Do you think the Wrangler will ever have IFS?

jodomcfrodo said:
Wrangler sales have skyrocketed in the past few years because of the JKU. The 4 door version made the Jeep a practical vehicle for non-offroad people and I believe that Jeep had to make the 4 door to keep Wranglers relevant. How many 2 door JK's do you see driving around? In my opinion, there are two types of Wrangler buyers, a small amount are off-road enthusiasts and a larger amount are people who want to look cool in a Wrangler. People are going to start to realize that buying a Wrangler for daily driving makes no sense once the "coolness factor" wears off. Therefore, Jeep will have to make the Wrangler better for daily driving.
Click to expand...

No one can argue that the 4 door Wrangler is what really put the Wrangler on the map for the masses. You hardly see 2 door models, and with the new JLs, they even delayed the release of the 2 door model until after the 4 door, and I have no doubt whatsoever that this is because the 4 door drastically outsells the 2 door.

I'd bet dollars to donuts that if Jeep had never introduced a 4 door Wrangler, the Wrangler wouldn't be nearly as successful now as it currently is. I'm not saying they wouldn't sell 2 door models, I just mean it wouldn't be on the level that it is with the 4 door models.

Like you said, the 4 door made the Wrangler an accessible vehicle for almost everyone, whereas the 2 door had a very limited market by comparison.
 
Apparently the JL is just as comfortable a ride as any other SUV these days. I've not ridden in one myself but a few friends have and they all say the same thing. So apparently it is possible to make a solid axle vehicle ride just as well as an ifs one. Now the flip side is it will probably never be as good as a range rover or merc but it doesn't have to be in its price point. Mileage requirements may kill it but who knows. Jeep has used aluminum axles before, and aluminum tub would save lots of weight compared to steel just like Ford did with the F150.

—
There must have been a time
when we could have said no.
 
Chris said:
Precisely. I'm not entirely sure what the government rules and regulations are with new auto manufacturing, but I know it continues to get more and more strict with each passing year. They've got to hit MPG requirements, efficiency requirements, weight, etc.

The new Wranglers have an 8 speed automatic, and my understanding is they did that purely to squeeze more MPGs out of it.
Click to expand...

I know it’s a little off topic from the IFC but what about that variable speed transmission FWD on the fly that’s in the small SUV Jeep. I can’t remember the name but my in laws have one. I don’t know how effective it is from a wheeling standpoint.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2005 RHD TJ Sport
2010 BMW 528xi
 
Shane Mckinley said:
I know it’s a little off topic from the IFC but what about that variable speed transmission FWD on the fly that’s in the small SUV Jeep. I can’t remember the name but my in laws have one. I don’t know how effective it is from a wheeling standpoint.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2005 RHD TJ Sport
2010 BMW 528xi
Click to expand...

I think you mean the CVT. Our 2015 Subaru Outback has one in it. I LOVE that transmission big time. It's absolutely amazing. I'm not sure how well it would hold up off-road, but on-road it's amazing!
 
Chris said:
I think you mean the CVT. Our 2015 Subaru Outback has one in it. I LOVE that transmission big time. It's absolutely amazing. I'm not sure how well it would hold up off-road, but on-road it's amazing!
Click to expand...

How is it in the snow? I had a friend with a forester and it wouldn't climb out of even the smallest of holes created by snow melt (even in low range). The CVT would just stall out and he'd need a tug. He even got stuck in his own driveway a few times. I'm fairly sure that there was just something wrong with his but that has always made me a bit weary of CVTs.

I have a bit of experience with mechanically controlled CVT's offroad as the baja SAE team at my university uses them for our cars (picture of a typical car attached below). From what I can tell, I definitely wouldn't want to be rock crawling with one. I don't know if I'd trust the belt from slipping when I'm in the middle of a steep climb. While I'm sure actual car companies would have a more sophisticated design than we do, the fact is that all the power must be translated through a belt that is only held by clamping force. I'm also not sure what advantage a CVT would bring offroad. Unless you can manually lock the CVT somehow (is that a thing in CVT cars?), constant shifting would be a detriment when spinning tires in mud or when trying to get up a slippery hill. I'm also not sure how well a CVT could engine brake when going downhill. I've never driven an actual car with a CVT so I can't really speak on those questions.

2013BajaSAE.jpg
 
Last edited:
jodomcfrodo said:
How is it in the snow? I had a friend with a forester and it wouldn't climb out of even the smallest of holes created by snow melt (even in low range). The CVT would just stall out and he'd need a tug. He even got stuck in his own driveway a few times. I'm fairly sure that there was just something wrong with his but that has always made me a bit weary of CVTs.

I have a bit of experience with mechanically controlled CVT's offroad as the baja SAE team at my university uses them for our cars (picture of a typical car attached below). From what I can tell, I definitely wouldn't want to be rock crawling with one. I don't know if I'd trust the belt from slipping when I'm in the middle of a steep climb. While I'm sure actual car companies would have a more sophisticated design than we do, the fact is that all the power must be translated through a belt that is only held by clamping force. I'm also not sure what advantage a CVT would bring offroad. Unless you can manually lock the CVT somehow (is that a thing in CVT cars?), constant shifting would be a detriment when spinning tires in mud or when trying to get up a slippery hill. I'm also not sure how well a CVT could engine brake when going downhill. I've never driven an actual car with a CVT so I can't really speak on those questions.
Click to expand...

I haven't ever gotten it stuck in the snow, but I've driven it in the snow storms we've had and it's never had a problem with traction or anything. So I guess I can't comment on that part. I just know that I love how the transmission doesn't shift at all and is completely seamless. I guess I'll have to try and get myself stuck sometime!

If they made a CVT for our Jeeps, I imagine it would have to be a much beefier one. For instance, the Subaru STIs have CVT transmissions and those things are putting out over 300hp and being used by fanboys as street racers. I have to imagine that they have some sort of a beefed up version of the CVT transmission in the STI to compensate for all that power and the way people drive those vehicles. Wouldn't you think?
 
Chris said:
I haven't ever gotten it stuck in the snow, but I've driven it in the snow storms we've had and it's never had a problem with traction or anything. So I guess I can't comment on that part. I just know that I love how the transmission doesn't shift at all and is completely seamless. I guess I'll have to try and get myself stuck sometime!

If they made a CVT for our Jeeps, I imagine it would have to be a much beefier one. For instance, the Subaru STIs have CVT transmissions and those things are putting out over 300hp and being used by fanboys as street racers. I have to imagine that they have some sort of a beefed up version of the CVT transmission in the STI to compensate for all that power and the way people drive those vehicles. Wouldn't you think?
Click to expand...

I didn't realize that STI's used CVT's. I might not be up to date on CVT technology. The last I heard. CVT's were not able to take a lot of power or a lot of stress. I read an interesting article a few weeks ago about a manually shifted CVT where the driver had a lever that would manually control the CVT. I think that a manually controlled CVT would be a great idea but I'm not sure of the implementation and potential issues behind it. If Jeep was to put a CVT in a Wrangler, I'm sure they would find some way to make sure the CVT is off-road ready. I'm just not sure what advantages Jeep would find in putting a CVT in a Wrangler.
 
jodomcfrodo said:
I didn't realize that STI's used CVT's. I might not be up to date on CVT technology. The last I heard. CVT's were not able to take a lot of power or a lot of stress. I read an interesting article a few weeks ago about a manually shifted CVT where the driver had a lever that would manually control the CVT. I think that a manually controlled CVT would be a great idea but I'm not sure of the implementation and potential issues behind it. If Jeep was to put a CVT in a Wrangler, I'm sure they would find some way to make sure the CVT is off-road ready. I'm just not sure what advantages Jeep would find in putting a CVT in a Wrangler.
Click to expand...
Yep, STIs use a CVT now.

The CVT would be advantageous for Jeep because it is able to achieve better MPGs as there are no shift points, it’s just constant. This is why most auto manufacturers are starting to use them now.
 
Chris said:
Yep, STIs use a CVT now.

The CVT would be advantageous for Jeep because it is able to achieve better MPGs as there are no shift points, it’s just constant. This is why most auto manufacturers are starting to use them now.
Click to expand...

Do you know how much better a CVT is when compared to an automatic? Specifically an 8 speed automatic? I'm not sure if the switch would be worth the trouble for Jeep. I haven't seen any SUV's with CVT's (correct me if I'm wrong) so I have a suspicion that there is some issue with them that we aren't thinking about. For example, can you tow with a CVT? I'm pretty uneducated about CVT's in cars so I'm not sure what the potential cons would be for a CVT jeep. Considering your experience with your Subaru, would you personally buy a new Wrangler with a CVT?
 
jodomcfrodo said:
Do you know how much better a CVT is when compared to an automatic? Specifically an 8 speed automatic? I'm not sure if the switch would be worth the trouble for Jeep. I haven't seen any SUV's with CVT's (correct me if I'm wrong) so I have a suspicion that there is some issue with them that we aren't thinking about. For example, can you tow with a CVT? I'm pretty uneducated about CVT's in cars so I'm not sure what the potential cons would be for a CVT jeep. Considering your experience with your Subaru, would you personally buy a new Wrangler with a CVT?
Click to expand...

Nope, I don't know. However, I notice more and more manufacturers are ditching automatics in favor of CVTs. Nissan has done it on a number of their models, Honda has done it on many of theirs, Subaru, Toyota, etc. So maybe some of it has to do with manufacturing cost, but I remember reading a number of articles pointing to fuel economy being much better on CVTs. For instance my Outback gets up to 30 mpg on a 2.5 4 cylinder. The generation before this that had the same engine but the standard automatic transmission only got around 21 mpg if I remember correctly. Some of that can be attributed to the CVT I believe.

I wouldn't buy a Wrangler with a CVT, no. However, I also wouldn't buy a new Wrangler at all, because I'm not a fan of the new ones.

However, if someone told me I could get a CVT in my TJ, I would be all for it as long as I knew it could withstand a bit off off-road abuse. But I have to imagine if the CVTs can handle those STI engines, they would probably be able to handle a Jeep. They'd just need to be a "beefier" version I think.

But the CVT in our Outback is amazing. You just floor it and it doesn't shift once. At first it's very odd, but you get use to it and it becomes so smooth that it's almost comfortable and relaxing to drive.
 
Drizit said:
Apparently the JL is just as comfortable a ride as any other SUV these days. I've not ridden in one myself but a few friends have and they all say the same thing. So apparently it is possible to make a solid axle vehicle ride just as well as an ifs one.
Click to expand...

Bingo, though I haven't been in a JL I've driven in my buddy's JKU & I really can't tell the difference between that & any other SUV as far as ride quality so that argument makes no sense to me, I imagine the JL is better still... if Jeep does scrap the solid axle I don't think it's gonna be because customers are screaming for better ride quality.

jodomcfrodo said:
How is it in the snow? I had a friend with a forester and it wouldn't climb out of even the smallest of holes created by snow melt (even in low range). The CVT would just stall out and he'd need a tug. He even got stuck in his own driveway a few times. I'm fairly sure that there was just something wrong with his but that has always made me a bit weary of CVTs.
Click to expand...

Something definitely sounds wrong with his, I just finished my 4th winter with the Subie CVT & it is hands down the best vehicle I've ever driven in snow/ice/ice covered hills... I have gone out of my way to try & find that thing's breaking point (or stuck point anyway) & it simply won't stop moving forward.

As an aside, I got a letter from Subaru of America about a year ago telling me that Subaru has extended the warranty on the CVT to 10 years/100,000 miles & it applies to certain models of certain years, apparently whatever issues your buddy is having may be widespread, & his may be included (covers 2014-2015 Foresters)

@Chris, the Outback is covered for 2010-2015
 
Westtown Willy said:
@Chris, the Outback is covered for 2010-2015
Click to expand...

Good to know! We've owned ours for a long time without any issue at all, but knowing this at least is nice.

I echo your sentiments on the Subaru. It's an absolutely fantastic vehicle. That AWD system and the overall performance of the vehicle is uncanny in packed snow, downpours, etc.

I certainly wouldn't use it for wheeling, but for exploring off the beaten path, I suspect it would do an excellent job.
 
Drizit said:
Apparently the JL is just as comfortable a ride as any other SUV these days.
Click to expand...

Just don't take it over any washboard roads, then the solid axles will become very obvious :p

Some of it is the way they make the new bodies on the JKs and JLs. They aren't just one layer of metal, there's two. It keeps the sound down inside the vehicle substantially, which definitely makes it quieter and more comfortable to drive.

I haven't driven a JK with let's say 37" M/Ts and Fox Racing shocks, but I have to imagine at that point it will become evident in has solid axles, haha.
 
We've owned several CVT tranny's and yet to have an issue.
Nissan even has a respectable towing capacity of 6500 lbs with the CVT equipped Pathfinder.....you'll likely see more vehicles sporting the CVT tranny.

Subaru in snow ? ...... a Rubicon would struggle keeping pace. Lol
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chris
derekmac said:
Are you sure about that? I know the WRX comes with it, but thought Subaru wasn't putting it in the STI.
Click to expand...

My bad, I meant to say WRX. The STI only has the 6-speed whereas the WRX has an option of the CVT or the 6-speed.

I've talked to a few people with the WRX equipped with the CVT, and all of them say that after they got used to it they really love it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: derekmac
Bird said:
We've owned several CVT tranny's and yet to have an issue.
Nissan even has a respectable towing capacity of 6500 lbs with the CVT equipped Pathfinder.....you'll likely see more vehicles sporting the CVT tranny.
Click to expand...

It's the way most of the modern vehicles are going. I think they're finding that it performs even better than let's say an 8 speed automatic when it comes to fuel economy. I wish I had a comparison, but I do know for a fact that more-and-more auto manufacturers are using them now.
 
Why are solid axles preferable to independent suspension for an off-road vehicle?
 
  • Like
Reactions: m9199
Top Bottom
Back