Floaty suspension


twistableframe0

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So I'm starting to get more serious with my build. I went to Moab Utah last weak (had a great time) but compared to another stock tj, a stock jk, and another tj on 37's and coil overs blah blah blah my ride in my jeep seemed to be very very bouncy. A little over a year ago I installed a zone off-road 3 inch lift. within the first 3 months or so the front shocks failed so I replaced them but I'm thinking to just upgrade all the shocks to the highly recommended rancho shocks. I'm not sure if possibly the suspension is slightly under sprung because it's an lj with a just a normal tj lift? I understand it aint a cadillac I just want something more tolerable.
 

TheBoogieman

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Only a 3" lift with 33s on an LJ? Tire psi offroad? (very important) I'm guessing you got the Zone black nitro shocks? New shocks, a BL and airing down to 8 psi would be a good start.
 
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twistableframe0

twistableframe0

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Only a 3" lift with 33s on an LJ? Tire psi offroad? (very important) I'm guessing you got the Zone black nitro shocks? New shocks, a BL and airing down to 8 psi would be a good start.
When I'm off the road usually around 10-15 psi. Yeah they came with the black nitro shocks and like I said the front ones failed so they seem to be pretty junk. But the extremely soft/boaty ride continues on the pavement so I'm assuming its mostly the shocks. Mabey new body mounts but I plan on keeping her low so I'd like to not do a BL and yeah 33's for now. Next I'd like to do 35's and do posion spyders arched front fenders and high clearance rear fenders to fit the 35's under the 3 inch lift.
 
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Rubicon88

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Skyjacker Black max shocks.

No disrespect to the Rancho's but it appears you want something rather cushy...

The Rancho's are a 150 psi shock.

The Black max is a hydraulic shock.

By default the Rancho's with a nitro charge will be more firm.

The Black Max more forgiving.

We sell both, install both...nobody is wrong with what they like. It's your ass and back that's the determining factor.

A side note...the old skyjacker shocks didn't have the best of reputations...but the Rancho 5000 sucked along with it.

Old tech vs new tech.


Keep this in mind...

The Rancho 5000x with nitro charge is constantly trying to rebound. In other words it's always pushing up. Hit a bump and the springs compress...that shock is being forced against it's inherent direction. Then rapidly pushes back up working together with the spring.


The Black max on the other hand is not pressurized and essentially works equally in either direction.
It's a smoother transition from pre bump, bump, post bump.

Just remember there is no perfect shock for everyone.
What driver "A" likes will be different than Driver "B". Neither one is wrong. Just different feel between the two shocks.

Given your desire for a smoother ride I'd highly suggest you check out the black max.

Good luck.
 

TheBoogieman

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Skyjacker Black max shocks.

No disrespect to the Rancho's but it appears you want something rather cushy...

The Rancho's are a 150 psi shock.

The Black max is a hydraulic shock.

By default the Rancho's with a nitro charge will be more firm.

The Black Max more forgiving.

We sell both, install both...nobody is wrong with what they like. It's your ass and back that's the determining factor.

A side note...the old skyjacker shocks didn't have the best of reputations...but the Rancho 5000 sucked along with it.

Old tech vs new tech.


Keep this in mind...

The Rancho 5000x with nitro charge is constantly trying to rebound. In other words it's always pushing up. Hit a bump and the springs compress...that shock is being forced against it's inherent direction. Then rapidly pushes back up working together with the spring.


The Black max on the other hand is not pressurized and essentially works equally in either direction.
It's a smoother transition from pre bump, bump, post bump.

Just remember there is no perfect shock for everyone.
What driver "A" likes will be different than Driver "B". Neither one is wrong. Just different feel between the two shocks.

Given your desire for a smoother ride I'd highly suggest you check out the black max.

Good luck.
That's the reason I always went with the Zone hydro shocks before they discontinued them. Great on the street, but not firm enough offroad. I have yet to find a budget shock that does both well. You just can't win when you're on a budget. Differing opinions on ride quality don't help either. :unsure:
p.s. Even my Rancho 9000XL adjustable shocks were just okay. Luckily I bought them used with 500 miles on them for $80 for all four.
 

jjvw

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Skyjacker Black max shocks.

No disrespect to the Rancho's but it appears you want something rather cushy...

The Rancho's are a 150 psi shock.

The Black max is a hydraulic shock.

By default the Rancho's with a nitro charge will be more firm.

The Black Max more forgiving.

We sell both, install both...nobody is wrong with what they like. It's your ass and back that's the determining factor.

A side note...the old skyjacker shocks didn't have the best of reputations...but the Rancho 5000 sucked along with it.

Old tech vs new tech.


Keep this in mind...

The Rancho 5000x with nitro charge is constantly trying to rebound. In other words it's always pushing up. Hit a bump and the springs compress...that shock is being forced against it's inherent direction. Then rapidly pushes back up working together with the spring.


The Black max on the other hand is not pressurized and essentially works equally in either direction.
It's a smoother transition from pre bump, bump, post bump.

Just remember there is no perfect shock for everyone.
What driver "A" likes will be different than Driver "B". Neither one is wrong. Just different feel between the two shocks.

Given your desire for a smoother ride I'd highly suggest you check out the black max.

Good luck.
The nitro charge isn't why a shock is bouncy. Most of us can compress a 5000x by hand. A 4500lb Jeep isn't going to be effected by the gas charge. My Foxes have a higher gas charge and they are definitely not bouncy.
 
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Gollywomper

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If it rides like a boat, it sound like you need a bit more shock control. Blowing out front shocks is not that common. How are your bump stops? Set properly? There is a fine line between too soft and too firm with off the shelf shocks. Good news is there seems to be a few of the companies making an effort for better shocks for the weekend warrior/off-road crowd.
 

Rubicon88

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The nitro charge isn't why a shock is bouncy. Most of us can compress a 5000x by hand. A 4500lb Jeep isn't going to be effected by the gas charge. My Foxes have a higher gas charge and they are definitely not bouncy.
Did I state the Rancho with nitro charge was bouncy?
No.

Let me read my post again just to make sure.

Nope...still didn't see where I said the Rancho was more bouncy.
Matter of fact I think I stated clearly the opposite.
In trying to interpret what the OP means I just explained the difference between the two best.. IMO..(for the money budget friendly shocks) available today.

The OP said his was more bouncy. Ok. The OP also stated they wanted something more tolerable and referenced a Cadillac type ride...admitting not expecting a Cadillac type ride in a Jeep but something better than his or her ride.

Again... I laid out the difference between the two specific shocks that way the OP who knows exactly what they mean can make a good decision.

As far as you saying a 4500 pound Jeep not being Affected by a gas charge...uuuhhh...not sure what you mean there but you absolutely positively can feel a difference between a gas and hydro shock.
 

mrblaine

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Skyjacker Black max shocks.

No disrespect to the Rancho's but it appears you want something rather cushy...

The Rancho's are a 150 psi shock.

The Black max is a hydraulic shock.

By default the Rancho's with a nitro charge will be more firm.

The Black Max more forgiving.

We sell both, install both...nobody is wrong with what they like. It's your ass and back that's the determining factor.

A side note...the old skyjacker shocks didn't have the best of reputations...but the Rancho 5000 sucked along with it.

Old tech vs new tech.


Keep this in mind...

The Rancho 5000x with nitro charge is constantly trying to rebound. In other words it's always pushing up. Hit a bump and the springs compress...that shock is being forced against it's inherent direction. Then rapidly pushes back up working together with the spring.


The Black max on the other hand is not pressurized and essentially works equally in either direction.
It's a smoother transition from pre bump, bump, post bump.

Just remember there is no perfect shock for everyone.
What driver "A" likes will be different than Driver "B". Neither one is wrong. Just different feel between the two shocks.

Given your desire for a smoother ride I'd highly suggest you check out the black max.

Good luck.
Pi x diameter x pressure equals force. The amount of force actually working on the chassis is negligible from the pressurized shock.
 
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jjvw

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Did I state the Rancho with nitro charge was bouncy?
No.

Let me read my post again just to make sure.

Nope...still didn't see where I said the Rancho was more bouncy.
Matter of fact I think I stated clearly the opposite.
In trying to interpret what the OP means I just explained the difference between the two best.. IMO..(for the money budget friendly shocks) available today.

The OP said his was more bouncy. Ok. The OP also stated they wanted something more tolerable and referenced a Cadillac type ride...admitting not expecting a Cadillac type ride in a Jeep but something better than his or her ride.

Again... I laid out the difference between the two specific shocks that way the OP who knows exactly what they mean can make a good decision.

As far as you saying a 4500 pound Jeep not being Affected by a gas charge...uuuhhh...not sure what you mean there but you absolutely positively can feel a difference between a gas and hydro shock.

You are overstating the effect of the gas charge while ignoring the valving of the specific shock.

As an example, I know this from having driven and ridden Jeeps with 12" Fox 2.0s that have similar gas charges, but different valving. Which results in shocks that behave very differently from each other despite looking identical. Valving determines the ride.
 

mrblaine

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As far as you saying a 4500 pound Jeep not being Affected by a gas charge...uuuhhh...not sure what you mean there but you absolutely positively can feel a difference between a gas and hydro shock.
If there is a perceived difference, it is not from the gas charge. I can set you up with a shock that has 200 psi in it over the piston and you can blow right through the valving and bottom it out very easily. I can set the same shock up with 50 psi in it and change the valving so it will drive your spine out the top of your head on the same bumps. Gas charge has nothing to do with it.
 
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Gollywomper

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Most hydro shocks fade especially after a run down a few mile potholed trail with a bit of speed. Hydro shocks tend to “foam” the oil causing shock fade.
 

Rubicon88

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You are overstating the effect of the gas charge while ignoring the valving of the specific shock.

As an example, I know this from having driven and ridden Jeeps with 12" Fox 2.0s that have similar gas charges, but different valving. Which results in shocks that behave very differently from each other despite looking identical. Valving determines the ride.
If there is a perceived difference, it is not from the gas charge. I can set you up with a shock that has 200 psi in it over the piston and you can blow right through the valving and bottom it out very easily. I can set the same shock up with 50 psi in it and change the valving so it will drive your spine out the top of your head on the same bumps. Gas charge has nothing to do with it.
I believe the OP was talking about off the shelf out of the box shocks...no?

I didn't see anything from the OP indicating getting a set of 4 tuned and specifically customized for his or her rig. Matter of fact the OP hinted at simply trying Rancho 5000x shocks. Again I didn't see anything in there to indicate getting anything tuned and valved specifically for his or her rig.
 

Gollywomper

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I believe the OP was talking about off the shelf out of the box shocks...no?

I didn't see anything from the OP indicating getting a set of 4 tuned and specifically customized for his or her rig. Matter of fact the OP hinted at simply trying Rancho 5000x shocks. Again I didn't see anything in there to indicate getting anything tuned and valved specifically for his or her rig.
The reference to those shocks was due to mentioning gas charged shocks being stiffer. Gas charging of a shock has absolutely nothing to do with the ride. Ride is determined by valving. Hydro shocks are cheap and May ride ok on the road, but my experience with them is they don’t perform well after bouncing around awhile. Pressurized shocks perform more consistently.
 
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jjvw

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I believe the OP was talking about off the shelf out of the box shocks...no?

I didn't see anything from the OP indicating getting a set of 4 tuned and specifically customized for his or her rig. Matter of fact the OP hinted at simply trying Rancho 5000x shocks. Again I didn't see anything in there to indicate getting anything tuned and valved specifically for his or her rig.

What about that changes the fact that you are overstating the effect of the gas charge while ignoring the valving?
 

hear

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It's so hot when y'all argue about stuff.

The best part is that I can click on any random thread and watch it go down.
 
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Rubicon88

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The reference to those shocks was due to mentioning gas charged shocks being stiffer. Gas charging of a shock has absolutely nothing to do with the ride. Ride is determined by valving. Hydro shocks are cheap and May ride ok on the road, but my experience with them is they don’t perform well after bouncing around awhile. Pressurized shocks perform more consistently.
Huh?

I was simply talking about Rancho 5000x out of the box that has a 150 psi nitro charge being more firm than the black max which is a hydro shock.

That said the black max is eons better than the old school hydro's of yesteryear.

Again unless I something the OP wasn't talking about what "could be" as in customizing a particular shock. Just taking out of the box and going...and regular old out of the box shocks unmolested there absolutely is a difference in firmness.

Which one is better...not one person here can answer that question except for their own ride. Driver A likes something similar but a littke more "xyz" than driver B ..and driver C likes something altogether differently than driver's A&B.

What might seem like a tank or water bed to one driver might be a dream to another.