EV thread
- Thread starter Apparition
- Start date
It does. I wish the best for them, and I'll believe it when I see it. It makes a bit more sense than most of them - on the surface at least.
I've actually strongly considered doing an EV conversion on the TJ. Outside of its horrible aerodynamics, it's actually a pretty good platform for it.
A single 120-horsepower electric motor will easily out-accelerate the ~195 horsepower 4.0 I6. The manual transmission gives additional options for freeway travel and low speed torque. Regeneration of power while braking would be a huge benefit to efficiency. Not to mention the fact that all the accessories like A/C, power steering, heat, etc. can all be run for quite a long time without ever spinning an engine.
Add in a diesel range extender of around 20 hp or so, and you can drive for about 12 hours continuously without filling up or charging. You can even pull into a campground with a full tank, run the range extender overnight, and then roll out the next morning with a full charge. Or of it has electricity for an RV or something, just charge it.
You can charge it at home quickly as well. A single 100 amp 240 volt circuit is all you need for an 80 amp charger that can fully charge it in a few hours.
The biggest thing stopping me is the upfront cost. Unfortunately, EV conversion kits still aren't very common nor affordable priced, unless you're willing to use used Tesla batteries and motors.
A single 120-horsepower electric motor will easily out-accelerate the ~195 horsepower 4.0 I6. The manual transmission gives additional options for freeway travel and low speed torque. Regeneration of power while braking would be a huge benefit to efficiency. Not to mention the fact that all the accessories like A/C, power steering, heat, etc. can all be run for quite a long time without ever spinning an engine.
Add in a diesel range extender of around 20 hp or so, and you can drive for about 12 hours continuously without filling up or charging. You can even pull into a campground with a full tank, run the range extender overnight, and then roll out the next morning with a full charge. Or of it has electricity for an RV or something, just charge it.
You can charge it at home quickly as well. A single 100 amp 240 volt circuit is all you need for an 80 amp charger that can fully charge it in a few hours.
The biggest thing stopping me is the upfront cost. Unfortunately, EV conversion kits still aren't very common nor affordable priced, unless you're willing to use used Tesla batteries and motors.
I beat the calculations (as best I can) to death and on top of cost the killer is lack of room for enough batteries to be anything other than an around town commuter. If I could fit them there would still be the suspension mods to carry around the additional battery weight and who knows how that would screw with handling.
that's all I'm saying, and the Bolt was it, or could've been! If I could drive to my local Chevy dealer & pick a Bolt off the lot for 25 grand I'd buy one today. Though it lacked long range in its current form that's something that could've been addressed. Instead they cut & ran, just like they did when the Datsuns, Hondas & Toyotas hit the shores. My old man was a die hard American car guy like most people back then, though in the 70s following the gas crunch he sold his (what seemed like) 300 foot long Oldsmobile & bought a tiny little Fiat (we're Degos, he tried), complete piece of crap that thing was, and following a few years of frustration trying to work with it he switched to a Chevy Chevette, a little pitiful but very practical car & had GM stuck with it & continued developing it & other compacts we may have averted the total take over & domination by the Japanese manufacturers. They didn't, & maybe because Japan was a mile ahead in the development of compact efficient cars, American manufacturers just rolled over.
I think we're seeing history repeat itself here. The EV 'revolution' is a reset button in many ways, the sector is wide open for all takers to jump in and grab market share - the race to produce those "compact sized, comfortable, affordable long range EV's" you spoke of is on, no one owns it yet, there are clear EV leaders but no one outside of China is even going after that smaller cheaper sector. They will provide pretty much all the cars in their own market which is by far the largest in the world while also saturating Europe & Australia with them, pretty much everywhere but the US & in doing so they will dominate the world automotive industry for generations to come.
Meanwhile, GM's answer is to let that happen, all they seem to care about is producing morbidly obese over priced technology heavy bullshit most people can't afford or just plain don't want.
Brianj5600
TJ Expert
There are plenty of people that will buy full size SUVs starting at $57,000 and topping out over $80,000. The Arlington plant produced more than 34,000 in the month of March. The Tahoe has less than 60 days supply when they would want 100+ days supply. I would not be surprised if they target 120 days supply. It is odd to me that GM Authority reports 60 days supply is optimal for all vehicles. The news on days supply we always got at the plant was that the vehicles with the highest profit margin, especially when the vehicle is a hot seller. Time will tell if people want a $60,000 Lyriq.
I am guessing the Trailblazer EV and the Equinox EV will replace the Bolt.
I am guessing the Trailblazer EV and the Equinox EV will replace the Bolt.
At twice the price. If I'm gong to pay $60K or more for a vehicle, it had BETTER be pre-war!
Brianj5600
TJ Expert
You are not a typical consumer.
Acura ZDX will be produced on the same platform in Spring Hill.
Acura ZDX will be produced on the same platform in Spring Hill.
Brianj5600
TJ Expert
OP
Tyre-makers under pressure as too much rubber hits the road
California expected to regulate on tyres later this year
Chemical in tyres found to be toxic to some salmon
EV tyres could wear out up to 50% faster
LONDON, May 17 (Reuters) - Tyre-makers are under pressure to almost literally reinvent the wheel as regulators turn their scrutiny to tyre pollution that is set to surge with the rise of electric vehicles (EVs) and threatens to undermine those cars' green credentials.
When tyres make contact with the road, tiny particles are abraded and emitted. The extra weight of EVs linked to their batteries means this little-discussed form of pollution – from an estimated 2 billion tyres produced globally every year – is becoming a bigger problem.
Major producers, including Goodyear (GT.O), Bridgestone (5108.T), Michelin (MICP.PA) and Continental (CONG.DE), are also trying to fend off competition from cheaper Chinese rivals.
"It's not quite a perfect storm," said Gunnlaugur "G" Erlendsson, CEO of UK-based startup Enso, which has developed more durable tyres specifically for EVs and rents out tyres that it takes back to recycle at the end of life. "But it's close."
Tyre-makers are racing to get ahead of emissions rules and find alternatives.
Emerging research is showing the toxicity of tyres, which on average contain about 200 components and chemicals, often derived from crude oil.
While critics say tyres contain many toxic and carcinogenic chemicals, so far there is only really consensus around one - 6PPD, an antioxidant and antiozonant found in all tyres that reduces cracking.
This year, California is expected to be the first authority to demand tyre-makers demonstrate they are seeking an alternative to 6PPD - a degraded form of which is lethal to some fish and has been found in human urine in South China.
The European Union's upcoming Euro 7 emission regulations will set standards for tyres for the first time.
Compounding those challenges, manufacturers will need to develop tyres that emit less for heavy EVs, which Michelin and Goodyear have reported can wear out tyres up to 50% faster.
"The unintended consequence of electric cars is we'll have more tyre pollution unless we have better tyres," said Enso's Erlendsson, whose tyres, in testing emit 35% less than premium EV tyres from major manufacturers.
He says this is because their reliance on higher-quality, more expensive materials makes them more durable.
Bridgestone and Goodyear declined to discuss the industry's emissions challenges.
But Michelin, Continental and Pirelli (PIRC.MI) told Reuters they are pursuing alternatives to 6PPD, with Michelin and Continental adding collective industry action may be necessary to find solutions.
Asked about Euro 7 regulations, Michelin said it wants worldwide standards to squeeze the higher emitting tyres, which are usually cheaper, out of the market. Continental advocates a global abrasion standard with transparent labelling for consumers.
Nick Molden, CEO of British-based testing specialist Emissions Analytics, said the "dirty end" of the list of tyres the company has tested are "cheap Chinese imports" common in the European market.
The Chinese makers of Rockblade, Mazzini and Ovation - among the worst-performing tyre brands on Molden's list - did not respond to requests for comment.
"DIFFERENTLY BAD"
Data provided to Reuters by Emissions Analytics shows new tyres developed so far are unlikely to solve the problem.
For example, while tests carried out on Continental bicycle tyres made using dandelions show a 24.5% drop in carcinogenic aromatics - which help cars hug the road - the chemicals in the particles they emit are similarly toxic overall, Molden said.
"They are just differently bad," he added.
Continental said its dandelion tyres were developed to find a sustainable form of natural rubber, and addressing 6PPD was a separate focus.
"It's our responsibility to take care of this and to find a solution" to 6PPD, said Thomas Kramer, Continental's head of material wear.
Developed during the Korean War, research shows that when 6PPD reacts with oxygen or ozone it forms 6PPD-quinone, which has been blamed for mass deaths of Coho salmon off the U.S. West Coast.
Californian regulators say 6PPD's impact on human health is unclear, but are finalising documents that could require tyre manufacturers to analyse safer alternatives.
The tyre industry said finding a replacement for 6PPD is hard because any new chemical must prevent tyres degrading and cracking without affecting other attributes.
"Tyres are a compromise" between safety, noise, handling and abrasion, said Adam McCarthy, secretary general of the European Tyre and Rubber Manufacturing Association.
Enso's CEO Erlendsson said the industry could have a solution on the market within five years if pushed, though at a price.
REMOVE WORST PERFORMERS
Shifting the focus from tailpipe emissions, EU and U.N. regulators are working on Euro 7 regulations to curb emissions from brakes and tyres. EU lawmakers say they could be agreed on as soon as next year.
Particles from tyres are expected to be the largest source of microplastics potentially harmful to aquatic life by 2050, data prepared for the European Commission shows.
Michelin estimates that globally tyres emit around 3 million tonnes of particles annually - and create another 3 million tonnes of particles from road surfaces, its technical and scientific communications director Cyrille Roget said.
Michelin's tests show that if you drive 200,000 kilometres (124,274 miles) a year on its tyres, you'll emit about 1.5 kg (3.3 lb) of particles, compared to a market average of 3.6 kg, Roget said.
The worst-performing rival tyres Michelin has tested so far emit around 8 kg per year.
If Euro 7 were used to stop sales of the highest-emitting tyres, "you would already remove a lot of particles from the market", Roget said. "That's the first step and it's something we believe can be done more quickly."
Michelin and Continental said they are already focused on making their tyres more durable - Michelin cut its tyre emissions 5% between 2015 and 2020, Roget said.
But Emissions Analytics' Molden said the shift to EVs means tyre-makers will be forced to develop more durable tyres - a tough challenge without natural rubber, which would be difficult to develop sustainably enough to support the whole industry.
As part of its efforts to be as sustainable as possible, Enso has a recycling deal with Norwegian company Wastefront.
"The advent of the EV is the time to make this change," to improve tyres," Enso's Erlendsson said. "We're never going to end up having zero tyre pollution, but we can reduce it."
California expected to regulate on tyres later this year
Chemical in tyres found to be toxic to some salmon
EV tyres could wear out up to 50% faster
LONDON, May 17 (Reuters) - Tyre-makers are under pressure to almost literally reinvent the wheel as regulators turn their scrutiny to tyre pollution that is set to surge with the rise of electric vehicles (EVs) and threatens to undermine those cars' green credentials.
When tyres make contact with the road, tiny particles are abraded and emitted. The extra weight of EVs linked to their batteries means this little-discussed form of pollution – from an estimated 2 billion tyres produced globally every year – is becoming a bigger problem.
Major producers, including Goodyear (GT.O), Bridgestone (5108.T), Michelin (MICP.PA) and Continental (CONG.DE), are also trying to fend off competition from cheaper Chinese rivals.
"It's not quite a perfect storm," said Gunnlaugur "G" Erlendsson, CEO of UK-based startup Enso, which has developed more durable tyres specifically for EVs and rents out tyres that it takes back to recycle at the end of life. "But it's close."
Tyre-makers are racing to get ahead of emissions rules and find alternatives.
Emerging research is showing the toxicity of tyres, which on average contain about 200 components and chemicals, often derived from crude oil.
While critics say tyres contain many toxic and carcinogenic chemicals, so far there is only really consensus around one - 6PPD, an antioxidant and antiozonant found in all tyres that reduces cracking.
This year, California is expected to be the first authority to demand tyre-makers demonstrate they are seeking an alternative to 6PPD - a degraded form of which is lethal to some fish and has been found in human urine in South China.
The European Union's upcoming Euro 7 emission regulations will set standards for tyres for the first time.
Compounding those challenges, manufacturers will need to develop tyres that emit less for heavy EVs, which Michelin and Goodyear have reported can wear out tyres up to 50% faster.
"The unintended consequence of electric cars is we'll have more tyre pollution unless we have better tyres," said Enso's Erlendsson, whose tyres, in testing emit 35% less than premium EV tyres from major manufacturers.
He says this is because their reliance on higher-quality, more expensive materials makes them more durable.
Bridgestone and Goodyear declined to discuss the industry's emissions challenges.
But Michelin, Continental and Pirelli (PIRC.MI) told Reuters they are pursuing alternatives to 6PPD, with Michelin and Continental adding collective industry action may be necessary to find solutions.
Asked about Euro 7 regulations, Michelin said it wants worldwide standards to squeeze the higher emitting tyres, which are usually cheaper, out of the market. Continental advocates a global abrasion standard with transparent labelling for consumers.
Nick Molden, CEO of British-based testing specialist Emissions Analytics, said the "dirty end" of the list of tyres the company has tested are "cheap Chinese imports" common in the European market.
The Chinese makers of Rockblade, Mazzini and Ovation - among the worst-performing tyre brands on Molden's list - did not respond to requests for comment.
"DIFFERENTLY BAD"
Data provided to Reuters by Emissions Analytics shows new tyres developed so far are unlikely to solve the problem.
For example, while tests carried out on Continental bicycle tyres made using dandelions show a 24.5% drop in carcinogenic aromatics - which help cars hug the road - the chemicals in the particles they emit are similarly toxic overall, Molden said.
"They are just differently bad," he added.
Continental said its dandelion tyres were developed to find a sustainable form of natural rubber, and addressing 6PPD was a separate focus.
"It's our responsibility to take care of this and to find a solution" to 6PPD, said Thomas Kramer, Continental's head of material wear.
Developed during the Korean War, research shows that when 6PPD reacts with oxygen or ozone it forms 6PPD-quinone, which has been blamed for mass deaths of Coho salmon off the U.S. West Coast.
Californian regulators say 6PPD's impact on human health is unclear, but are finalising documents that could require tyre manufacturers to analyse safer alternatives.
The tyre industry said finding a replacement for 6PPD is hard because any new chemical must prevent tyres degrading and cracking without affecting other attributes.
"Tyres are a compromise" between safety, noise, handling and abrasion, said Adam McCarthy, secretary general of the European Tyre and Rubber Manufacturing Association.
Enso's CEO Erlendsson said the industry could have a solution on the market within five years if pushed, though at a price.
REMOVE WORST PERFORMERS
Shifting the focus from tailpipe emissions, EU and U.N. regulators are working on Euro 7 regulations to curb emissions from brakes and tyres. EU lawmakers say they could be agreed on as soon as next year.
Particles from tyres are expected to be the largest source of microplastics potentially harmful to aquatic life by 2050, data prepared for the European Commission shows.
Michelin estimates that globally tyres emit around 3 million tonnes of particles annually - and create another 3 million tonnes of particles from road surfaces, its technical and scientific communications director Cyrille Roget said.
Michelin's tests show that if you drive 200,000 kilometres (124,274 miles) a year on its tyres, you'll emit about 1.5 kg (3.3 lb) of particles, compared to a market average of 3.6 kg, Roget said.
The worst-performing rival tyres Michelin has tested so far emit around 8 kg per year.
If Euro 7 were used to stop sales of the highest-emitting tyres, "you would already remove a lot of particles from the market", Roget said. "That's the first step and it's something we believe can be done more quickly."
Michelin and Continental said they are already focused on making their tyres more durable - Michelin cut its tyre emissions 5% between 2015 and 2020, Roget said.
But Emissions Analytics' Molden said the shift to EVs means tyre-makers will be forced to develop more durable tyres - a tough challenge without natural rubber, which would be difficult to develop sustainably enough to support the whole industry.
As part of its efforts to be as sustainable as possible, Enso has a recycling deal with Norwegian company Wastefront.
"The advent of the EV is the time to make this change," to improve tyres," Enso's Erlendsson said. "We're never going to end up having zero tyre pollution, but we can reduce it."
OP
https://www.ratchetandwrench.com/site-placement/latest-news/news/33005341/toyota-voices-criticism-of-a-switch-to-bevs?utm_source=RW+Insider&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=CPS230519003&o_eid=0647B7562089H3E&rdx.ident[pull]=omeda|0647B7562089H3E&oly_enc_id=0647B7562089H3E
Toyota Voices Criticism of a Switch to BEVs
May 19, 2023Toyota Motor Corp's top scientist recently said battery electric vehicles alone cannot be the answer to climate change until there are more resources and infrastructure to support such a change.
Toyota Motor Corp's top scientist recently said battery electric vehicles (BEVs) alone cannot be the answer to climate change until there are more resources and infrastructure to support such a change, Reuters reports.
While certain investors and environmental groups have pushed Toyota to pursue more EV production, the company has stated that hybrid vehicles are more practical and that the sole focus on BEVs will cause people to hold onto vehicles that will release pollution.
Toyota Research Institute’s Chief Executive, Gill Pratt, said that while a complete switch to BEVs could be a net positive in a country such as Norway, which has renewable infrastructure, the same cannot be done in other parts of the world that are still reliant on coal. In these environments, he argued, hybrid vehicles are more helpful in lowering CO2 emissions.
“Battery materials and renewable charging infrastructure will eventually be plentiful. But it's going to take decades for battery material mines, renewable power generation, transmission lines and seasonal energy-storage facilities to scale up,” stated Pratt.
Meanwhile 80% of all new cars sold in Norway in 2022 were EVs.
https://electrek.co/2023/01/02/norway-hits-record-ev-share-in-2022/
Odd that their grid and economy hasn't collapsed.
https://electrek.co/2023/01/02/norway-hits-record-ev-share-in-2022/
Odd that their grid and economy hasn't collapsed.
OP
Not surprising
The Norwegian EV incentives:
- No purchase/import tax on EVs (1990-2022). From 2023 some purchase tax based on the cars’ weight on all new EVs.
- Exemption from 25% VAT on purchase (2001-2022). From 2023, Norway will implement a 25 percent VAT on the purchase price from 500 000 Norwegian Kroner and over
- No annual road tax (1996-2021). Reduced tax from 2021. Full tax from 2022.
- No charges on toll roads (1997- 2017).
- No charges on ferries (2009- 2017).
- Maximum 50% of the total amount on ferry fares for electric vehicles (2018)
- Maximum 50% of the total amount on toll roads (2018-2022). From 2023 70%
- Free municipal parking (1999- 2017)
- Access to bus lanes (2005-). New rules allow local authorities to limit the access to only include EVs that carry one or more passengers (2016-)
- 25% reduced company car tax (2000-2008). 50 % reduced company car tax (2009-2017). Company car tax reduction reduced to 40% (2018-2021) and 20 percent from 2022.
- Exemption from 25% VAT on leasing (2015-)
- The Norwegian Parliament decided on a national goal that all new cars sold by 2025 should be zero-emission (electric or hydrogen) (2017).
- «Charging right» for people living in apartment buildings was established (2017-)
- Public procurement: From 2022 cars needs to be ZEV. From 2025 the same applies to city buses
OP
https://www.wsj.com/articles/if-you...ssions-rules-california-auto-dealers-80fcba9e
The manufacturer of the Jeep (Stellantis) has informed their auto dealers that they are reducing the shipments of their gasoline-powered cars to California and the other "California States". Yes, Virginia, we are lumped in with New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Delaware and the other liberal-controlled states being called the "California States". The Jeep manufacturer, however, is increasing the shipments of their electric vehicle platforms which cost an additional $20,000! And they're just the first auto manufacturer to publicly announce the reduction and move to more expensive prices for new cars.
If You Like Your Jeep . . .
. . . You soon won’t be able to buy one, thanks to California’s EV mandate.
The manufacturer of the Jeep (Stellantis) has informed their auto dealers that they are reducing the shipments of their gasoline-powered cars to California and the other "California States". Yes, Virginia, we are lumped in with New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Delaware and the other liberal-controlled states being called the "California States". The Jeep manufacturer, however, is increasing the shipments of their electric vehicle platforms which cost an additional $20,000! And they're just the first auto manufacturer to publicly announce the reduction and move to more expensive prices for new cars.