Help diagnosing death wobble on 2004 Wrangler

S

Shawn B

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Aug 3, 2019
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Location
Minneapolis
I know this has been talked to "death" but I'm at a loss of what to do next. I've read several Death Wobble posts and I'm not sure of what to do. Over the last 3 months the wobble has been getting worse. As of now at 55 mph + when I hit the slightest bump on the highway the steering wheel shakes out of my hand so hard that the only way to quit the shaking is to pull over and come almost to a stop. The tires are shaking so violently at times you can hear the rubber screeching back and forth on the highway pavement.

Its an 04 Wrangler with a 4" Rough Country lift installed 4 years ago. It drove regularly up to 80 mph on the freeway smoothly until 3 months ago. Upon doing the dry steering test there was no perceivable movement in anything but the ball joints and we saw the axle joints were loose. We replaced the ball joints with the OE Spicer ball joints and new axle joints. The ball joints are tight and the axle joints move freely. We have had apart twice just to confirm the axle joints are freely moving. In the last month we have replaced all of the tie rods/steering and track bar twice just as attempt to get rid of this wobble. The control arms are tight. There are the correct wheel centering wings centering the wheels tightly on the hubs.

We have aligned it here several times and its all in spec. We have tried several combinations with caster ranging from 5.5 to 7.9 and we are currently at 6.4.

As for the seemingly most common issue, the tires: The tires are 285/70R17 which have been on it for the last 4 years without issue. We have rotated and road force balanced AND,,,,,,, just in an effort to rule out the tires being the issue I replaced them with another new set of tires this week (not cheap tires either) and the new tires balanced out to zero. Installed them on the Jeep and test drove it. It started its wobble within the 1st 1/2 mile exactly the same as it has for the last couple months. Now that i've ruled out the tires, nothing seems to be loose, and much has been replaced several times since this wobble started like all the steering linkage and track bar what do I do next?

I'm hesitant to believe the issue is my set up combination of lift / tires / wheels since its been the same for the last 4 years without ever having a wobble.



Thank you in advance for any help you could offer.

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Could your upper track bar bolt hole gotten wallowed out where it connects to the frame? Last time I got death wobble was when my upper track bar bolt was loose...
 
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IPerkWVU said:
Could your upper track bar bolt hole gotten wallowed out where it connects to the frame? Last time I got death wobble was when my upper track bar bolt was loose...
Click to expand...

I have it here at the shop now. Took the track bar back off. Everything tight. Put back in and just test drove. Same wobble as soon at I hit 50. ????
 
I'd be looking to the front tires being imperfectly balanced which is a common trigger for DW. It does not matter in the least if they have been balanced recently, not many tire shops give their techs enough time to balance big tires perfectly as the type of front-end our TJs has requires.
 
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I've balanced the tires and replaced the tires with new tires 3 days ago which balanced to zero. I run a shop so my lead tech has had plenty of time to do it right with a very good balancer. I know the tire situation is the most likely culprit but I dont know what more to do with the tires. I replaced them with new tires and balanced to zero and it still wobbles just the same with new tires. And I put in a 3rd new track bar 2 hours ago.... Same results.
 
Shawn B said:
I've balanced the tires and replaced the tires with new tires 3 days ago which balanced to zero. I run a shop so my lead tech has had plenty of time to do it right with a very good balancer. I know the tire situation is the most likely culprit but I dont know what more to do with the tires. I replaced them with new tires and balanced to zero and it still wobbles just the same with new tires. And I put in a 3rd new track bar 2 hours ago.... Same results.
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Sir ,what brand track bar is in the TJ, and have you put the same brand in each time ?
 
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I know you say your control arms are tight but if everything else is okay that's where I'd focus next. Be really really sure they are in great condition. After four years and bouts with bad balance they could be suffering. I don't know much about RC arms but stock arms that look good can be crap.

If the tires run smooth and then go into wobble after a bump I wouldn't really consider that a balance issue but I guess opinions vary on that.
 
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Simple test to rule out upper control arm bushings. Set the toe out to 5/8"-3/4". Go for a test drive that is known to produce the symptoms. If the onset speed or severity changed for the better, then the upper control arms are highly suspect. I know I don't need to tell a shop this but don't leave it toed out.

Also try and define the exact onset situation. 50 mph and still going straight or that speed and going into a curve in the road or hitting a bump.
 
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The best way to check lower control arms is actively . Roll it and slam the brakes and watch the connections .

There are 2 things that stand out here -

It is speed specific - normally that's tire

And bump activated - that is normally track bar related .

He could have a bent yoke or something weird , I might would pull the front shaft just to say I did .

He's been thorough , but this is what he needs to look at harder:

A 4" rough country lift comes with a dropped pitman arm , and sure enough , he has one on the TJ. That needs to go , bump steer isn't going to help .

Secondly , I can't see his upper track bar mount , but I bet if it's dry tested ,he's got some movement he doesn't realize . 1/16" in on direction is 1/8 both ways , and so forth ...that will rock your world.

His track bar may be a heim joint type , and it appears there is no dropped mount (that type isn't compatible with rough country dropped mount anyway , so that's actually good ) but a heim joint type has a longer bolt that tends to rock back and forth if even slightly loose

Think of the wind blowing a tree, little movement at the base , 6-8 feet at the top. That principal applies to any track bar bolt that has a stand off type design.
 
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Also, while it has nothing to do with death wobble, you ought to get rid of that dropped pitman arm as it's doing you more harm than good.

I can't tell if the track bar has a drop bracket or not.
 
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AndyG said:
Sir ,what brand track bar is in the TJ, and have you put the same brand in each time ?
Click to expand...

3 track bars over 2 different brands from Napa which is also what we installed new when we did the suspension lift 4 years ago including 1 today with no difference. I see Quadratec sells an adjustable track bar. Any benefit to that? And thanks for any input.
 
pagrey said:
I know you say your control arms are tight but if everything else is okay that's where I'd focus next. Be really really sure they are in great condition. After four years and bouts with bad balance they could be suffering. I don't know much about RC arms but stock arms that look good can be crap.

If the tires run smooth and then go into wobble after a bump I wouldn't really consider that a balance issue but I guess opinions vary on that.
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The Rough Country kit comes with new lower arms which are different than stock. They are longer and have a designed slight bend to them. They seem tight. As for the upper arms they are not part of the kit and were OE. I replaced them about 2 hours ago. No difference upon test driving after. The new uppers came with new bushing at the body end but no new bushings at the axle end. I reused those lower bushings for now. It seems the upper control arm bushings at the axle are very difficult to remove and we had some time constraints today.

I would agree about the balance in my opinion. Multiple different sets of tires including a brand new set this week made zero difference. I feel if it's a balance issue, the new set would at least have made some sort of change of the onset of the wobble. It didn't change at all.
 
Chris said:
Also, while it has nothing to do with death wobble, you ought to get rid of that dropped pitman arm as it's doing you more harm than good.

I can't tell if the track bar has a drop bracket or not.
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The track bar does have a drop bracket. I'd be happy to swap the drop pitman that came in the kit as a test, it's just I dont know how that can be the problem. That's the pitman that's been on there for 4 years with no wobble at all.
 
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What brand track bar is on the vehicle now ? Can you post a pic of each end .

We can fix this together most likely .

You have been very thorough , and are using good equipment and people it appears , and I commend you for that , death wobble is typically hard to diagnose because something minute isn't being seen ....and it takes movement to start it , and the tires almost always do that , and it can be the slightest worn component that allows it to continue and /or magnify the movement .

The track bars' job is to keep the axle centered , and if the bar is loose , it is trying to do that versus the energy of the movement , and it will shake your eye teeth out.
 
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Shawn B said:
The track bar does have a drop bracket. I'd be happy to swap the drop pitman that came in the kit as a test, it's just I dont know how that can be the problem. That's the pitman that's been on there for 4 years with no wobble at all.
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The dropped bracket can be the issue , I had to weld mine . The track bar gets sooo much leverage with that set up.
 
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A rough country dropped track bar mount is only designed to receive a rough country track bar .

I'm not saying another track bar installation is impossible , but you have mixed components and that can be a problem.
 
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mrblaine said:
Simple test to rule out upper control arm bushings. Set the toe out to 5/8"-3/4". Go for a test drive that is known to produce the symptoms. If the onset speed or severity changed for the better, then the upper control arms are highly suspect. I know I don't need to tell a shop this but don't leave it toed out.

Also try and define the exact onset situation. 50 mph and still going straight or that speed and going into a curve in the road or hitting a bump.
Click to expand...

I can go 50 or even 55 on perfectly smooth pavement but as soon as there is a even a little bump it starts and builds over the course of 10 seconds or so until it shakes so hard I cant steer. The wobble onset is even faster if I'm going around a minor curve and hit the smallest bump at 50+.

I will try your toe out test monday

And thank you all for any help or insight you can offer. I really appreciate it!!!
 
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