Novak Conversions Jeep Wrangler TJ engine mounts

EV thread

Today's ordering = truck, car, SUV in package A, package B, package C. ;) Interior color option of gray, tan, black. :sneaky:

Pretty much.

Not at all. I just peaked at the Jeep website. Here are the options for building a Wrangler right now. You start by selecting one of these models:
1733515384703.png


And then, each one has an option list. Here's the list for the Sport S:

1733515163560.png


1733515215973.png


1733515247347.png


1733515277097.png


The last new car we bought was my wife's Subaru Impreza in 2021. It was similar, but I think there were only three or four models to start with, instead of 8.
 
Its established methodology - what's lacking is the will.
It's so much more complicated than lacking a bit of will. Believe me, every single person that works for a car company does everything they can to sell more cars. It's a very driven industry. It's a bit of an insult to simplify it to "they just don't know how to sell cars, and they just need to do this or that." They're not perfect, but they (the collective of the automotive industry) know more about how to sell cars than all of us participating in this discussion by a moon-shot.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pc1p
Not at all. I just peaked at the Jeep website. Here are the options for building a Wrangler right now. You start by selecting one of these models:
View attachment 577459

And then, each one has an option list. Here's the list for the Sport S:

View attachment 577455

View attachment 577456

View attachment 577457

View attachment 577458

The last new car we bought was my wife's Subaru Impreza in 2021. It was similar, but I think there were only three or four models to start with, instead of 8.

Jeep is better than most. Its a pain in the ass to have to navigate all the different versions to find what works for you, but over all its far better than average. You still can't get certain things without buying others, and/or something is dis-allowed because you didn't buy unrelated item X. You should be able to go through a checklist and select what you want, and let the computer figure out that you need a Sahara, or a Willy's or whatever, instead of having to go through several of them to find what you need. But on a relative scale, that's a nit.

In 1996 - a long ass time ago and things weren't nearly as bad then as they are now - I went to Ford, Dodge, and Chevy. I told them all the same thing: I want your 3/4 ton diesel pickup with all the heavy duty "stuff" on it, 4x2, 8 foot bed, regular cab, manual transmission. I want your best supportive seat, cruise control, and air conditioning. If it has a sliding rear window, that's fine - otherwise I'll after market it. Ditto for the stereo. I don't want "Appearance Packages", "Lighting Packages", "Convenience Packages", power anything or any other crap. Can you sell me a pickup like this? (Leather seats weren't a thing in trucks then)

Even then, Ford and Chevy said "No way", but Dodge said "Yes", with the caveat that I'd end up with a tilt steering wheel which is kinda silly, but whatever. Probably couldn't do that today - completely leaving out the lack of standard cabs and 8 (or even 9) foot beds. I'd probably have to get a "light duty" commercial type truck to get what I wanted without the bullshit.
 
It's so much more complicated than lacking a bit of will. Believe me, every single person that works for a car company does everything they can to sell more cars. It's a very driven industry. It's a bit of an insult to simplify it to "they just don't know how to sell cars, and they just need to do this or that." They're not perfect, but they (the collective of the automotive industry) know more about how to sell cars than all of us participating in this discussion by a moon-shot.

That's fine - BUT - don't tell me that it can't be done. We were doing it in the 80s, CAM, JIT, all those TLAs.
 
Zorba, for a male belly-dancer, the degree that your mind is closed on other topics always astounds me. And I say that as a forum buddy, not a forum butthole! How can you be so unique, yet so opinionated and unable to consider other points of view? :p
 
  • Haha
Reactions: BlueC
Not at all. I just peaked at the Jeep website. Here are the options for building a Wrangler right now. You start by selecting one of these models:

SUV in package...
1733519984747.png


Sure you can select a few options, but some of those "options" are mandated in a particular package, and not allowed in others, so choosing option X in package "C" might not be allowed. Also, only black interior. :sneaky:

That's the kind of stuff I hate about modern vehicles, and they all do it until you get into more expensive vehicles. BTW, $100,000+ Jeep is just stupid.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zorba
Zorba, for a male belly-dancer, the degree that your mind is closed on other topics always astounds me. And I say that as a forum buddy, not a forum butthole! How can you be so unique, yet so opinionated and unable to consider other points of view? :p

He's old and set in his ways, his weird, weird ways. I heard he yelled at a cloud yesterday. ;)

1733520585591.png
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: Mhass and sab
Zorba, for a male belly-dancer, the degree that your mind is closed on other topics always astounds me. And I say that as a forum buddy, not a forum butthole! How can you be so unique, yet so opinionated and unable to consider other points of view? :p

Other points of view are fine - but like much of the "modern" world, I simply refuse to participate in things that either have no value/meaning to me, or that waste my money and time. Smartphones are, of course, exhibit A, but car bullshit is a close second. It burns my hide that I cannot buy a new vehicle the way *I* want it. Between CarCo greed, government bullshit regulations, and effete Americans that go along with this crap there just isn't anything I'm interested in. I was an early - and enthusiastic - subscriber/reader of the now defunct "Automobile" magazine. I really enjoyed that mag - but in April 2016, I wrote them a nice letter explaining why I wasn't renewing. Wasn't their fault - but I wasn't interested in the rolling iPhones that cars were rapidly becoming. Totally coincidentally, 2016 was also the year I had the concept of "smartphone expectation" rudely brought to my attention.

I only speak for myself - and others like me (there are more than you'd think). Even at my age, I do tend to be somewhat of an idealist - couple that with old age and little patience for things that waste my money or time - and there are an increasing number of things that I just won't participate in - and Goddess help the asshole who expects me to because "everyone else is doing it." And that's OK, I didn't need "it" in 1978, and I don't need it now, so why should I pay for it? I'm very fortunate to be in a position that i *can* ignore this bullshit, many people don't have the knowledge, resources, nor desire to keep a 40 year old car running. Even that one has too much bullshit on it, which is causing many/most of the "old car problems" it has. But I do encounter people VERY frequently who don't want modern car bullshit anymore than I do - but they have no choice. As for smartphones, I'm now (finally) starting to encounter more people who wish they could get rid of theirs, but mistakenly believe that they can not. And a smaller number who actually have done so (cue @Chris ), and even the occasional individual, like myself, who never had one to begin with. But I've found that smartphones - and so-called "social media" - engender a kind of technological fundamentalism. Abstain or critique and the apologists come out of the wood work - often vehemently!

I'm "unique" because I avoid bullshit and make up my own mind about things, not what society expects/wants me to do. Above all else, I avoid people and situations that waste my money and/or time - and modern tech is mostly in that category. As I've said before many times, I've been using, programming, designing, and building (at the component level) computational hardware since long before most people had ever seen any of it, or knew what it was. Badly implemented, needless, expensive, useless, and especially poorly programmed tech is something I have no truck with whatsoever. Most of this code was written by code grinders who never saw the inside of a CS-101 class, much less passed one - and a lot of them work for the biggest names in the industry. There are times when I can tell you pretty much what is causing buggy behavior from an embedded system just by watching how it works and fails. Never mind latency, latency, latency EVERYWHERE. You show me latency in an embedded system, I'll show you poor design and/or bad code. As I also have said before - the crap coding I see everywhere these days would have had my ass getting FIRED FOR CAUSE. I could write code that outperforms a lot of the crap I see - using the crude microprocessors of the late 1970s. Because I was properly trained, and worked for a company that emphasized good design and correct software methodology. I'm not a particular fan of "C", and other ALGOL descendant languages because they enable writing buggy code very quickly. Don't get me wrong, a GOOD programmer and a GOOD C compiler can accomplish wonderful things, despite the horrid syntax, but those code grinders who didn't bother taking a CS-101 class will only generate undecipherable and poorly documented code full of bugs. GIGO always applies...

Now sometimes, I'll run into something that is actually well designed and well implemented - the automated kiosks at the med lab I went to this AM were fantastic. Worked really slick - I was quite impressed. Their touchscreens even worked well. Now if I could get them to install a shelf to hold my crap while I'm checking in instead of having to put most of it on the floor... (!!)

That's why I get grumpy when someone tells me that line item ordering would be "impossible" or expensive to implement. I was doing THAT before most had ever heard of it or knew what it was - I know better. I didn't write it, but I worked with those who did and I interfaced my code with theirs. It was as pretty slick setup for its day, and we were certainly "early adopters" of the tech.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chris
Other points of view are fine - but like much of the "modern" world, I simply refuse to participate in things that either have no value/meaning to me, or that waste my money and time. Smartphones are, of course, exhibit A, but car bullshit is a close second. It burns my hide that I cannot buy a new vehicle the way *I* want it. Between CarCo greed, government bullshit regulations, and effete Americans that go along with this crap there just isn't anything I'm interested in. I was an early - and enthusiastic - subscriber/reader of the now defunct "Automobile" magazine. I really enjoyed that mag - but in April 2016, I wrote them a nice letter explaining why I wasn't renewing. Wasn't their fault - but I wasn't interested in the rolling iPhones that cars were rapidly becoming. Totally coincidentally, 2016 was also the year I had the concept of "smartphone expectation" rudely brought to my attention.

I only speak for myself - and others like me (there are more than you'd think). Even at my age, I do tend to be somewhat of an idealist - couple that with old age and little patience for things that waste my money or time - and there are an increasing number of things that I just won't participate in - and Goddess help the asshole who expects me to because "everyone else is doing it." And that's OK, I didn't need "it" in 1978, and I don't need it now, so why should I pay for it? I'm very fortunate to be in a position that i *can* ignore this bullshit, many people don't have the knowledge, resources, nor desire to keep a 40 year old car running. Even that one has too much bullshit on it, which is causing many/most of the "old car problems" it has. But I do encounter people VERY frequently who don't want modern car bullshit anymore than I do - but they have no choice. As for smartphones, I'm now (finally) starting to encounter more people who wish they could get rid of theirs, but mistakenly believe that they can not. And a smaller number who actually have done so (cue @Chris ), and even the occasional individual, like myself, who never had one to begin with. But I've found that smartphones - and so-called "social media" - engender a kind of technological fundamentalism. Abstain or critique and the apologists come out of the wood work - often vehemently!

I'm "unique" because I avoid bullshit and make up my own mind about things, not what society expects/wants me to do. Above all else, I avoid people and situations that waste my money and/or time - and modern tech is mostly in that category. As I've said before many times, I've been using, programming, designing, and building (at the component level) computational hardware since long before most people had ever seen any of it, or knew what it was. Badly implemented, needless, expensive, useless, and especially poorly programmed tech is something I have no truck with whatsoever. Most of this code was written by code grinders who never saw the inside of a CS-101 class, much less passed one - and a lot of them work for the biggest names in the industry. There are times when I can tell you pretty much what is causing buggy behavior from an embedded system just by watching how it works and fails. Never mind latency, latency, latency EVERYWHERE. You show me latency in an embedded system, I'll show you poor design and/or bad code. As I also have said before - the crap coding I see everywhere these days would have had my ass getting FIRED FOR CAUSE. I could write code that outperforms a lot of the crap I see - using the crude microprocessors of the late 1970s. Because I was properly trained, and worked for a company that emphasized good design and correct software methodology. I'm not a particular fan of "C", and other ALGOL descendant languages because they enable writing buggy code very quickly. Don't get me wrong, a GOOD programmer and a GOOD C compiler can accomplish wonderful things, despite the horrid syntax, but those code grinders who didn't bother taking a CS-101 class will only generate undecipherable and poorly documented code full of bugs. GIGO always applies...

Now sometimes, I'll run into something that is actually well designed and well implemented - the automated kiosks at the med lab I went to this AM were fantastic. Worked really slick - I was quite impressed. Their touchscreens even worked well. Now if I could get them to install a shelf to hold my crap while I'm checking in instead of having to put most of it on the floor... (!!)

That's why I get grumpy when someone tells me that line item ordering would be "impossible" or expensive to implement. I was doing THAT before most had ever heard of it or knew what it was - I know better. I didn't write it, but I worked with those who did and I interfaced my code with theirs. It was as pretty slick setup for its day, and we were certainly "early adopters" of the tech.

You know who else probably doesn’t have a smartphone and never has? Blaine
 
You know who else probably doesn’t have a smartphone and never has? Blaine

I know he doesn't have one now, not sure if he's had one in the past or not. I figured out a while back that Blaine and I are an awful lot alike, which is why we grouse at each other on occasion.
 
I know he doesn't have one now, not sure if he's had one in the past or not. I figured out a while back that Blaine and I are an awful lot alike, which is why we grouse at each other on occasion.

I’ve noticed the same thing as well. I don’t think he’s ever had a smartphone. He doesn’t strike me as the type of guy who ever would either. Meet him in person and it becomes even more apparent.
 
Pot, meet kettle. Myself included. :ROFLMAO:

And we are all insufferable, as well.

I've come to realize I'm unbearable, I live alone, I work mostly alone, exercise alone, eat alone, and enjoy every minute of it.

Minimal interaction with people, works.

My girlfriend, who is currently on hiatus, tells me I'm controlling. That's because I do shit the right way, would it make her happier to let her fuck it up?

Generally speaking:

fuck off.jpg
 
eh, I just "built" a Mustang on the Ford site and the number of options were mind numbing. I think we have far more configurability now than we did back then. I think what Zorba is really upset about is the stuff that comes standard that he doesn't want.

Interesting , Take a quick look at engine options for 2024 Mustang vs. 1969 Mustang.

2024

2.3 EcoBoost
5.0 V-8
5.0 V-8 Dark Horse


1969

200 6 cyl.
250 6 cyl.
302 Windsor V-8
Boss 302 V-8
351 Windsor V-8
351 Cleveland V-8
390 FE V-8
428 FE V-8
429 385 series V-8
Boss 429

If the 2024 options are mind numbing , the 1969 options would lock you into an asylum ! ;)
 
  • Like
  • Wow
Reactions: BlueC and sab
Novak Conversions Jeep Wrangler TJ engine mounts