway to the USSA.
An opinion piece would require an actual opinion to be shared from the person writing the story. There isn't any of that. It's reporting something that happened. What happened was Trump used the same Twitter account that he uses for his role as president to make money for his son. A director of a non-partisan watchdog group called that out as a "misuse of public office" that uses his position in the white house to profit his son. That's a very relevant story since Trump is currently facing impeachment for pushing to get Biden investigated for that same sort of ethics situation.

The author never says that the president is unethical. The author never says that Trump is wrong.


I was in the US Navy for 20 years, now retired. I've been around the world 3 times. I have been to:
Puerto Rico, England, France, Spain, Italy, Turkey, Israel, Africa, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Singapore, Australia, Tasmania, Philippine Islands, China, Hong Kong, Korea and Thailand. I've seen first hand what Socialism is and how people are treated and behave. I was stopped in Singapore at a hotel and told I better cover up my tattoos because the police there burn them off with acid, usually because they are gang related but not always. If people in this country don't start thinking for themselves and start thinking through some of these issues and what it means to a free society. We will fast become like some of the countries that I have been to.

February 7, 2013
No one knows how many laws there are in the United States. Apparently, no one can count that high.
They’ve been accumulating, of course, for more than 200 years. When federal laws were first codified in 1927, they fit into a single volume. By the 1980s, there were 50 volumes of more than 23,000 pages.

And today? Online sources say that no one knows. The Internal Revenue Code alone, first codified in 1874, contains more than 3.4 million words and, if printed 60 lines to the page, is more than 7,500 pages long. There are about 20,000 laws just governing the use and ownership of guns.

New laws mean new crimes. From the start of 2000 through 2007, Congress had created at least 452 new crimes, so that at that time the total number of Federal crimes exceeded 4,450.


Let's add another: Federal Employees are prohibited from plugging friends or relatives books and or writings on their Twitter accounts. "He did what? we need to lock him up and throw away the key!" What a joke.
That's a nice story, but the facts are clear and evident, regardless of how many countries you have or haven't visited. You don't even need the AP story that I linked in the original post to see that. You can use the two direct sources (Trump's tweet and the direct, explicit rules from the U.S. Government) to put two and two together.

Hell, even if you don't think that the rule in section 2635.702 that I quoted is a violation because you believe that Trump is using a personal Twitter account (that he has explicitly chosen to utilize as part of his role as president), then I'll do you one better:

Check our 2635.807:
An employee shall not use or permit the use of his Government position or title or any authority associated with his public office in a manner that is intended to coerce or induce another person, including a subordinate, to provide any benefit, financial or otherwise, to himself or to friends, relatives, or persons with whom the employee is affiliated in a nongovernmental capacity.
And on Trump's Twitter account, you will find that this title is in use:
1573225877465.png


If you don't think that there should be an ethics law like this, well, you're entitled to that opinion. However, if that's really what you believe, then I'm surprised I also don't hear you expressing discontent over the push to have Biden investigated for a similar situation.

Personally, I don't think that people should be profiting off their political office.
 

Hook_62

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However, if that's really what you believe, then I'm surprised I also don't hear you expressing discontent over the push to have Biden investigated for a similar situation.

Personally, I don't think that people should be profiting off their political office.
Or you? Trump is corrupt for plugging his son's book? But where are your threads on Biden and his Son for their dealings in Ukraine or the 1.5b from China? Or how about something on HRC and her husband taking untold millions from foreign businesses when she was Secretary of State? (read Clinton Cash by Peter Schweizer). DOJ and FBI officials under former FBI director James Comey engaged in a willful, organized scheme to defraud the FISA court in order to illegally spy on the Trump campaign. Non of this raises a red flag in your mind? But If Trump plugs his Son's book, "crimes have been committed".
 
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Equilibrium31

Equilibrium31

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Or you? Trump is corrupt for plugging his son's book? But where are your threads on Biden and his Son for their dealings in Ukraine or the 1.5b from China? Or how about something on HRC and her husband taking untold millions from foreign businesses when she was Secretary of State? (read Clinton Cash by Peter Schweizer). DOJ and FBI officials under former FBI director James Comey engaged in a willful, organized scheme to defraud the FISA court in order to illegally spy on the Trump campaign. Non of this raises a red flag in your mind? But If Trump plugs his Son's book, "crimes have been committed".
Well, you can see my opinion on Biden with the Ukraine contraversy in this thread:

And if I recall, you should remember this conversation, since it was the thread where you linked the far right, hyperbole-filled video against Hunter Biden.

But here's the summary of my opinions expressed for this issue:
Corruption is never ok, regardless of party is behind it, but there's just no proof that Joe Biden performed any actions in the interest of his son and not the country. His son shouldn't have been involved since this raises questions and suspicions, but suspicion is about the worst thing that is present right now. I'm not against anyone investigating suspicions, but it should be driven by people that don't have a bias and/or reason to benefit from incriminating or absolving him.

You seem to be adding some things about Hillary here for some reason, which I find a bit strange since I'm definitely no fan of Hillary.

However, you're again citing highly biased, far-right sources with a bad history of following the facts. Just look at the link you provided:
Wikipedia said:
He is the president of the Government Accountability Institute (GAI) and senior editor-at-large of far-right media organization Breitbart News...
And feel free to follow the link to Breitbart's Wikipedia page:
Wikipedia said:
Breitbart News has published a number of falsehoods and conspiracy theories, as well as intentionally misleading stories, including claims that Hillary Clinton and the Obama administration supported ISIS
Honestly, when it comes down to Hillary, I don't see her as someone that is clean of corruption or wrong doing, but I don't take every claim about this seriously since there's an immense amount of ridiculous conspiracy theories and outright lies thrown around by her by the far right.


And also feel free to read the second post I made in this thread:

Yea. And it's nothing partisan. There's been a long history of people on both sides of the aisle doing shady shit for a long time, even if the current president is particularly flagrant about it.

There's a long list of people who think that being a Republican or Democrat, Socialist or Capitalist have something to do with being corrupt. In the end though, it just has to do with being powerful enough to get away with it.