Dave Kishpaugh's (Jeep West) geometry correction brackets are now available


David Kishpaugh

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Can of worms. 🙂🤣.

This oughta be interesting.

So..... this is the fix for the can of worms you created as soon as you installed a 2" puck-6" lift on short arms. They even fix the "can of worms" you created by installing a metal cloak or rubicon express long arm system along with teraflex Enduro kit, skyjacker long arms and the rockmen Rockstar kit.

My main focus with this was at 3.5-4" lift with short arms, a stock track bar, stock exhaust, droped belly-flat belly, sye, and fuel tank clearance. We do not need adjustable control arms although they are highly recommended for a much easier installation. Upper arm holes are 7/16 to accommodate currie control arms. There haven't been any issues from having 10mm bolts in them.

Upon installation with short arms, the lower frame mounts have to be redrilled. The lower frame mount goes down 1" but is still basically the same clearance as it was because of how far the factory bracket hangs. The axle end goes up 1 5/8".

Your jeeps front tire will no longer lift off the ground 2ft from moderate throttle on a hard left hand turn off of a stop light. Guys with lsd rear diffs get to drift around corners like driving a camaro with greatly reduced body roll even without a rear sway bar. The front end Bobbing and grasshopper effect.... Gone. The traction and stability is nothing short of amazing.

Rear steer and suspension bind is eliminated in a 12" travel range from a 2" bumpstop extension, using a 30" extended length outboard shock, which translates to a 16.5/17" spring free length depending on the angle the shock is hung.
if your 35" tires are hitting the evap can, it'll clear with properly adjusted arms after installation.

I do not make any front brackets. Any way you cut the mustard, the front end needs a mid arm even if they are only 24" links.
I have messed around with 2" taller axle mounts, 15" front upper and 26" lower arms with great success. It just doesn't compare to having a 3link mid arm.

Rear geometry correction brackets also work good with stock upper lengths 13.25-14.5" running a 22-26" lower arm without redrilling mounts but the pinion angle goes wonky if you are trying to run long travel shocks like the skyjacker long arm system offered. If we could still get a currie "j" arm, the geometry correction would compliment them very well.

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BuildBreakRepeat

Garrett Hoover
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Jan 21, 2019
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Corvallis, Oregon
So..... this is the fix for the can of worms you created as soon as you installed a 2" puck-6" lift on short arms. They even fix the "can of worms" you created by installing a metal cloak or rubicon express long arm system along with teraflex Enduro kit, skyjacker long arms and the rockmen Rockstar kit.

My main focus with this was at 3.5-4" lift with short arms, a stock track bar, stock exhaust, droped belly-flat belly, sye, and fuel tank clearance. We do not need adjustable control arms although they are highly recommended for a much easier installation. Upper arm holes are 7/16 to accommodate currie control arms. There haven't been any issues from having 10mm bolts in them.

Upon installation with short arms, the lower frame mounts have to be redrilled. The lower frame mount goes down 1" but is still basically the same clearance as it was because of how far the factory bracket hangs. The axle end goes up 1 5/8".

Your jeeps front tire will no longer lift off the ground 2ft from moderate throttle on a hard left hand turn off of a stop light. Guys with lsd rear diffs get to drift around corners like driving a camaro with greatly reduced body roll even without a rear sway bar. The front end Bobbing and grasshopper effect.... Gone. The traction and stability is nothing short of amazing.

Rear steer and suspension bind is eliminated in a 12" travel range from a 2" bumpstop extension, using a 30" extended length outboard shock, which translates to a 16.5/17" spring free length depending on the angle the shock is hung.
if your 35" tires are hitting the evap can, it'll clear with properly adjusted arms after installation.

I do not make any front brackets. Any way you cut the mustard, the front end needs a mid arm even if they are only 24" links.
I have messed around with 2" taller axle mounts, 15" front upper and 26" lower arms with great success. It just doesn't compare to having a 3link mid arm.

Rear geometry correction brackets also work good with stock upper lengths 13.25-14.5" running a 22-26" lower arm without redrilling mounts but the pinion angle goes wonky if you are trying to run long travel shocks like the skyjacker long arm system offered. If we could still get a currie "j" arm, the geometry correction would compliment them very well.

View attachment 204787

View attachment 204788

View attachment 204789

View attachment 204790

View attachment 204791
Thanks you Dave for your insight and awesome products. I will be there in December with a friend doing the geometry correction and am excited to see the results.
 
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David Kishpaugh

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Joined
Jan 20, 2016
Messages
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Location
Estacada, OR
This is a currie inspired set of arms I built in 2017 but I have never had time to follow through on putting them under a rig to experiment with the upper brackets.

FB_IMG_1605945228274.jpg


FB_IMG_1605945260046.jpg
 

BuildBreakRepeat

Garrett Hoover
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Joined
Jan 21, 2019
Messages
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Corvallis, Oregon
No, they weren't flawed, I think they were improperly used/installed due to the geometry change they created on the axle end, the upper arms also needed to be relocated.
You don’t think the loss in ground clearance was an issue? Just what I’ve heard in the past, never got my hand on a set. Makes sense that proper mounts could fix it.
 

AndyG

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Jul 30, 2018
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Alabama
So..... this is the fix for the can of worms you created as soon as you installed a 2" puck-6" lift on short arms. They even fix the "can of worms" you created by installing a metal cloak or rubicon express long arm system along with teraflex Enduro kit, skyjacker long arms and the rockmen Rockstar kit.

My main focus with this was at 3.5-4" lift with short arms, a stock track bar, stock exhaust, droped belly-flat belly, sye, and fuel tank clearance. We do not need adjustable control arms although they are highly recommended for a much easier installation. Upper arm holes are 7/16 to accommodate currie control arms. There haven't been any issues from having 10mm bolts in them.

Upon installation with short arms, the lower frame mounts have to be redrilled. The lower frame mount goes down 1" but is still basically the same clearance as it was because of how far the factory bracket hangs. The axle end goes up 1 5/8".

Your jeeps front tire will no longer lift off the ground 2ft from moderate throttle on a hard left hand turn off of a stop light. Guys with lsd rear diffs get to drift around corners like driving a camaro with greatly reduced body roll even without a rear sway bar. The front end Bobbing and grasshopper effect.... Gone. The traction and stability is nothing short of amazing.

Rear steer and suspension bind is eliminated in a 12" travel range from a 2" bumpstop extension, using a 30" extended length outboard shock, which translates to a 16.5/17" spring free length depending on the angle the shock is hung.
if your 35" tires are hitting the evap can, it'll clear with properly adjusted arms after installation.

I do not make any front brackets. Any way you cut the mustard, the front end needs a mid arm even if they are only 24" links.
I have messed around with 2" taller axle mounts, 15" front upper and 26" lower arms with great success. It just doesn't compare to having a 3link mid arm.

Rear geometry correction brackets also work good with stock upper lengths 13.25-14.5" running a 22-26" lower arm without redrilling mounts but the pinion angle goes wonky if you are trying to run long travel shocks like the skyjacker long arm system offered. If we could still get a currie "j" arm, the geometry correction would compliment them very well.

View attachment 204787

View attachment 204788

View attachment 204789

View attachment 204790

View attachment 204791
So..... this is the fix for the can of worms you created as soon as you installed a 2" puck-6" lift on short arms. They even fix the "can of worms" you created by installing a metal cloak or rubicon express long arm system along with teraflex Enduro kit, skyjacker long arms and the rockmen Rockstar kit.

My main focus with this was at 3.5-4" lift with short arms, a stock track bar, stock exhaust, droped belly-flat belly, sye, and fuel tank clearance. We do not need adjustable control arms although they are highly recommended for a much easier installation. Upper arm holes are 7/16 to accommodate currie control arms. There haven't been any issues from having 10mm bolts in them.

Upon installation with short arms, the lower frame mounts have to be redrilled. The lower frame mount goes down 1" but is still basically the same clearance as it was because of how far the factory bracket hangs. The axle end goes up 1 5/8".

Your jeeps front tire will no longer lift off the ground 2ft from moderate throttle on a hard left hand turn off of a stop light. Guys with lsd rear diffs get to drift around corners like driving a camaro with greatly reduced body roll even without a rear sway bar. The front end Bobbing and grasshopper effect.... Gone. The traction and stability is nothing short of amazing.

Rear steer and suspension bind is eliminated in a 12" travel range from a 2" bumpstop extension, using a 30" extended length outboard shock, which translates to a 16.5/17" spring free length depending on the angle the shock is hung.
if your 35" tires are hitting the evap can, it'll clear with properly adjusted arms after installation.

I do not make any front brackets. Any way you cut the mustard, the front end needs a mid arm even if they are only 24" links.
I have messed around with 2" taller axle mounts, 15" front upper and 26" lower arms with great success. It just doesn't compare to having a 3link mid arm.

Rear geometry correction brackets also work good with stock upper lengths 13.25-14.5" running a 22-26" lower arm without redrilling mounts but the pinion angle goes wonky if you are trying to run long travel shocks like the skyjacker long arm system offered. If we could still get a currie "j" arm, the geometry correction would compliment them very well.

View attachment 204787

View attachment 204788

View attachment 204789

View attachment 204790

View attachment 204791
There you go. Worms are served
.....y'all argue with that.

His Moog K-7252 track bar mod is fantastic too.
 

pcoplin

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Supporting Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2018
Messages
474
Location
Santiam, OR
No, they weren't flawed, I think they were improperly used/installed due to the geometry change they created on the axle end, the upper arms also needed to be relocated.
They sold a short arm upper triangulated kit with the J-arms if my memory serves. I know several people who had them, but dont remember any geometry characteristics.
 

David Kishpaugh

TJ Guru
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2016
Messages
156
Location
Estacada, OR
They sold a short arm upper triangulated kit with the J-arms if my memory serves. I know several people who had them, but dont remember any geometry characteristics.
I never saw the triangulation kit if it existed. I do know for a fact that if a guy used the j arm with a full traction or rk short arm trilink, the result would be about the same as the geometry correction im doing because the lower axle mount relocated to the center of the axle tube 2" higher, and made the arm about 6" longer than in stock mounts.
 

David Kishpaugh

TJ Guru
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2016
Messages
156
Location
Estacada, OR
You don’t think the loss in ground clearance was an issue? Just what I’ve heard in the past, never got my hand on a set. Makes sense that proper mounts could fix it.

There no loss. The arm doesn't hang below the factory frame mount and its raised on the axle end. Still more clearance than a long or even a mid arm at that point besides a bracket below the frame to run into.
 
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Blackjack

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Joined
Dec 16, 2018
Messages
565
Location
Kenai
The kit comes with lower frame mounts and upper axle mounts?
Nothing for the lower as you just have to redrill the existing mounts. At the minimum you need new upper axle side brackets and Dave is also making upgraded upper frame side mounts.
 

Blackjack

TJ Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 16, 2018
Messages
565
Location
Kenai
I never saw the triangulation kit if it existed. I do know for a fact that if a guy used the j arm with a full traction or rk short arm trilink, the result would be about the same as the geometry correction im doing because the lower axle mount relocated to the center of the axle tube 2" higher, and made the arm about 6" longer than in stock mounts.
Dave the triangulation kit included a new 9inch with the brackets welded on and the upper arms were canted to still fit the factory frame sided brackets that were reinforced.
 

Blackjack

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Joined
Dec 16, 2018
Messages
565
Location
Kenai
DOH, I was in a hurry and mixed it up with this one.

View attachment 204869
Ok so that is indeed a TJ. The lowers are redrilled:

1 inch down on the frame side
1 5/8 up on th axle side

The axle side uppers are relocated up. Now David will have to tell you how much his brackets move the upper but on the Nth Degree brackets I run it is either 2.5 or 3.5 inches.

So if you look at it this way what is being done is taking the control arms at four inches of lift and returning them to operating angles about where they would be with a budget boost. This moves the instant center forward, reduces roll steer, and by flattening the links some you can in most instances move the axle back in the wheel well a touch.
 
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