Death wobble to small wobble?

[Mcnenc1]

I know this question had been beaten too many times but I’m having trouble and can not find a solid answer...

Going 70mph in sunny hot Florida I hit a pot hole and experienced full on death wobble. Cool. The same day I ordered a new track bar, steering stabilizer, tie rod, and drag link. Installed with the help of a buddy and a few beers and back on the road with new gear and an alignment.

following three days...
No full on death wobble but definitely some play under there. hit a few pot holes, and the under carriage just shakes but not bad enough to be considered a death wobble.
Next day I tighten the track bar to 155 foot lbs (recommendation) and drove.
Not apt of play under there however, at 50-58 Mph, even on smooth road the steering column, and under neath shake/wobble again not enough to pull over but enough to make your butthole tighten.

I am considering replacing the FRONT TOP/BOTTOM control arms but haven’t decided yet...

Also, the mounting hole for the track bar that goes into the frame (passenger side) SEEMS to NOT be warped... it looks perfectly round and smooth...

side note: I am having an issue filling the new bushings with grease... the new zero fitting rejects most of my grease and the bushings aren’t all “plump” could this be the culprit??If you think it is, how do I get the zerk and new bushings to take the grease?

thoughts?

 

[pagrey]

If the control arms are original it's a great idea to replace them. They often don't look bad when they are shot. You can test the uppers by setting the toe neutral or slightly less toe-in. If this lessens the wobble it points to worn uppers. Personally if everything else seems solid I'd replace them. They really tighten up the suspension more than almost anything else.

You didn't mention tire balance at all, I assume you have checked your tire balance and rotated the tires to rule them out. They are item number one on the basic death wobble check list.

 

[03coloradowrangler]

a last shot effort to my speed related wobble after replacing every front end component minus the tires & u joints, i lowered the tire pressure to 26 from 31 and all my wobbles stopped.

 

[Mcnenc1]

a last shot effort to my speed related wobble after replacing every front end component minus the tires & u joints, i lowered the tire pressure to 26 from 31 and all my wobbles stopped.

Sadly I have been riding on 26psi for awhile

 

[Mcnenc1]

If the control arms are original it's a great idea to replace them. They often don't look bad when they are shot. You can test the uppers by setting the toe neutral or slightly less toe-in. If this lessens the wobble it points to worn uppers. Personally if everything else seems solid I'd replace them. They really tighten up the suspension more than almost anything else.

You didn't mention tire balance at all, I assume you have checked your tire balance and rotated the tires to rule them out. They are item number one on the basic death wobble check list.

Tires have been balanced... control arms are the original with 150k on them

 

[Mcnenc1]

Tires have been balanced... control arms are the original with 150k on them

You recommend any specific control arm? I have 2.5 inch lift

 

[pagrey]

Stock replacements are fine. Rockauto.com has good prices on Moog arms. Personally I'd just buy the bushings and press them in yourself. You have to do the two in the Dana 30 which are the difficult ones anyway. When you finish those the arms will seem easy. I just use a ball joint press which you can rent for free and sockets jammed in the arms to keep them from collapsing. Complete arms will save you some work and there's nothing wrong with that especially if you are new to wrenching.

 

[Mcnenc1]

Stock replacements are fine. Rockauto.com has good prices on Moog arms. Personally I'd just buy the bushings and press them in yourself. You have to do the two in the Dana 30 which are the difficult ones anyway. When you finish those the arms will seem easy. I just use a ball joint press which you can rent for free and sockets jammed in the arms to keep them from collapsing. Complete arms will save you some work and there's nothing wrong with that especially if you are new to wrenching.

I would like to learn as much as possible and frankly that sounds wot more fun haha I’ll definitely order some bushings then and rent the press.
Do you know the ft pounds on the track bar? I’ve seen a link somewhere around here but can’t seem to find it and it gave a list of everything you can torque and have the specs of each in ft/pounds. Thanks!

 

[AndyG]

Grease is the word(Frankie Valli) , but not the answer.

If it’s a stock track bar , there is a thread on all torque specs.


Dry test everything and watch every part close.


Remove the Zerk and press grease in it or heat it to get the dried grease out and reinstall or replace .


It’s time for control arm bushings likely , and you need to rotate the tires and see what happens . ..that will tell you if it’s a tire related, like a broke belt .

 

[JMT]

Tires, tires, tires. Your situation is speed dependent. So you can throw money elsewhere, but tires are your issue.
Stock control arms. Each one is only $25. Buy new and be done with it.

 

[Goatman]

I've had zerks that simply refuse to allow grease in. Try replacing them with new ones. Buy a kit of them. I've also had some refuse grease, but put them on a different point and they work perfectly!? So maybe just swapping them around could work. Remove one and see if you can get it to work while removed. You'll need to hold on to the zerk with some needle nose pliers to do this.

 

[AndyG]

Tires, tires, tires. Your situation is speed dependent. So you can throw money elsewhere, but tires are your issue.
Stock control arms. Each one is only $25. But new and be done with it.

Well said .

Nothing else is subject to change with speed up front ..tires are , and they are almost always the cause , and loose parts can then exaggerate the problem .

It doesn't take both , because the front end is designed to move back and forth anyway (steering wise) and the track bar stabilizes/and centers the front axle as it moves up and down .

I don't know how many speed specific wobble threads we see

 

[Mcnenc1]

Tires, tires, tires. Your situation is speed dependent. So you can throw money elsewhere, but tires are your issue.
Stock control arms. Each one is only $25. Buy new and be done with it.

Just ordered new tires and front lower and upper control arms. Once everything is on I’ll come back here and let you guys know if it was fixed

 

[Mcnenc1]

Well said .

Nothing else is subject to change with speed up front ..tires are , and they are almost always the cause , and loose parts can then exaggerate the problem .

It doesn't take both , because the front end is designed to move back and forth anyway (steering wise) and the track bar stabilizes/and centers the front axle as it moves up and down .

I don't know how many speed specific wobble threads we see

Still new to the Jeep and wrenching world. Learn most of everything here and YouTube. It’s reassuring to see you’re also on board with the tires being the main culprit. Tire condition is terrible and probably illegal not to merino dangerous if the little to no tread I have. Tires and front lower/upper control arms have been ordered

 

[AndyG]

Still new to the Jeep and wrenching world. Learn most of everything here and YouTube. It’s reassuring to see you’re also on board with the tires being the main culprit. Tire condition is terrible and probably illegal not to merino dangerous if the little to no tread I have. Tires and front lower/upper control arms have been ordered

Honestly , if the tires are shot ...I run into that often ...they compromise everything on a little TJ..steering , ride, handling , tracking, noise , vibration .. especially if larger than stock.

I bought an 06 recently , and it had awful , 35" tires, a history of death wobble , twin stabilizers ...they were among the first things I changed ..smooth as silk now

 

[Don Ashcraft]

I was having death wobble and turned out that a new set of tires made a HUGE difference. After getting balanced tires I'd say 80-90% of my wobble was gone. I did need to update my steering though. Tie rods were either bad or headed there, track bar was sloppy and the PO had installed the stabilizer incorrectly making it pretty much useless. After replacing all that my wobble was gone.
I'm replacing the front and back control arms now because they were original and pretty shot. They didn't seem to effect my wobble really though. I'd still replace them if they're the original. I found the that Summit had the best price for stock replacements.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...LlFwraCuc30do3Ygni9Or7WN9R56DpiBoCapUQAvD_BwE
Rears were fairly straight forward and easy. The front arms are a PITA. Be prepared for the lower front cam bolts to be seized. Might need cut out. If so no biggy, just be ready for it.

 

[AndyG]

I was having death wobble and turned out that a new set of tires made a HUGE difference. After getting balanced tires I'd say 80-90% of my wobble was gone. I did need to update my steering though. Tie rods were either bad or headed there, track bar was sloppy and the PO had installed the stabilizer incorrectly making it pretty much useless. After replacing all that my wobble was gone.
I'm replacing the front and back control arms now because they were original and pretty shot. They didn't seem to effect my wobble really though. I'd still replace them if they're the original. I found the that Summit had the best price for stock replacements.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...LlFwraCuc30do3Ygni9Or7WN9R56DpiBoCapUQAvD_BwE
Rears were fairly straight forward and easy. The front arms are a PITA. Be prepared for the lower front cam bolts to be seized. Might need cut out. If so no biggy, just be ready for it.

This is such a good post....

And real typical of what can need done to get one of these back to its original performance

Tires can easily get to a point that you really can't get them balanced perfectly or even if the machine shows good balance they can have feathering, weak belts and all sorts of issues that vary with speed and pressure...

There's nothing faulty with the front end design of a TJ.. a coil spring /track bar front end can be found on vehicles all over the world in massive numbers.

The post above is a good example of how the tires can generate the problem and whatever state the front end components are in can play into the severity...by however much movement they allow.

There is no substitute for a good tight well align front end and quality, well balanced tires.

 

[Bootheel Boy]

I fought a wobble from 50-55mph for years. Changed tie rods, both track bars, upper and lower control arms, even ball joints. The tires had been rotated and balanced at least 3 times. Each part changed or tire balance things got slightly better but wouldn’t completely fix the problem and eventually come back. It was suggested by someone that I rotate one side of my Jeeps tires back to front, front to back. Then take a drive to see if anything changes. If not rotate the other side. Turned out one tire was bad and must have always ended up on the front during rotation and balances. As soon as I switched the tires my front end wobble quit and a shake can be felt in the rear.

 

[AndyG]

Here are the reasons that this issue is commonly seen on this forum...

1. a TJ is a very light vehicle and that combined with oversized tires needs considered..light vehicles shake easier ,big tires push them around and wear components faster , and big tires are harder to balance ...plus there is more tire..that's more to go wrong in a large sense. Pick up a mounted stock tire and 12.5 x33" tire ..the difference is notable. Just remember the contrast here..a tire big enough for a 3/4 ton truck on a 1/4 ton vehicle.

2. People tend to abuse jeeps. Even a good old trail ride can be extreme , and axle flanges get bent , weights knocked off, beer spilled..all sorts of near catastrophic things happen.

3. People try to go cheap on hobby vehicles , so they mount tires themselves, buy cheap parts , and do all kinds of crap. More notably , they tend to only do what they can afford which means one tie rod end will get replaced in one won't and 30,000 miles later you have a tie rod end that has some wear and one that has a ton of wear....all this variation is why there are so many different death wobble formula combinations that all result in the same thing. Tires that shake the vehicle and components that allow it.

4. Shops don't take balance as seriously as we need often. Sorry , but a big tire on a light vehicle has to great.

5. It is misunderstood ..you can't mask it or control it with dual stabilizers for example...and if you do all that happens is the root cause is getting worse every revolution of the tire probably and eventually it comes back with a vengeance.

I have even seen post where people think it is a genetic problem in some year models...practically any four wheeled vehicle made , including a shopping cart can have it.

Understand it , embrace it , and you can eliminate it .

Try to remember in all of this...that you can have varying degrees of calls such as a low tire or a slightly out of balance tire or a tremendously bad tire and varying degrees of things that allow the movement to be excessive... So think of it as a sliding scale...we could get a parking lot full of TJ's together and I guarantee you that you would be hard-pressed to find two that are in identical condition in those categories.... Unless every vehicle is brand-new it's going to be in varying degrees of wear . ... That's why you have to be very thorough.
By thorough, I don't mean throwing parts at it but I do mean diligent in dry testing and looking at every component, bolt and mounting point.


Most of the time it can take days or weeks to find it and a few minutes to fix it.

I will say for my experience that a stock TJ rarely ever has it and when you start getting underneath one and looking at the condition of the components even if it has 90,000 or a hundred thousand plus miles you will be surprised at how tight it is compared to one that is lifted and has large tires with less miles sometimes... especially if it was wheeled hard.

 

[Mcnenc1]

Here are the reasons that this issue is commonly seen on this forum...

1. a TJ is a very light vehicle and that combined with oversized tires needs considered..light vehicles shake easier ,big tires push them around and wear components faster , and big tires are harder to balance ...plus there is more tire..that's more to go wrong in a large sense. Pick up a mounted stock tire and 12.5 x33" tire ..the difference is notable. Just remember the contrast here..a tire big enough for a 3/4 ton truck on a 1/4 ton vehicle.

2. People tend to abuse jeeps. Even a good old trail ride can be extreme , and axle flanges get bent , weights knocked off, beer spilled..all sorts of near catastrophic things happen.

3. People try to go cheap on hobby vehicles , so they mount tires themselves, buy cheap parts , and do all kinds of crap. More notably , they tend to only do what they can afford which means one tie rod end will get replaced in one won't and 30,000 miles later you have a tie rod end that has some wear and one that has a ton of wear....all this variation is why there are so many different death wobble formula combinations that all result in the same thing. Tires that shake the vehicle and components that allow it.

4. Shops don't take balance as seriously as we need often. Sorry , but a big tire on a light vehicle has to great.

5. It is misunderstood ..you can't mask it or control it with dual stabilizers for example...and if you do all that happens is the root cause is getting worse every revolution of the tire probably and eventually it comes back with a vengeance.

I have even seen post where people think it is a genetic problem in some year models...practically any four wheeled vehicle made , including a shopping cart can have it.

Understand it , embrace it , and you can eliminate it .

Try to remember in all of this...that you can have varying degrees of calls such as a low tire or a slightly out of balance tire or a tremendously bad tire and varying degrees of things that allow the movement to be excessive... So think of it as a sliding scale...we could get a parking lot full of TJ's together and I guarantee you that you would be hard-pressed to find two that are in identical condition in those categories.... Unless every vehicle is brand-new it's going to be in varying degrees of wear . ... That's why you have to be very thorough.
By thorough, I don't mean throwing parts at it but I do mean diligent in dry testing and looking at every component, bolt and mounting point.


Most of the time it can take days or weeks to find it and a few minutes to fix it.

I will say for my experience that a stock TJ rarely ever has it and when you start getting underneath one and looking at the condition of the components even if it has 90,000 or a hundred thousand plus miles you will be surprised at how tight it is compared to one that is lifted and has large tires with less miles sometimes... especially if it was wheeled hard.

This is a great response and opened my eyes some. Thank you for taking the time to write all of that! I will definitely heed your words, thanks again