EV thread

I buy cheap cars. My TJ is the most expensive vehicle I've ever bought by far, at $4500 seven years ago. I prefer to buy the (wisely chosen) $1,000 beater and put $2,000 in parts into it myself and have a good, reliable car that I know how to repair because I already did it once.

Meanwhile, EV batteries last about ten years, maybe a bit longer with severely reduced capacity, and cost about $10,000. Every car I've bought thus far, driving for about ten years now, has totalled less than that. Add up parts and tires, and you maybe hit $15k at the top end. Even if the car itself were free, and it would not be, I am simply outright not interested in owning a car that costs $10,000 in repairs every decade to drive, on top of the normal repairs it would still need being a car.
 
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Agamemnon said:
I buy cheap cars. My TJ is the most expensive vehicle I've ever bought by far, at $4500 seven years ago. I prefer to buy the (wisely chosen) $1,000 beater and put $2,000 in parts into it myself and have a good, reliable car that I know how to repair because I already did it once.

Meanwhile, EV batteries last about ten years, maybe a bit longer with severely reduced capacity, and cost about $10,000. Every car I've bought thus far, driving for about ten years now, has totalled less than that. Add up parts and tires, and you maybe hit $15k at the top end. Even if the car itself were free, and it would not be, I am simply outright not interested in owning a car that costs $10,000 in repairs every decade to drive, on top of the normal repairs it would still need being a car.
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Yep. The problem with EVs are the batteries. It was that way 120 years ago, and it'll be that way 120 years from now. Why these idiots resurrected a failed technology never ceases to amaze me - they would have been better off resurrecting steam. The True Believers keep talking about "better batteries" - perhaps, but at what cost? I'm skeptical of "better batteries" - show 'em to me, but until then STFU. I don't like battery powered equipment of any kind and avoid it as much as I can for that very reason. Expensive, unreliable, and a nuisance to deal with. Never mind the environmental and human costs of the manufacture and disposal of them.

With all that said, I've said this before, and I'll say it again: Build me a 60/60 EV using cheap, RECYCLEABLE lead acid batteries, leave off the bullshit technology, and I'd buy one assuming the price wasn't grossly inflated. 60 real world miles at 60 MPH.

Until then, I don't wanna hear about it. I've heard the same bullshit about "cheap solar" for 40 years. 30 years ago, solar was $10/watt, last time I checked its still $10/watt, although its come down a bit on the low end, less efficient panels. Cheap panels are coming Real Soon Now - I'm still waiting.

Goddess defend us from True Believers of all types!
 
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Hope their attention to detail on the product is better than that on the website.

'The Erevon Dashboard has integreated Speedomete' [sic]
 
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mxz800 said:
https://stabmag.com/news/e-bike-plague-hits-oc-state-parks/
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I could see this enabling a lot of "loved to death" areas around the country.

I'm still interested in an e bike or 2 though. I saw a bunch for sale pretty cheap this weekend, but the only 1 I really liked was $5,500, but it looked pretty off-road ready and it was 2x2, which seems very interesting, since I've looked at some 2wd bikes in the past and just running a wire to the front hub, makes sense rather than some of the other 2wd designs out there.

Solar has its place. I think it's great to have some panels to maintain equipment batteries, especially during the winter. I do like some of the Li batteries too, because of the weight reduction and often it seems you can get better depth of discharge without as much harm, but it seems like there's some substantial issues for charging in the cold. I need to do more research I guess. I do really want some mobile battery bank stuff, but the price for Li is just too much at the moment. Also it seems like there's too much demand at the moment for batteries to really make the pricing competitive, though I do think it's very close for a few applications. I think in the meantime, I'm gonna add some good ol lead acid for battery backup, which I seldom use, but they last a really long time if you keep them maintained without much use, but just relatively cheap insurance. Part of me does want to get a server rack Li battery ~$1,500 and compare it to 8 GC-2 batteries for ~$800 total. Since I want both more as insurance than regular use, I need to research shelf life a bit more too.

I want more solar, but I can't find a lot of great uses beyond what I've got and I certainly don't see a way for solar to pay for itself. I think technically a truly small amount of grid tie solar MAY be able to pay for itself. I'm really wanting to add a few kw and grid tie the panels, and I'll have everything in place to swap to off-grid if the need arises. In fact I'd have a battery backup bank that I would maintain on the grid or a few dedicated panels.

I do have what I consider insurance solar. I have enough that I should be able to keep a fridge and freezer and electronic devices charged up, but I trust my generators more, but if it can save me some fuel and noise, it's worth it IMO. I have a few off-grid uses at the farm as well, but mainly I just keep my solar stuff scattered and I kind of collect cheaper charge controllers that I can use in various ways to maintain batteries and in the event of something SHTF or long term power outage I can get all my panels together for my solar insurance plan, though I think a more decentralized approach might be better. I have a bunch of inverters and stuff too. There's some really exciting charge controllers I've recently started researching and though incredibly expensive, I think they've got the flexibility I want for some additional shtf insurance.
 
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I don't see this happening... when you can get a used gas car for as little as 2-4k, and there won't be a market for used ev, when the batteries are on the order 5-10k cheap. The price of the ev's will have to really come down, I believe the cheapest ev runs around 60k.....

Again Commifornia Demonrats acting without thinking... This is one of most poorly run states in the nation.
 
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Akitadog said:
I don't see this happening... when you can get a used gas car for as little as 2-4k, and there won't be a market for used ev, when the batteries are on the order 5-10k cheap. The price of the ev's will have to really come down, I believe the cheapest ev runs around 60k.....

Again Commifornia Demonrats acting without thinking... This is one of most poorly run states in the nation.
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If there's a ban on gas powered vehicles and we're getting to a point where many vehicles have to be fixed at the dealer due to proprietary equipment/software/regulations, I'm not so sure how the used vehicle market is going to do. Also we don't know what kind of regulations are going to keep coming from DC, which is more influenced by CA than anywhere else, so who knows if there isn't going to be more force to accept EV and I think we're going to start seeing more and more blackout/brownouts. Likely we're going to see spikes in a few vehicle models that can be maintained and due to regulations the EV used market is going to stay high, because you won't have much choice. Likely at a certain point then we're going to start seeing utility bills explode and there are going to be bans on EV charging.

The problem we see in the US is that CA is horribly managed, but that's where the Federal gov takes their policy ideas from at an alarming rate. The joke is that if it failed in CA then the scale was just too small and it will work nationally and when that fails then the whole world must adopt it. Mind you none of this makes sense, but this is about an emotionally charged cause and not about anything practical or science based.

I believe though the EPA was told they can't just start making up rules, I believe they were recently granted that authority through the legislature, so we very well may see some incredible policies pushed by that agency that will affect the entire US power grid, and likely not for the better. More and more we're just seeing gov agencies running wild and the courts are slow and soon I'm afraid we're going to have agencies cooperating and just saying you've made your ruling, now make us comply. Or they're going to do like NY/CA/Blue State when it comes to the 2A and just keep passing the same stuff keeping the courts tied up and just keep violating rights because they're violating rights with taxpayer money and no one is going to lose their job or go to jail for violating rights.

Personally if CA votes for this stuff, I am more than happy to let them endure their decisions, but we keep seeing that CA isn't content with failing alone. They want to force their bad policies on me and they want to do that through unelected agencies and not even the legislature, which at any point a few pages could be paper clipped onto an otherwise good law that will enact these policies and no one will know until after the bill is passed and signed into law. The gov has already shown that they're willing to make everything a crisis and they have no issues with restricting our freedoms which will be very easy when they can shut off your power and your bank account. They've already killed diesel and they're going to continually keep chipping away until gas is restricted and it's ruined as well. Let's hope there will be some sanity soon, but for the first time in my life I have my doubts.
 
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BugoutJeep said:
Let's hope there will be some sanity soon, but for the first time in my life I have my doubts.
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I fled Commiefornia to escape their bullshit - but it followed me out. I have always had doubts about sanity returning to that state - like I say: There is nothing worse than a True Believer (tm) of any sort - and that state is FULL of True Believers.
 
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Zorba said:
I fled Commiefornia to escape their bullshit - but it followed me out. I have always had doubts about sanity returning to that state - like I say: There is nothing worse than a True Believer (tm) of any sort - and that state is FULL of True Believers.
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This is the part that scares me on EV. I see a reaction by a few on the right where they say EV will never work, solar has no use, etc and the other side says consequences don't matter and EV is the only way, no matter the costs even environmental. My perspective with a fairly science backed background is in the middle and from a geeky side I really like EV, solar, etc, but reason guides my choices and I don't see reason on both sides. Of course 1 side is forcing EVs and the other just have a belief and aren't really forcing their belief, though they aren't enabling EV either.

I don't think gov is wise enough to make these kind of decisions and I think practicality matters the most and in this case I think the market would actually figure out the best configurations and methods, as there's a huge appetite. If you have to cut off the legs of other vehicles for a particular vehicle style to shine, you're not going to end up with a great product.
 
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BugoutJeep said:
This is the part that scares me on EV. I see a reaction by a few on the right where they say EV will never work, solar has no use, etc and the other side says consequences don't matter and EV is the only way, no matter the costs even environmental. My perspective with a fairly science backed background is in the middle and from a geeky side I really like EV, solar, etc, but reason guides my choices and I don't see reason on both sides. Of course 1 side is forcing EVs and the other just have a belief and aren't really forcing their belief, though they aren't enabling EV either.

I don't think gov is wise enough to make these kind of decisions and I think practicality matters the most and in this case I think the market would actually figure out the best configurations and methods, as there's a huge appetite. If you have to cut off the legs of other vehicles for a particular vehicle style to shine, you're not going to end up with a great product.
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Yep. That's why I keep saying - once again: Neither the Dems nor the GOP are your friends, neither has your best interests at heart. Both want to enslave you. But - again - most people don't want freedom, not for themselves and certainly not for others; they just want fair masters. Bible thumpers on the Right, Socialists on the Left, both bought and paid for by tech and Wall street. I want neither. Trump - although certainly not perfect (who is?) - is the best thing to happen to the GOP in my lifetime. Pence was a VERY unfortunate choice as I said at the time, and then that situation got far worse

Governments are evil, and need to be treated as such. A "necessary evil", but evil all the same. They must be controlled at ALL times - and ours passed out of our control decades ago, perhaps even a century or so. Neither the Dems nor the GOP will give us back that power - but people are too in love with their preferred brand of slavery to ever vote Libertarian (not necessarily the party of the same name) and for FREEDOM. People don't even know what freedom is.
 
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At our current trajectory, the Rush song Red Barchetta will some day come true. Hopefully I’ll be the old uncle by the fire side. 😬
 
Zorba said:
Yep. That's why I keep saying - once again: Neither the Dems nor the GOP are your friends, neither has your best interests at heart. Both want to enslave you. But - again - most people don't want freedom, not for themselves and certainly not for others; they just want fair masters. Bible thumpers on the Right, Socialists on the Left, both bought and paid for by tech and Wall street. I want neither. Trump - although certainly not perfect (who is?) - is the best thing to happen to the GOP in my lifetime. Pence was a VERY unfortunate choice as I said at the time, and then that situation got far worse

Governments are evil, and need to be treated as such. A "necessary evil", but evil all the same. They must be controlled at ALL times - and ours passed out of our control decades ago, perhaps even a century or so. Neither the Dems nor the GOP will give us back that power - but people are too in love with their preferred brand of slavery to ever vote Libertarian (not necessarily the party of the same name) and for FREEDOM. People don't even know what freedom is.
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I just think we're seeing the results of a population that doesn't praise merit and don't seek truth.

The politicians pushing EVs sound like they're in a cult. I mean there's barely any nuance when they preach and there's very little variance in the messaging, which mostly sound memorized. What they said yesterday also doesn't seem to be related to anything they're saying today.

If my choice is between not killing babies and ruining the economy and the energy sector and thereby ruining our ability to keep some order in the world which has typically tended towards war, slavery and tyranny and tends to get us entangled into war, I'll take that version of tyranny, which I've grown up under and my beliefs, which are not based in facts, but in belief, are from that mold and though my preference is hands off, we're currently in a cultural battle that we did not choose and 1 side more than the other has proven their thirst for tyranny.
 
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BugoutJeep said:
I just think we're seeing the results of a population that doesn't praise merit and don't seek truth.

The politicians pushing EVs sound like they're in a cult. I mean there's barely any nuance when they preach and there's very little variance in the messaging, which mostly sound memorized. What they said yesterday also doesn't seem to be related to anything they're saying today.

If my choice is between not killing babies and ruining the economy and the energy sector and thereby ruining our ability to keep some order in the world which has typically tended towards war, slavery and tyranny and tends to get us entangled into war, I'll take that version of tyranny, which I've grown up under and my beliefs, which are not based in facts, but in belief, are from that mold and though my preference is hands off, we're currently in a cultural battle that we did not choose and 1 side more than the other has proven their thirst for tyranny.
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BOTH sides have MORE than proven their thirst for tyranny - "Roe" proves that and may cost the GOP the upcoming elections because that issue alone has cost them before. With that said, you are completely correct - BOTH sides are cults, and I don't want any part to do with either. And with THAT said, I'll have to hold my nose and vote GOP as they "currently" are the better of two very bad choices. Choose your slavery, America. Choose your slavery.
 
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