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EV vehicle thread

Wildman

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Rant Warning.....

Too many OEMs end up getting sued for any programming mistake, even if the EPA makes the mistake, when they are being forced to neuter diesels. Obviously VW was tricking the EPA to make a better more reliable and efficient product, but I think Dodge had to spend a bunch of money on nonsense with the ecodiesel and I don't think it's clear that there was even a mistake made. The EPA tunes are simply horrible and it's just putting their thumbs on the scale because they can go after a minority of voters and the testing isn't even real world.

Gas in so many ways is a much worse fuel, yet they're so inefficient and have a crappy torque curve that the EPA is fine with them. Gas releases more VOC sitting in tanks not being used than diesels create in their ENTIRE consumption. And gas releases more VOCs from emissions than diesels. Diesels are so efficient that the EPA has forced them to be so detuned that the new designs lowered the compression ratios to further detune engines (I might be wrong about this, but I heard it from someone at Cummins unofficially, I wonder if it actually has something to do with all of the boost pressure), because too much efficiency will create NOx. All while emitting less carbon for the work they're doing. Even EPA MPG estimates are high for gas engines and low on diesel engines. They aren't a savior by any means but they're a tool we aren't allowed to use in the US and when I was looking at air quality data, it's kinda hard to figure out how these regulations are based, if it's not based on political science. And the basic fuel requires less processing (until it was regulated to process out sulfur) and issues about containment than gasoline.

The other crazy fact is that with mandated emissions equipment you get increased risk of fires and I believe there was some research (you can find a study to say anything so take it with somewhat of grain of salt) suggesting a single fire would be a net negative of all the emissions and yet combines and tractors and equipment will burn occasionally because of emissions equipment. That's a lot of diesel, tires, plastic, etc that's burning, not including the field that just caught on fire, because that flammable dust has to go somewhere and the EPA added a burner to the exhaust. Otherwise diesel is a combustible and not flammable so they have less fire hazards, until they are on fire.

Don't even get me started on the EPA and diesels. I had a 2008 Ram and that early EPA required emissions BS was a flippin JOKE. And what they've done to the aftermarket tuners and businesses is wrong in more than one way.
IMO consumers should be suing the EPA for the damages to those early emission vehicles.
 

srimes

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@BugoutJeep - I've been saying this for YEARS. Stop screwing around with inefficient gas engines with poor torque curves, stop throwing expensive tech at them to make them an approx equal of a diesel's economy, and make a damn diesel-electric hybrid. Maybe even a "series hybrid" without batteries - I don't know what the tradeoffs are.

The tradeoff with a series hybrid it that it'll get worse highway mileage than conventional non-hybrid.
 
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BugoutJeep

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The tradeoff with a series hybrid it that it'll get worse highway mileage than conventional non-hybrid.

I've seen a few articles with vehicles from Europe that got incredible mileage, but with this plug in stuff, maybe we will really need to dig in and see the specifics of how that's calculated. The other issue was that those were streamlined vehicles and they weren't doing much work. It makes sense that at some point, for so long you should just stick to diesel or maybe Hydrogen. Especially with diesel (I don't know much about H2), because they get more efficient the larger they are and they really seem to be more direct in how much fuel they use compared to the work performed. I read an article that said a Tesla semi would go 500 mi and a standard 1 will go 2,100 mi on a tank.

It might ultimately be that at this time if you need a tow rig, then diesel is just where it's at, if there's a way to get around the regulations on diesel. I really wouldn't consider EV for a tractor, dozer, etc and also because there's an energy density problem with battery tech right now and the foreseeable future. The volume of a battery bank, especially around farms where I can't charge something and they're a pain to tow, but those batteries would have to be massive and I'm not sure the batteries would like some of the jarring that happens occasionally as well.

The problem with these newer diesels in the US, that with all of the regulations around them, I don't think they make sense, compared to older models. I think you'd be ahead of the game to rebuild, though this may not be legal soon and I think during the 2010s there were some small commercial companies that were putting in older engines in newer trucks and that didn't work out legally for them. I think in general a lot of shops are feeling the pain of regulations right now. We don't do anything like engine stuff, but the EPA, OSHA, and probably a bunch of other regulators seem to be up our ass a lot more in the last couple of years.

About 5 years ago we used to have a local courier that had a ~90s Chevy with a tuned 6BT and he'd run that thing crazy. He'd get incredible fuel economy and the thing was never broken down. He just never had issues and he was racking up crazy miles if you knew his actual runs and not the logs he would show when pulled over. He was doing a lot of shady stuff, but he got stuff where it needed to be and he'd show up when called, though I think he's in jail now.
 
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BugoutJeep

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This is why I don't think the gas station model is going to work. Also it's even more confusing than this, because is your charger even there for whatever model you have. Will they have legacy support? Are adapters safe, etc.

This isn't condemning EVs, but we're seeing limitations with current tech.

I've said this a lot that charging, needs to be done in a way on highways and it should resemble being on a train and I think you should set your destination and sync into the line and then it should be like you're on a train from there on until you get close to your destination and you should be able to choose and pay for whatever level of charge you choose. I would think a special line of EVs could all sync together in a way to make interstate travel very efficient, but there's going to need to be like a charging rail or something on highways in an EV lane or something with some physical barriers of some sort.

Or it might even be some type of nuke/turbine powered "train" that can pull massive amounts of EVs and the EVs will have additional slight drag that on the wheels that recharges the batteries or maybe there's just some sort of connections, maybe wireless.
 

InOmaha

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That could have been during a CA blackout. Some areas of the state get shut off for wind and fire regularly. So maybe that was a run on the only charging point in the area.

We've had gas lines before, this could be the equivalent. But think of how long you may have to wait unless Tesla put a charge limit on the cars.

It speaks to the infrastruce issues. And as @Apparition points out, there isn't really a charging standard yet. There should be with no changes to the connector over time. Seriously, they are just jumper cables at heart. Otherwise, it could end up like the stupid phone chargers.
 
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TKFX

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This is why I don't think the gas station model is going to work. Also it's even more confusing than this, because is your charger even there for whatever model you have. Will they have legacy support? Are adapters safe, etc.

This isn't condemning EVs, but we're seeing limitations with current tech.

https://www.sae.org/standards/content/j1772_201710/

The charging system is pretty standardized. There are a couple different connector types but all of them work with the J1772 standard. When you go to a public charging station, they have J1772 connectors. All the level 1 and level 2 charging is done via a high voltage AC output. Its up to the EVs to carry onboard chargers to take that AC input and convert it into DC power. Level 3 charging is a high power DC output straight to the EV battery from the charging station. This is where the EV communicates with the charging station to tell it what DC voltage and current to charge at.

What are the limitations with the current tech you speak of in context to what you are talking about?

I've said this a lot that charging, needs to be done in a way on highways and it should resemble being on a train and I think you should set your destination and sync into the line and then it should be like you're on a train from there on until you get close to your destination and you should be able to choose and pay for whatever level of charge you choose. I would think a special line of EVs could all sync together in a way to make interstate travel very efficient, but there's going to need to be like a charging rail or something on highways in an EV lane or something with some physical barriers of some sort.

Or it might even be some type of nuke/turbine powered "train" that can pull massive amounts of EVs and the EVs will have additional slight drag that on the wheels that recharges the batteries or maybe there's just some sort of connections, maybe wireless.

Why do we need something like that? Current EVs have +200miles of range on a single charge. You charge your car overnight and wake up to a full charge. How often are people doing long trips more than 200 miles in a day? Most people do not drive more than 200 miles per day, IMO, not enough to warrant such a complicated idea.
 
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BugoutJeep

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What are the limitations with the current tech you speak of in context to what you are talking about?

They just aren't ready for long hauls or heavy hauls. Batteries are expensive, heavy, large, and every single day providers are trying out different voltages, cycles, configurations, etc as they're getting limited with current for fast charging. Batteries can only be charged so quickly before incurring damage. For replacing a sedan this isn't that big of an issue, but really this stuff isn't as flexible compared to ICE vehicles, especially with the limited infrastructure for early adopters. I'm not saying it won't get better, but for me and places I go it's just a charging desert or inconvenient at best. I don't go into cities, because I just have no real reason and I like to go outside and pretty much every path there's nowhere to charge and I really have no need for a small vehicle that's not off-road capable and any of those that are capable, the vehicles I already own fit that bill incredibly well without spending $85k. I can never make up that by charging based on my current and foreseen needs.

Why do we need something like that? Current EVs have +200miles of range on a single charge. You charge your car overnight and wake up to a full charge. How often are people doing long trips more than 200 miles in a day? Most people do not drive more than 200 miles per day, IMO, not enough to warrant such a complicated idea.
If I had to go to a customer's facility, I may have to go 400 miles or more possibly for the occasional visit and I would have to rent a vehicle if I had an EV. A lot of salesmen do a lot of commuting. A lot of service personnel do a lot of miles. Hauling requires a lot of miles. Vacation often requires lots of miles. When we go see family that's typically over 400 miles. I can't stand vehicles that are limited to 300 mi, but it would be different to plug in, however it would also lengthen our current trips, since I just drive straight through if I'm solo or we just stop occasionally when the wife has to pee or something. I don't like to eat big meals when travelling either and prefer to snack the whole way, which would add more time if I could even find a charger. It would suck though to show up on a trip and you're 3rd in line and pushed your limits to get to the charging station. If I was towing, how accessible is the charging station without having to unhook the trailer, which for my typical 7k lbs would be about every 80 miles.
 

Wildman

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I'd really kind of thought the new Harley EV bike was cool when it first came out but rode one and was less impressed. but then when you find out the range it's like WTF? So, I guess if I lived in NYC or LA or other big city and was a messenger or some type of thing this might be, OK?

What is the range of the Harley LiveWire?



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Harley-Davidson claims the electric 2022 LiveWire One has up to 146 miles of range in the city, with highway-only riding limited to 70 miles.

With a highway range of 70 miles, I couldn't even ride this to an appointment at the VA in Seattle.
 

Wildman

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70 miles would be perfect for my usage model. But my motorcycle days are way behind me...

BULLSHIT.... If I can still sling a leg over the seat then you should be able to also.

And yes like many other EV rigs we've talked about they fit for some and not for others.
 

Zorba

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BULLSHIT.... If I can still sling a leg over the seat then you should be able to also.

And yes like many other EV rigs we've talked about they fit for some and not for others.
I didn't say that I couldn't - merely that I don't wanna. Esp. in Florida. Glaring sun or pouring rain - take your pick.
 
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Wildman

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I didn't say that I couldn't - merely that I don't wanna. Esp. in Florida. Glaring sun or pouring rain - take your pick.

I call BS..... And you know what the maximum effective range of an excuse is?

That's like living in the PNW and saying you won't ride in the rain... WTF then when are you ever gunna ride? But I get it those skirts aren't really proper ridding attire, so I'll give ya a pass.

I have a ahndicap license plate on my bike and had some asshole once tell me if I could get the plate I shouldn't be riding.
 
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Zorba

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HDRider

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Esp. in Florida. Glaring sun or pouring rain - take your pick.

That is the truth. I recall my first trip down there. I stopped two or three times to put my rain suit on in the span of a hundred miles or so. Finally said the hell with it and just dried out in the sun and wind between showers.

Florida is not a good motorcycle state.
 
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