As long as it is a quality coating, not a problem at all. I’ve had ceramic coated headers on my 500+ horse power Hemi for over 5 years, and they still look the same as when installed.
Exhaust Coatings
- Thread starter Wildman
- Start date
As long as it is a quality coating, not a problem at all. I’ve had ceramic coated headers on my 500+ horse power Hemi for over 5 years, and they still look the same as when installed.
I thought so, but must
I thought so, but I must be missing something. Please explain.
I thought so, but I must be missing something. Please explain.
I've been skeptical of these coating too, but they do work. Even the Eastwood internal exhaust coating (rattle can) works. I had to put a new exhaust system on one of my old car a few years back, and I wanted an internal coating to protect from rust, but didn't want to spend $4-500 for the company to apply a coating, so I went the Eastwood route. Not long after installing these new pipes into my car, I damaged a section and now have a 12" uncoated replacement section. Out of curiosity, I hit it with an IR temp gun one day and the uncoated replacement section was noticeably hotter than the coated sections. I imagine the higher dollar professional coatings are much better.
I'll probably get that car out in the next few weeks. If I remember to do it, I'll get some pics for you showing the temp differences.
Is there something special going on here? Typical flat tappet cam break-in is just varying rpm between high idle and 2,500, so typical driving conditions, little to no load and no excessive heat.
Ring break-in, at least cast iron rings, require load and friction that produces excessive heat. I've seen glowing headers and paint fires with that one.
I'm not certain it's a deal killer is why I asked at opposed to just stating it, but running it at 2500rpm heats up the manifold pretty good. Normally driving down the road it would get plenty of natural air flow to cool it down. It won't on cam break in parked in the driveway. I noticed my header glowing orange once upon a time doing the break in. Several months later my cat disintegrated and plugged up the exhaust. Maybe coincidence? I think it melted during cam break in though. I would worry about the heat destroying the ceramic coating. I would say least point a fan up in there to provide some airflow.
Caveat: I have no experience tuning a 4.0L or a 4.6L stroker, and I don't know what the cam break-in procedure mentioned above entails, so I may be missing something, but I do have some experience with building and tuning other engines in my career.
Usually running an engine under no load won't cause excessive heat at the exhaust manifold because you simply aren't burning enough fuel. It's load on the engine (which is nearly directly related to throttle opening) that causes the engine to burn enough fuel for the header to glow. Two things I can think of will cause a header to glow under no load - screwed up ignition timing (usually retarded enough that the burn continues in the header) or not enough airflow through the engine (like from a clogged cat). When you broke your cam in, is it possible your cat was starting to fail, and that caused the header to glow, and also accelerated the cat failure process? Or is it possible your ignition timing wasn't right during cam break-in?
The only time I've seen headers glowing on a properly-tuned and functioning engine is under WOT conditions (or close to it). In fact, I've seen Inconel headers (a stainless steel alloy with very high temp capabilities) glowing white hot (beyond red and yellow hot) on a dyno - so hot that they started to get a bit translucent. That was a strange sight!
Running too lean will cause excessive heat too. Without knowing what else was going on, I'd bet that was your problem, and it did cook your cat.
Isn't engine tuning fun. Run it too lean and you cook stuff, too fat and you fuel-wash stuff.
It's certainly possible the cat was going first and that's what happened. That's why I prefaced my comments with not being sure. Most exhaust coating guys recommend the same thing as far as not breaking in a cam with a coated header so maybe I was just making connections that weren't there in my head.
This is true! However, in my experience, very bad (catastrophic) things happen when one errors on the lean side...
Well, all I know is I’ve put plenty of heat into my coated headers with no sign of wear. For instance: sand hill climbs at 5,000+ rpm sustained for a couple of minutes moving at about 5 mph. Is the cam break-in procedure going to generate that much heat?
OP
Cam breakin procedure :
Inline 4.0/2.5
IMPORTANT INFORMATION
If these guidelines are not adhered to it will VOID your warranty.
· Use moly paste on cam lobes and lifters. ARP, Comp, Lunati, etc.
· Use 6 quarts of 15/40 Rotella oil, VR1 Racing Oil, or Kendell Racing Oil AND 1 quart of Lucas Engine oil stabilizer or a zinc additive.
· Set distributor according to Mopar installation manual so that vehicle is ready to fire.
· As soon as vehicle starts – rev engine between 1800and 2500rpm and run for 30 minutes total.
· You may stop and check for leaks, cooling, etc.
· When you finish running it for 30 minutes, spin a new oil filter on the engine.
· Run vehicle between 200-250 miles. Then change oil. Use same type of oil for the first 1500 miles. We recommend a half a quart of Lucas with every oil change.
Here is Golden's procedure:
Start the engine and make sure you have oil pressure and a good idle for 15-20 seconds without using any throttle. If it doesn’t idle well, you need to shut the engine down and determine the cause of the problem before performing the cam break-in. If this occurs, call the Golen tech line @ 866-501-1242, Monday through Friday, 9am to 5pm Eastern time.
Assuming oil pressure and idle are good, bring the engine up to 2000 rpm. You will keep the engine at 2000 rpm for 20 minutes watching for oil or anti-freeze leaks, oil pressure, and ngine temperature. Also listen for general engine operation. The lifters may take up to 20 minutes to complete pump-up and during this time may make some noise.
If anything needs to be sealed or repaired during break-in, or if the engine overheats, shut the engine down, note how much time is left for the break-in, and repair the issue. Then start the engine back up and continue break-in.
After the cam break-in has been completed, you need change both the oil and the oil filter. After the oil and filter have been changed, you may then perform the final inspection steps in “Startup Guidelines” and further adjust your timing.
With that all said due to my intake manifold not sealing properly my headers got RED HOT. Now granted I only ran it for 2-3 minutes like this. I can't say what the long term affects this will have on the headers.
But I've seen this note on many web sites.
Warning. NEVER break in a new or rebuilt engine with ceramic coated headers. Excessive heat will damage the coating and void the warranty. When you break in a new camshaft, lifters, and piston rings, excessive heat is produced.
Inline 4.0/2.5
IMPORTANT INFORMATION
If these guidelines are not adhered to it will VOID your warranty.
· Use moly paste on cam lobes and lifters. ARP, Comp, Lunati, etc.
· Use 6 quarts of 15/40 Rotella oil, VR1 Racing Oil, or Kendell Racing Oil AND 1 quart of Lucas Engine oil stabilizer or a zinc additive.
· Set distributor according to Mopar installation manual so that vehicle is ready to fire.
· As soon as vehicle starts – rev engine between 1800and 2500rpm and run for 30 minutes total.
· You may stop and check for leaks, cooling, etc.
· When you finish running it for 30 minutes, spin a new oil filter on the engine.
· Run vehicle between 200-250 miles. Then change oil. Use same type of oil for the first 1500 miles. We recommend a half a quart of Lucas with every oil change.
Here is Golden's procedure:
Start the engine and make sure you have oil pressure and a good idle for 15-20 seconds without using any throttle. If it doesn’t idle well, you need to shut the engine down and determine the cause of the problem before performing the cam break-in. If this occurs, call the Golen tech line @ 866-501-1242, Monday through Friday, 9am to 5pm Eastern time.
Assuming oil pressure and idle are good, bring the engine up to 2000 rpm. You will keep the engine at 2000 rpm for 20 minutes watching for oil or anti-freeze leaks, oil pressure, and ngine temperature. Also listen for general engine operation. The lifters may take up to 20 minutes to complete pump-up and during this time may make some noise.
If anything needs to be sealed or repaired during break-in, or if the engine overheats, shut the engine down, note how much time is left for the break-in, and repair the issue. Then start the engine back up and continue break-in.
After the cam break-in has been completed, you need change both the oil and the oil filter. After the oil and filter have been changed, you may then perform the final inspection steps in “Startup Guidelines” and further adjust your timing.
With that all said due to my intake manifold not sealing properly my headers got RED HOT. Now granted I only ran it for 2-3 minutes like this. I can't say what the long term affects this will have on the headers.
But I've seen this note on many web sites.
Warning. NEVER break in a new or rebuilt engine with ceramic coated headers. Excessive heat will damage the coating and void the warranty. When you break in a new camshaft, lifters, and piston rings, excessive heat is produced.
Break-in of cast rings makes the majority of the heat. The relatively rough surface of the cylinder walls and ring face combined with the engine load needed to force the rings into the walls make a ton of heat. Glowing exhaust, burning paint and sweating owners are common in these situations.
I talked with Performance coatings about this issue and they said I should have the header coated after the motor is completely broken in. I would guess 1000 to 2000 miles?
OP
The only reason I was told that I could run ceramic coated headers during breakin was because I have a roller cam and it doesn't produce the same kind of heat.
You should be broke in by 500 miles.
OP
I just dropped off my exhaust system @ Performance Coatings.
$410 for the headers, Y pipe & cat to be done.
@cpwolf
If you're still looking I'll get a picture of the ChromeX coating when I pick my stuff up. Which will be in 7-10 days.
$410 for the headers, Y pipe & cat to be done.
@cpwolf
If you're still looking I'll get a picture of the ChromeX coating when I pick my stuff up. Which will be in 7-10 days.
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Ya that would be great. That way I will know what to expect. By any chance did you get any temp reading to be able to see the difference from before and after.
OP
No I never took any readings before. I only know that my floorboards would get HOT and could melt a cup of ice when in the cup holder in no time flat.
So I'm hoping everything I've done will cut down on the temps.
And my underhood temps with the V-8 & headers was very warm. Warm enough it melted the plastic pieces on the push-loc fittings.
What colors are you interested in seeing?
Also if you look on their website they explain some of the colors as far as ratings and thermal barrier.
I went with Glacier Black for the headers and Gray for the y pipe and cat. They are both rated for 1,000* which gives better thermal barrier than other colors.
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Glacier Black sound interesting. I am just starting my 4.6 engine assembly after 2 years of gathering parts. Probably going to use Eastwoods ceramic spray on coating on bottom of intake.
OP