GMRS, HAM or neither?

DaveC

DaveC

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Gilbert, Arizona
This question is indirectly TJ related, and more hunting, hiking and backpacking related. I'm looking for a handheld radio that can be used in the backcountry to communicate with others in my party when hunting or hiking. We've tried a number of GMRS radios - you know, the ones that claim 30+ mile range - and none of them have been very effective the majority of times we've needed them. In most cases, we're separated by 1-10 miles in the backcountry, which means trees, canyons of various depths and hills or mountains.

I've read through the threads in this sub forum on GMRS and HAM radios and it's a little overwhelming, but from what I gather, it seems like anything short of a powered base unit with a proper antenna, there's probably nothing out there that will do what I'm looking for shy of delving into commercial units and licensing. Is this accurate or have I overlooked something? Hoping one of the many here with experience/knowledge in this area may be able to point me in the right direction. 🤞
 
Well I am no expert but the Beofeng uv5r is inexpensive and you don't need a license to listen. It is easy to get a license and they might provide enough range but 10 miles is very long for anything portable give terrain and vegetation
 
Scoutmapper said:
Well I am no expert but the Beofeng uv5r is inexpensive and you don't need a license to listen. It is easy to get a license and they might provide enough range but 10 miles is very long for anything portable give terrain and vegetation
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They're very popular but the range is a concern if they're anything like the gmrs. Line of sight typically kills any range with those, so I'm wondering how much better these would be since we're typically trying to communicate around mountains or between canyons.
 
Take a look at MURS radios. They are super simple, run on narrow band and a lower frequency range, and thus have better range than most GMRS units. You don't need a license, and you have 16 channels to choose. Stupid easy. Nothing short of illegal high powered CB are you going to get thru rough terrain, mountain ranges, trees, etc, to communicate. Only other option I can think of is Garmin InReach, or SAT phones.
If you do get into GMRS, you could set up your truck as a repeater at base camp, but that would involve some commitment on you and your hunting/hiking buddies to get a GMRS license to legally communicate.
 
bobthetj03 said:
Take a look at MURS radios. They are super simple, run on narrow band and a lower frequency range, and thus have better range than most GMRS units. You don't need a license, and you have 16 channels to choose. Stupid easy. Nothing short of illegal high powered CB are you going to get thru rough terrain, mountain ranges, trees, etc, to communicate. Only other option I can think of is Garmin InReach, or SAT phones.
If you do get into GMRS, you could set up your truck as a repeater at base camp, but that would involve some commitment on you and your hunting/hiking buddies to get a GMRS license to legally communicate.
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Good to know; hadn't come across anything on MURS, so appreciate the tip and I'll dig into it. (y)

I did briefly consider the GMRS with repeater/ base station, but as you pointed out, it's a commitment and frankly overkill.
 
Ham radio, 2m using an externally connected antenna to the UV-5R, a really long one that you hoist up to talk to repeaters. You don't want 70cm or gmrs, the range is going to suck repeater or not. If you use repeaters and you want to hike with what you've got you really can't beat that setup. Nothing is going to work in steep canyons and rough terrain except satellite. MURS is a good way to use 2m frequencies without a licence but without repeaters you are really not going to talk over terrain of any kind, you can't even talk over a small hill. You need a repeater up high for it to work. If you don't want to use an antenna like a roll up j-pole you can use a long whip, it works but becomes really dependent on a good repeater location. The Forest Service uses 170 MHz repeaters in the Los Padres area pretty much how I describe because it works, I think allot of the National Parks use similar systems just above the 2m ham bands for this reason.
 
pagrey said:
Ham radio, 2m using an externally connected antenna to the UV-5R, a really long one that you hoist up to talk to repeaters. You don't want 70cm or gmrs, the range is going to suck repeater or not. If you use repeaters and you want to hike with what you've got you really can't beat that setup. Nothing is going to work in steep canyons and rough terrain except satellite. MURS is a good way to use 2m frequencies without a licence but without repeaters you are really not going to talk over terrain of any kind, you can't even talk over a small hill. You need a repeater up high for it to work. If you don't want to use an antenna like a roll up j-pole you can use a long whip, it works but becomes really dependent on a good repeater location. The Forest Service uses 170 MHz repeaters in the Los Padres area pretty much how I describe because it works, I think allot of the National Parks use similar systems just above the 2m ham bands for this reason.
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Good stuff; thank you. By chance, do you know if there's any type of map/ listing of repeaters locations?We're typically pretty far off the grid, usually in national forest, but not often in or near national parks.
 
It can be difficult to find repeaters, often searching forums for trip reports in the area is a really good trick. Plenty of people are out there with radios testing stuff on their hunting/fishing/camping trips and HAMs love to share the info. I find local repeaters in my area around places I camp that way. You can also use repeaterbook.com but it's not the easiest thing to navigate.
 
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DaveC said:
Good stuff; thank you. By chance, do you know if there's any type of map/ listing of repeaters locations?We're typically pretty far off the grid, usually in national forest, but not often in or near national parks.
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There are repeater books sold by Amazon, ham radio shops, the ARRL, etc. that list every single repeater in the US. Complete with frequencies, codes, etc.. There are Apps available that do the same thing too, they can automatically advise you of the closest repeaters based on your phones GPS-provided location. I have the RepeaterBook App on my Android.
 
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Portable ham.. baofeng uvr 5.... has a couple miles at most in the mountains.

I tried using it in the sierra nevadas.. and it worked best compared to the gmrs and others... but still range is limited.

I was able to catch weather stations from a repeater tho.


In the desert... the ham portable has much more range... pair that with a vehicle antenna.. and you get much better range.
 
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For the terrain you're describing most radios will struggle, a repeater (+handhelds, or even better mounted radios) is pretty much the best option (and even then you will find spots without coverage unless you get the repeater sufficiently high, like in a weather balloon).
 
Jerry Bransford said:
Use a repeater and eliminate range issues.
rasband said:
For the terrain you're describing most radios will struggle, a repeater is pretty much the best option (and even then you will find spots without coverage unless you get the repeater sufficiently high, like in a weather balloon).
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Jerry Bransford said:
Use a repeater and eliminate range issues.
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I think this is going to be the challenge; with the type of terrain we're in, reaching a repeater may be a challenge to begin with.
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The worse the terrain the more likely you'll have a repeater in range. Mountains and hills attract repeaters like honey attracts flies. And the worse the terrain the more you need a repeater since VHF/UHF signals operate strictly line-of-sight.
 
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Jerry Bransford said:
The worse the terrain the more likely you'll have a repeater in range. Mountains and hills attract repeaters like honey attracts flies. And the worse the terrain the more you need a repeater since VHF/UHF signals operate strictly line-of-sight.
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This is good to know and I appreciate the insight. My comments were with regard to buying a 'base' repeater unit and the challenges in getting it up high enough to be effective (not to mention the fact we're constantly on the move) - this is all foreign to me.

Sounds like it may be worth grabbing one of the guides referenced to see where existing repeaters may already be relative to the areas we'd be in since the official/permanent ones like that would likely be a better (and maybe more accessible) resource than trying to use a portable base unit. (y)
 
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@Jerry Bransford

I still have a lot to learn bout ham radios.

Looking at this map.... how would a ham radio work on the repeater in bishop? Does my experience below sound about right?

There were a couple mtn ranges in between... and i was higher in elevation. Had spotty reception with the bishop receiver... but made it work... recieved weather reports.

Ham did work to another ham for 5 miles or so.

I was in the north palisade area... using a baofeng uvr 5 and a whip attenna.

20210901_162254.jpg
 
For your hunting here is another possible option. You would need to have a mobile in a vehicle that is on a high point and then you can do a cross band repeater with you mobile and hand held unit. I have a Yaseu 8900R in my Truck and can use that with a hand held unit in the field to communicate when I am in a valley where I could not hit the repeater. I have not tried this with multiple hand held radios but I have been able to hit local repeaters that I could not have reached from the valley. It may be possible to use multiple radios when you hunting with your buddies but you will need to do a little more research. Check out this video for a little explanation of how it functions.

 
Ironman said:
For your hunting here is another possible option. You would need to have a mobile in a vehicle that is on a high point and then you can do a cross band repeater with you mobile and hand held unit. I have a Yaseu 8900R in my Truck and can use that with a hand held unit in the field to communicate when I am in a valley where I could not hit the repeater. I have not tried this with multiple hand held radios but I have been able to hit local repeaters that I could not have reached from the valley. It may be possible to use multiple radios when you hunting with your buddies but you will need to do a little more research. Check out this video for a little explanation of how it functions.

Click to expand...
Good stuff. I'll definitely check it out. Thanks!👍
 
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