E85 TJ Turbo

[msoto]

Hello everyone. I’m new to the forum and would like to start a build thread for my 06 tj. I’m turbocharging it and setting it up for e85. Here are some of the progress pics I have so far. I custom built the whole exhaust for it myself. I am using 3.5” tubing and a borla muffler connected to a gesi cat. For the turbo I’m using a Garrett gtx3582r. In the pic you can see the header I built next to a jba header

 

[Squatch]

First off, welcome to the forum! Your TJ is a beauty. Always nice to see something that clean. And secondly, man...you must have some nice tools at your disposal! A waterjet: every garage should have one! And judging from the header and your plans for the turbo, I'm guessing this isn't your first rodeo. Again, welcome aboard!

 

[msoto]

Here is the exhaust I am building. I am almost done I just need to weld on the afr bung and finish the rest of the pipe from the muffler back. I used pie cuts for the initial bend on the downpipe. I also built a heim joint bracket to hold the turbo on not put stress on the manifold. The exhaust is huge in person.

 

[Squatch]

That is wild. Stainless?

 

[msoto]

That is wild. Stainless?

Thank you. I am excited to finish it up. I used stainless for all the exhaust.

 

[Brianj5600]

Cool project! What are your goals and how do you use your Jeep? What RPM do you expect to get into boost?

 

[msoto]

Cool project! What are your goals and how do you use your Jeep? What RPM do you expect to get into boost?

I’m thinking I will start spooling the turbo at about 2k rpm with full boost at 3k. The exhaust housing on the turbo is vband so it should spool pretty quick with the 4.0. The engine is almost completely stock other then a cometic head gasket I just installed. I am going to shoot for 12 psi with about 2 psi loss after the intercooler so the engine will probably see 10 psi. I wonder what’s the max psi I can run on my engine without blowing off the head gasket?? I am curious to see how much power I can put to the wheels especially since I will be using e85 “e54 here in AZ.” My biggest limitation right now is my stock nsg370 trans. By the end of the year I am going to build a low compression forged engine and see what trans I mount behind it. I want to test the limits on my stock engine first. I have a lot of plans for the Jeep coming soon!

 

[Snow318]

 

[Brianj5600]

Beautiful work! Are you on TTF? Screen name seems familiar. I plan to diy a turbo and will probably have some questions. The Cherokee crowd seems to be more adventurous when it comes to modifying 4.0s. The Wrangler crowd is more likely to use a Banks kit. It is a proven kit and I'm not knocking anyone that has one. I just think I can build and tune my own for less than 1/2 the price. Plus I enjoy it.

I was amazed at how forgiving E50 was in my 351w. I missed my boost controller setting by a lot, pegged my 15 psi gauge and 2 bar MAP sensor. That means no timing pulled past 2 bar and no data to tell how much boost it made. It was a blow thru carb and AFR was good though.

Are you going to use Hptuners or stand alone?

 

[msoto]

Beautiful work! Are you on TTF? Screen name seems familiar. I plan to diy a turbo and will probably have some questions. The Cherokee crowd seems to be more adventurous when it comes to modifying 4.0s. The Wrangler crowd is more likely to use a Banks kit. It is a proven kit and I'm not knocking anyone that has one. I just think I can build and tune my own for less than 1/2 the price. Plus I enjoy it.

I was amazed at how forgiving E50 was in my 351w. I missed my boost controller setting by a lot, pegged my 15 psi gauge and 2 bar MAP sensor. That means no timing pulled past 2 bar and no data to tell how much boost it made. It was a blow thru carb and AFR was good though.

Are you going to use Hptuners or stand alone?

I will be using hp tuners. I have a Diablo tuner but won’t be using it since the dyno tuner near me doesn’t tune using cmr software. He recently tuned a 4.0 tj with the magnum power supercharger and was able to get about 350whp out of it on 91 octane. It will be much safer running e85 since our Jeeps don’t have knock sensors.

 

[Brianj5600]

You might ask your tuner about the lack of knock sensors. If the PCM uses knock sensors on other platforms you might be able to add one or two. My tuning software has options to use knock sensors. I need to look at the pinout on my 04 and try to add a terminal, activate it and test it with a loose knock sensor.

 

[Chris]

Talk about cool!

I wish they sold E85 around here. I can't find one station in the entire state of Oregon that sells it.

Anyways, very cool, and looks like some very high quality work you've done so far.

 

[msoto]

Talk about cool!

I wish they sold E85 around here. I can't find one station in the entire state of Oregon that sells it.

Anyways, very cool, and looks like some very high quality work you've done so far.

Thank you. I appreciate it.

I got the custom brackets that hold the turbo using a heim joint back from getting ceramic coated.

I also started taking apart the grill for the intercooler install.

 

[Chris]

Thank you. I appreciate it.

I got the custom brackets that hold the turbo using a heim joint back from getting ceramic coated. View attachment 82519View attachment 82520

I also started taking apart the grill for the intercooler install. View attachment 82521

Wow, color me impressed!

I'm not sure if I missed it or not, but what are you shooting for in terms of power gains?

I've talked in-depth with a number of 4.0 builders (i.e. Golen), and they all agree, the most restrictive part of this engine is the cylinder head and the headers. If you can address that, you can get some serious gains from it. I know on a lot of the 4.0s they build just a big valve head with a port job, hot cam, and full long tube headers can equal 50whp alone even without a tune.

 

[msoto]

Wow, color me impressed!

I'm not sure if I missed it or not, but what are you shooting for in terms of power gains?

I've talked in-depth with a number of 4.0 builders (i.e. Golen), and they all agree, the most restrictive part of this engine is the cylinder head and the headers. If you can address that, you can get some serious gains from it. I know on a lot of the 4.0s they build just a big valve head with a port job, hot cam, and full long tube headers can equal 50whp alone even without a tune.

I agree 100%. I want to see what my stock engine is capable of with the header I built and then I will start building a forged stroker and see what power i can make on that. Honestly I have no idea what kind of numbers I will see out of it since most people don’t run e85 on a stock 4.0. Do you guys have any estimates as to what numbers I will make???

 

[Chris]

I agree 100%. I want to see what my stock engine is capable of with the header I built and then I will start building a forged stroker and see what power i can make on that. Honestly I have no idea what kind of numbers I will see out of it since most people don’t run e85 on a stock 4.0. Do you guys have any estimates as to what numbers I will make???

With the ARH headers (see here: https://americanracingheaders.com/collections/jeep/products/jeep-1998-2006-tj-4-0l-long-system) Golen was putting down an extra 20whp on a stock 4.0 with no tuning. With tuning I was told you could expect another 10whp more potentially.

That's with headers alone. Open up the head more (i.e. bigger valves, hotter cam, etc.), and I suspect you could add another 30-50whp depending.

The stroker would of course add even bigger numbers with the forged internals, E85, etc.

A stock 4.0 at sea level regularly puts down around 150whp on a conservative dyno. A 4.6 stroker with forged internals, head work, a hot cam, long tube headers, and tuning should probably put down an additional 100-125whp in all reality. That's really damn good though!

Add forced induction and then you're talking about the potential for 400whp on the same engine.

Golen has a supercharged 4.6 stroker that is built to the max. I believe it's putting out 500+ hp at the crank!

 

[msoto]

With the ARH headers (see here: https://americanracingheaders.com/collections/jeep/products/jeep-1998-2006-tj-4-0l-long-system) Golen was putting down an extra 20whp on a stock 4.0 with no tuning. With tuning I was told you could expect another 10whp more potentially.

That's with headers alone. Open up the head more (i.e. bigger valves, hotter cam, etc.), and I suspect you could add another 30-50whp depending.

The stroker would of course add even bigger numbers with the forged internals, E85, etc.

A stock 4.0 at sea level regularly puts down around 150whp on a conservative dyno. A 4.6 stroker with forged internals, head work, a hot cam, long tube headers, and tuning should probably put down an additional 100-125whp in all reality. That's really damn good though!

Add forced induction and then you're talking about the potential for 400whp on the same engine.

Golen has a supercharged 4.6 stroker that is built to the max. I believe it's putting out 500+ hp at the crank!

I will have to look up the golen supercharged engine. I’m guessing it used a carburetor. My intake manifold is limited with size of throttle body I can run so I’m using a bbk 62mm tb since my tj has the iac mounted onto the tb. I’m also curious how much power my stock ignition coils will handle. This is how the brackets hold the turbo in place. My injectors are a bit high for the power I will be making on the stock engine but I got a good deal on them and couldn’t let them pass. I will be running id 1050x injectors with all stainless internals designed for e85.

 

[Chris]

I will have to look up the golen supercharged engine. I’m guessing it used a carburetor. My intake manifold is limited with size of throttle body I can run so I’m using a bbk 62mm tb since my tj has the iac mounted onto the tb. I’m also curious how much power my stock ignition coils will handle. This is how the brackets hold the turbo in place. My injectors are a bit high for the power I will be making on the stock engine but I got a good deal on them and couldn’t let them pass. I will be running id 1050x injectors with all stainless internals designed for e85.

The Golen engine doesn't use a carb, it uses fuel injection.

It does however use the Magnum Power intake manifold, which is a beast. Check it out here:

Go to 14 seconds in and you'll see how large the intake manifold is.

The guy who makes those superchargers (he lives very close to me and I've been to his shop a number of times) also manufactures those intake manifolds. He has his own shop with a foundry and everything, and builds these things. That intake manifold as you can tell is noticeably larger than stock, and uses a bigger throttle body as well.

On an engine without forced induction, you actually lose power. However, when you add forced induction to the mix, you gain a substantial amount from what he and Golen were saying.

I'm not sure how much power the stock ignition coils can handle, that's a good question. Golen would know the answer to that for sure, as he's built probably the highest output 4.0s out there, and a ton of them too.

I'm assuming you'll be running a higher output fuel pump as well?

 

[toximus]

@Alex0413 Come check this out.

I wonder what’s the max psi I can run on my engine without blowing off the head gasket??

8-9psi is about all your stock engine can handle. After that you will need ARP studs which should get you into 10-11psi iirc. The HP jump from 8psi to 11psi hasn't made it worth taking apart my engine, at least for me yet.

 

[Alex0413]

@Alex0413 Come check this out.



8-9psi is about all your stock engine can handle. After that you will need ARP studs which should get you into 10-11psi iirc. The HP jump from 8psi to 11psi hasn't made it worth taking apart my engine, at least for me yet.

This is an awesome, high quality build!!! Looking forward to see what she does on the dyno with E85!!! The weak link on these engines is the factory head gasket to push it over 10PSI stock, but with E85 and the cometic MLS head gasket, you should be safe with 12PSI! ARP studs are always good insurance too!